Murphy SidingI dunno.... I've never read a good article about trains written by Shakespeare.
I was going to provide an example, along the lines of the International Imitation Hemingway Competition, but will forbear for the moment.
On the other hand, consider Pope, in The Rape of the Lock, providing the epigram for the Zephyr (which seems to have eluded most of the people who claim they know where the name came from...)
Personally, I'd like to see articles about trains written in the style of John Steinbeck.
I enjoy both columnists. As others have said, it's kinda like comparing apples and oranges. I wonder if there is room for a third columnist though, to talk about some of the things Mr. Phillips and Mr. Frailey don't mention often, such as labor.
I'll add another vote for both, as they bring different perspectives and subjects to bear.
I also like the idea of a rotating column "view from the cab.." , "ground pounding..." , "view from the tower...", etc, with guest columnists from different fields.
I'd just like to point out to several of you (those of you attempting to disqualify the question with some variant of "apples vs oranges" as your rationale) that the word "OR" is in the thread title for a reason.
IE, Which do you prefer:
War OR Peace
Ford OR Chevy
EMD OR GE
War Bonnet OR Grinstein
Apples OR Oranges
Phillips OR Frailey
got it?
This is another endless merry-go-round ride of a discussion. There are so many facets to being a railroad enthusiast that not even two columnists with diverging views cover the subject just from the hobbyist's view(s). Trains Magazine should be congratulated and applauded for presenting viewpoints like these two differing positions and should be encouraged to present others.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Yeah, it's too bad we don't have more threads that actually ACCOMPLISH something, such as nimby bashing, or lamenting the lost Milwaukee transcon, or speculating about when CSX will launch a heritage program.
Convicted One I'd just like to point out to several of you (those of you attempting to disqualify the question with some variant of "apples vs oranges" as your rationale) that the word "OR" is in the thread title for a reason. IE, Which do you prefer: War OR Peace Ford OR Chevy EMD OR GE War Bonnet OR Grinstein Apples OR Oranges Phillips OR Frailey got it?
Peace, Ford, EMD, Grinstein, what kind of apples?, and really don't care about the last one.
I gets it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Convicted One Yeah, it's too bad we don't have more threads that actually ACCOMPLISH something, such as nimby bashing, or lamenting the lost Milwaukee transcon, or speculating about when CSX will launch a heritage program.
Chessie (CSX) doesn't need a full blown heritage program. They just need a T1 painted in Chessie colors again. That would blow those 20 NS engines out of the water.
Wait, what is the topic again?
Oh, who cares.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Zugmann. I concur. CSX does not need a heritage program. Nor any other road for that matter. All NS did was increase the foam, when they released their heritage units.
Well, Shakespeare never wrote about trains, wrong time, wrong place. But if you want to get an idea of what 'ol Bill would have written about trains had he seen them try reading Lucius Beebe. As close to Shakespeare as you can get on the trains topic. What a wordsmith!
Murphy Siding But I think the real problem ,is that you're trying to compare apples to oranges.
So you think "the problem" is that I have posed a question to the board asking that they ring in with their preference between two columnists whose contributions (by even your own admission) are quite distinct from one another?
Exactly how is that a "problem"? I can see people responding that they have no preference one way or another, and that is certainly a valid response. But after recent articles by each seemed to elicit some strong sentiment against the respective authors, even on a personal level, how can my asking the board as a whole to bare their hand be a "problem"?
Really I just wanted to see if there was much consensus against the authors, or if the self anointed critics were out there alone. If that caused some real "problem" that you'd prefer not to deal with, I'm sorry you feel that way.
zugmann Peace, Ford, EMD, Grinstein, what kind of apples?, and really don't care about the last one. I gets it.
FORD? my GOD man, how can you possibly mean that with their "floaty valve" Ford valve timing sequence? the overlap is just too much for anyone needing to build any serious horsepower
Convicted One Murphy Siding But I think the real problem ,is that you're trying to compare apples to oranges. So you think "the problem" is that I have posed a question to the board asking that they ring in with their preference between two columnists whose contributions (by even your own admission) are quite distinct from one another? Exactly how is that a "problem"? I can see people responding that they have no preference one way or another, and that is certainly a valid response. But after recent articles by each seemed to elicit some strong sentiment against the respective authors, even on a personal level, how can my asking the board as a whole to bare their hand be a "problem"? Really I just wanted to see if there was much consensus against the authors, or if the self anointed critics were out there alone. If that caused some real "problem" that you'd prefer not to deal with, I'm sorry you feel that way.
Murphy Siding So, you really aren't asking which columnist the forum members like more, you're asking which one they dislike more?
Well, as they say "when in Rome"....
Murphy Siding The problem is, that you're not giving us examples of other columnists that we could dislike more.
Naw, "thats" no problem. Other columnists are outside of the scope of my interest for the purpose of this thread, and go back and recheck the original post. You'll notice I was the original poster, (e.g.....My thread) so I get to determine the scope.
I guess part of it stems from my own personal perception that Frailey at times seems to come across as a pom pom puffing cheerleader for the industry, while Phillips frequently seems to be more willing to reflect on the internal ills, where stark truths can be unpopular among many here.
Convicted One I guess part of it stems from my own personal perception that Frailey at times seems to come across as a pom pom puffing cheerleader for the industry, while Phillips frequently seems to be more willing to reflect on the internal ills, where stark truths can be unpopular among many here.
"The Monday morning quarterbacks who commented on my previous blog (here) thrashed the CEO of the company that owns the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic pretty thoroughly. Ed Burkhardt made mistakes, he surely did, such as not showing up in Lac Megantic, Que., for days after the catastrophe that took some 50 lives.
Put aside what Burkhardt shoulda, coulda done before the accident. In fact, put aside Ed Burkhardt. Bear in mind that this man is almost 75 years old and the event in Lac Megantic was utterly unimaginable — that is, until it happened.
Now that we know the unimaginable can happen, I want your ideas on how the chief executives of other railroads, big and small, should deal with catastrophes when they happen. How should they react? What should they do? What should they not do?
I will cite one example of what I consider exemplary behavior. At daybreak on August 9, 1997, Amtrak’sSouthwest Chief derailed near Kingman, Ariz., when a bridge gave way after a flash flood. Almost 200 passengers and employees were hurt, but none killed. Rob Krebs, the president of Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway (as it was then named), could have said, well, that is Amtrak’s problem and stayed put in Fort Worth and kept his mouth shut. Instead, he filled a plane with his operations executives and flew to Kingman that very morning and stayed there until the emergency was under control. Did Krebs bark orders and shout commands like a field general? I don’t know, but he was there, told reporters what he knew, and everyone felt his presence; in my book, that counts for a lot. I do not believe the president of Amtrak made it to Kingman.
Okay, guys and gals, be a railroad CEO for a day. Word is just in that your worst nightmare has occurred on your railroad’s property. Now what? — Fred W. Frailey"
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm (Per the linked article) Word is just in that your worst nightmare has occurred on your railroad’s property. Now what?
(Per the linked article)
Word is just in that your worst nightmare has occurred on your railroad’s property. Now what?
THAT'S Easy!! Round up all the torches and pitchforks and march on the Mayo Clinic!!!
Convicted One schlimm [Fred Frailey} Word is just in that your worst nightmare has occurred on your railroad’s property. Now what? THAT'S Easy!! Round up all the torches and pitchforks and march on the Mayo Clinic!!!
schlimm [Fred Frailey} Word is just in that your worst nightmare has occurred on your railroad’s property. Now what?
Convicted One Murphy Siding So, you really aren't asking which columnist the forum members like more, you're asking which one they dislike more? Well, as they say "when in Rome".... Murphy Siding The problem is, that you're not giving us examples of other columnists that we could dislike more. Naw, "thats" no problem. Other columnists are outside of the scope of my interest for the purpose of this thread, and go back and recheck the original post. You'll notice I was the original poster, (e.g.....My thread) so I get to determine the scope.
Murphy SidingWell garsh! If the scope of the thread was to simply be the fact that you don't like the writing style of Fred Frailey,
I don't believe that I have ever said that, ...now..have I?
He seems to have a certain flavor to his style, as does Phillips. And after reading various criticisms here it occurred to me that each might have limited appeal to the diverse personality types who frequent here, all the while others could read the same articles with fist pounding enthusiasm. Certainly you're not about to propose that it's your determination what interests I am allowed to have, and how I am "permitted" to express them?
Might I suggest that you'd be best served trying to better express your own thoughts, and spend less time trying to put words in my mouth. Just an observation.
Each writer appeals to different audiences with different styles and subject focus. Some readers like both, some one or the other, some neither. Pretty typical.
But you're painting with such a broad brush. How can that be any fun?
Convicted One Might I suggest that you'd be best served trying to better express your own thoughts, and spend less time trying to put words in my mouth. Just an observation.
I neither like not dislike Frailey or Phillips. In their extremes, Frailey seems to be very pro-business/ railroads can do no wrong. Phillips seems to be pro-big government/ we should spend big dollars to have Uncle Sam own the world's best passenger and commuter railroads. I don't always agree with the viewpoints of either, but I do enjoy reading their viewpoints on things. I read their columns to learn about their viewpoints, not to learn about my own.
Thanks Murph!!
I knew that if I squeezed long enough, eventually a contextual reply would come out.
Moreover, I look forward to each for competent, informed opinion, and seldom am I disappointed in that regard. Phillips comes across (to me) with more of a news reporter style, while Frailey seems more like he writes to entertain.
In fact I think that some of Frailey's "stand alone" articles are among the best the magazine has had during the past 10 years. His monthly contributions otoh, seem to smack a might with what in sports reporting is called 'homerism'. Which is okay I guess, so long as one remains mindful of it, and not allow it to shade one's perception of the newsworthiness of what's being reported.
I believe Murphy summed up my views nicely here:
"I nedither like not dislike Frailey or Phillips. In their extremes, Frailey seems to be very pro-business/ railroads can do no wrong. Phillips seems to be pro-big government/ we should spend big dollars to have Uncle Sam own the world's best passenger and commuter railroads."
While Convicted One completed my views;
Convicted One ... Phillips comes across (to me) with more of a news reporter style, while Frailey seems more like he writes to entertain. In fact I think that some of Frailey's "stand alone" articles are among the best the magazine has had during the past 10 years. His monthly contributions otoh, seem to smack a might with what in sports reporting is called 'homerism'. Which is okay I guess, so long as one remains mindful of it, and not allow it to shade one's perception of the newsworthiness of what's being reported. Combining their two viewpoints, my biggest complaint of Phillips was expressed--He has a liberal bias in nearly all his viewpoints. I believe his years in Europe contributed to this viewpoint from Phillips as it was not shown explicitly in his earlier Trains columns. Jay
... Phillips comes across (to me) with more of a news reporter style, while Frailey seems more like he writes to entertain.
Combining their two viewpoints, my biggest complaint of Phillips was expressed--He has a liberal bias in nearly all his viewpoints. I believe his years in Europe contributed to this viewpoint from Phillips as it was not shown explicitly in his earlier Trains columns.
Jay
garr I believe Murphy summed up my views nicely here: "I nedither like not dislike Frailey or Phillips. In their extremes, Frailey seems to be very pro-business/ railroads can do no wrong. Phillips seems to be pro-big government/ we should spend big dollars to have Uncle Sam own the world's best passenger and commuter railroads." While Convicted One completed my views; Convicted One ... Phillips comes across (to me) with more of a news reporter style, while Frailey seems more like he writes to entertain. In fact I think that some of Frailey's "stand alone" articles are among the best the magazine has had during the past 10 years. His monthly contributions otoh, seem to smack a might with what in sports reporting is called 'homerism'. Which is okay I guess, so long as one remains mindful of it, and not allow it to shade one's perception of the newsworthiness of what's being reported. Combining their two viewpoints, my biggest complaint of Phillips was expressed--He has a liberal bias in nearly all his viewpoints. I believe his years in Europe contributed to this viewpoint from Phillips as it was not shown explicitly in his earlier Trains columns. Jay
Tsk tsk, yet another person putting words in my mouth that were never mine.
How do we know your name isn't Jay?
Good point!! LAST TIME I checked, the tags sewn into my underwear did not say "Jay"
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