A "loaded" boxcar

[anb740]

I took this photograph of a non-railroad owned boxcar tacked onto the rear of a train that shall remain unidentified. (for obvious reasons)

http://anb740.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=51972

For the worriers among us, the date and location noted on the photograph are incorrect on purpose, and the car number is untraceable.

anb740

[railman]

When my grandfather worked in the Milwaukee Rd police department, they worked with the "powers that be" when cars like this came through. Their movements were obviously kept quiet, even in the 1970's.

Not this car in particular, obviously. "Cars like this" is a reference to the whole genre of "special" cars.

[vsmith]

For us non-railfan junkies, whats the significance, is this a weapons carrier or something along those lines, (nuke?) Whats the hush-hush, if the "powers that be" were stupid enough to leave it in plain sight on a siding, whats the harm in photoing it as a legitimate railfan photo? Oh..National Security? Patriot Act? ...see my comment above above "Stupid enough to....."

[DPD1]

That would make an interesting model. I wonder which company made that car (or cars) for them. It obviously looks quite sturdy.

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[railman]

could be anything in there...my grandfather's beat, they would have a lot of ammunition and such from the plant in the northern metro, hazardous waste, pretty much anything the DOD wanted to put into a boxcar like that....it really could be the general's furniture for all we know...but then again, we don't.

Cars that had cargo that was "special" were marked on paper, if I recall (from his recollections) , so railroad detectives knew if they were in the yard, (and to watch them closer.)

[anb740]

These cars were actually designed to transport Trident Rocket booster sections from the West Coast to the East Coast. The placard # denotes a Class A explosive....the worst kind available. In other words, you do NOT want this thing to derail! For more info, check out this PDF document to learn more on the details of our fair govt's declassified secrets. (I'm surprised there wasn't a mysterious black helicopter following this thing! LOL)

http://www.plrc.org/docs/000612.pdf

anb740

[railman]

I won't even ask where you found links like that...(-:

[Overmod]

Hey, that car's interesting because it has full-height end doors. Remember the thread about the 'exhibition car' -- this is the sort of end doors I was describing for the scenery cars.

Note also the substantial framing in the car sides, .

I don't see evidence of the usual security provided with nuclear material (and, although the door at the left end of the car in the picture is for 'man access', it's unlikely that a plug mechanism would be used with people inside!) It appears that there's a flat tank, presumably for fuel (judging by what appears to be a filler). It would have been 'nice' to see the 'hazmat' placards up close, and to see what the underframe carries on the other side of the car... compressor etc. for controlled-environment, I'd guess. The trucks are interesting.

My guess would be missile or booster components, NOT explosives. Nukes invariably travel in two or more physically separate vehicles (which don't look like this car anyway)

In case anyone's interested in these cars and their handling in general:

www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r56_3.pdf

[JoeKoh]

Wow! nice picture.
stay safe
Joe

[anb740]

The fuel tank underneath is for the refrigeration unit to keep the car's contents cool. It's also supposed to have an alarm for intrusion and thicker walls for obvious protection against derailments.

[espeefoamer]

Is this one of those boxcars with shackles?

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Is this one of those boxcars with shackles?

just HAD to bring that back up, didn't you! [:D]

[Anonymous]

How did you take this photo? Were you not being watched? Why the end of a train? I would think it would be safer in the middle somewhere. Harder to find.

Nice photo.

[anb740]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

How did you take this photo? Were you not being watched? Why the end of a train? I would think it would be safer in the middle somewhere. Harder to find.

Nice photo.

Truth be known, this was the second attempt to catch it....on the first attempt, I merely saw it, and chased it to the next vantage point to actually photograph it. (I'm sure the train crew was getting a bit worried! LOL) These things used to run with an old caboose trailing loaded with MP's and other officials. The reasoning behind putting it on the rear of the train was supposedly to minimize any effects a head-on collision or other head-of-train derailment might have....don't guess they're smart enough to figure on a rear-end collision!

anb740
PS-no one was watching........what's that...........oh, here comes the FBI knocking on the door! [:D]

[Anonymous]

I suppose they don't want that one being kicked around in the yard. [:O]

[anb740]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

I suppose they don't want that one being kicked around in the yard. [:O]

Ya know, I couldn't find a single, discernable "Do not hump" sign anywhere on the car. However, anyone who has common sense should think twice about bumping a car like this around! [banghead]

[Anonymous]

That car is very well armored too. I recall a article about this design. No worries.

[MP57313]

Nice picture. I see DODX cars around here but they don't look like this one.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Is this one of those boxcars with shackles?

just HAD to bring that back up, didn't you! [:D]

He just beat me to it....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by anb740

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

How did you take this photo? Were you not being watched? Why the end of a train? I would think it would be safer in the middle somewhere. Harder to find.

Nice photo.

Truth be known, this was the second attempt to catch it....on the first attempt, I merely saw it, and chased it to the next vantage point to actually photograph it. (I'm sure the train crew was getting a bit worried! LOL) These things used to run with an old caboose trailing loaded with MP's and other officials. The reasoning behind putting it on the rear of the train was supposedly to minimize any effects a head-on collision or other head-of-train derailment might have....don't guess they're smart enough to figure on a rear-end collision!

anb740
PS-no one was watching........what's that...........oh, here comes the FBI knocking on the door! [:D]

Maybe it was empty and just heading home.

[adrianspeeder]

This has "hollywood train movie" written all over it.

Hijackers uncouple the car and cut the air hose so the train wouldnt have breaks. The kindly old engineer tries the dynamics and yells "the main flux capacator bus bars melted, were gonna hit deadmans curve at 200mph" then a goofy hero saves the good lookin girl , but screws the train and any town that is distroyed along with it. In the end, steven segal busts some heads and shoots all the terrorists.

Man i need some sleep

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

This has "hollywood train movie" written all over it.

Hijackers uncouple the car and cut the air hose so the train wouldnt have breaks. The kindly old engineer tries the dynamics and yells "the main flux capacator bus bars melted, were gonna hit deadmans curve at 200mph" then a goofy hero saves the good lookin girl , but screws the train and any town that is distroyed along with it. In the end, steven segal busts some heads and shoots all the terrorists.

Man i need some sleep

Adrianspeeder

That idea sounds so stupid that it would probably be a huge hit and make millions! Have you considered becoming a Hollywood director?

[espeefoamer]

There are two diamond shaped plackards on the car, one orange and one white.I'm not sure what orange means,but white usually means corrosive.There is something really nasty in that car[:0].

[pat390]

Wow its just as bad if not much worse then the stocked trains of liquified petroleum gas that go thorough my town every day

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

There are two diamond shaped plackards on the car, one orange and one white.I'm not sure what orange means,but white usually means corrosive.There is something really nasty in that car[:0].

Black and white is corrosive. White is poisonous or hot.

[anb740]

The orange placard denotes a hazardous explosive (Trident rocket booster segment full of fuel). The white placard # denotes that it's a class A explosive....just imagine a smaller version of Hiroshima without the radiation. And yours truly was dumb enough to stand 40' away watching it go by!


anb740

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by anb740

The orange placard denotes a hazardous explosive (Trident rocket booster segment full of fuel). The white placard # denotes that it's a class A explosive....just imagine a smaller version of Hiroshima without the radiation. And yours truly was dumb enough to stand 40' away watching it go by!


anb740

Now I am really curious. Why would you ship the rocket with fuel in it? Wouldn't it be a whole lot safer to ship it empty and fuel it at its destination? (You can tell I know zip about rockets!)

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Now I am really curious. Why would you ship the rocket with fuel in it? Wouldn't it be a whole lot safer to ship it empty and fuel it at its destination? (You can tell I know zip about rockets!)

Some rockets (and I'd have to look up the Tridents to be sure about them) have solid fuel - hard to install at the launch site. One example is the boosters on the Space Shuttle. Essentially, they take the rocket body and fill it up with the fuel, much the same way as you'd pour wax into a candle mold. They operate very much the same as the model rockets you can get at your local hobby shop.

Liquid fueled rockets are filled at the launch site. Some of the components are very nasty.

[Overmod]

All Tridents, being submarine missiles, are of course solid fuel (the term SRBs for these boosters is common). There were some experiments with liquid-fueled sub missiles, but they are NOT a good idea, particularly those with hypergolic propellants...

The "Class A explosive" on these is generally ammonium perchlorate, which is mixed with aluminum powder and a rubber-like binder and then molded accordingly. This is not 'nasty' stuff in the usual sense of the word, probably far less dangerous (in ordinary transport) than alternatives including LOX, red fuming nitric acid (or other acids of required concentration), hydrazines, etc. Even some of the logical accelerators for fast-burn SRB boosters (which may be 'back in play' for BMD) involve comparatively stable materials.

Now, I have seen film of a detonation at a perchlorate plant in the Las Vegas area which caught fire, but that only occurred after prolonged cookoff and possibly other temperature-related compression effects. I would not expect any sort of spontaneous ignition, even if the HVAC system were to go out, and the system of shock webbing that supports the segments inside the car is specially intended to avoid any sharp impacts. I'd be no more nervous around that car than around many other chemical carriers, some of which look surprisingly benign but in accidents can cause problems (consider the 'accelerant' in the Flixborough explosion!)

In case of severe wreck, yes, I might want to be elsewhere -- but even prompt detonation of the entire booster motor, which is highly unlikely compared to progressive 'deflagration' (meaning that it goes off acting as a rocket motor), is far from a Hiroshima-type blast. As far as 'truth in labeling', I'd want the car placarded as dangerous because that's fair to fire and rescue personnel ... but I also wouldn't go running in terror to get outside a quarter-mile imaginary blast radius either.

I am usually somewhat skeptical of the danger claims made by 'green' websites (my apologies to true greens about this characterization!) which often invoke a kind of Art Bell (my apologies to true Art Bell) atmosphere of nameless conspiracy and terrible danger to, essentially, scare people into opposing missile development and logistics programs. While it's sometimes fun to speculate on black projects, secret shackles, etc., it is a bit easy to go too far into paranoia... and start to believe it yourself.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Now, I have seen film of a detonation at a perchlorate plant in the Las Vegas area which caught fire, but that only occurred after prolonged cookoff and possibly other temperature-related compression effects.

The History Channel had that on last night (Engineering Disasters 8).