I was reading the Ed Eliss Pullman story and they mentioned Ross Rowland and his Greenbrier Presidential Express and the story told us that CSX said no and left us hanging and or failed to follow up as to why...Could the editors call up Mike Ward CEO of CSX and ask him whats going on here?
My observation over time - CSX is not friendly to passenger rail. You'll notice that you rarely, if ever, see any news about any excursions of any kind over CSX.
I suspect they handle the old Clinchfield Christmas train only because they'd seem like the Grinch if they pulled it.
Steam seems to get special attention - ie, not only no, but heck no!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
My impression and recollection is that there were differences between ACE Coal and Ross Rowland and the people at CSX. Private and political.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Concur that this is private, but Mike Ward is certainly not the person to consult. Ask Jim Justice at the hotel, or Ross himself. The issue of CSX involvement applies much less, if at all, to the operating model that had the Greenbrier consist attached to the Cardinal.
This subject was done to death over on RyPN, and probably should not be done to death here.
Larry
(Somehow, I failed to pick up Larry's original post and comment. So went back in and added it above my response.)
Perhaps you are very correct, Larry (tree68). My recollection of the stories drifting around the Memphis area in 1992 was that the CSX's (nee: Clinchfield RR)'s Christmas Train was a celebration of a very important anniversary of that Holiday Move. 50 years(?)
That was the trip when 3985 broke her steam draft nozzle en-route to Memphis, and was laid over for repairs ( down about 48 hours (?) for cool down, repair and firing back up) 3985 was repaired at the end of UP's track at Memphis ( site was the former L&N RR suburban station (Lenox Station; on Cooper, north of Central ave).
3985 , with her head end maintenance and crew cars and accompanied by a number of CSX Business cars making up the balance of her train; then departed for Bruceton, Tn and points East. The gossip was that the whole trip was done at the behest of the Transportation Dept at Eastman Chemical Co at Kingsport, Tenn. A very large railroad customer (Then and, probably still). { The further gossip was that UP and CSX were 'cooperating' to satisfy a very large shipper and to give the railroads a chance to discover a p[otential for merger.} It was quite a trip, and 3985 covered lots of unfamiliar ground,while impressing a lot of folks along the way. There are a number of You Tube Videos which show 3985 in action on that trip in 1992.
My personally favorite memory was of the pilot engineer when he came out of the cab, as 3985 stopped for clearance across the ICRR main South of Central Station. He was grimey, and soot covered, But you probably could not knock off that neon grin he was warring after his ride down across Arkansas in the cab of the 3985.
What is RPny Oh Railway Preservation News so where in this obscure publication is the debate?
Seems to me another case of self hating railfans not supporting there own
Bonas Seems to me another case of self hating railfans not supporting there own
Bonas What is RPny Oh Railway Preservation News so where in this obscure publication is the debate? Seems to me another case of self hating railfans not supporting there own
I am tempted to post this gem on RyPN, but I myself would consider that to be trolling... ;-}
Those people aren't the usual sort of railfans -- they are in the business of historic preservation, and probably devote far more timethan the usual member of this forum to the specific kind of actual passenger-hauling operations that the Greenbrier Presidential Express project involved. Dismissing them as foamers is ... well, I'd start with 'inappropriate'. More descriptions would apply.
And if you can't find debate over the Greenbrier Presidential Express in the RyPN Interchange, I'd have to suspect you either can't read very well or need to learn to use search on a computer a bit better...
Overmod ......................And if you can't find debate over the Greenbrier Presidential Express in the RyPN Interchange, I'd have to suspect you either can't read very well or need to learn to use search on a computer a bit better...
......................And if you can't find debate over the Greenbrier Presidential Express in the RyPN Interchange, I'd have to suspect you either can't read very well or need to learn to use search on a computer a bit better...
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding................... Or he's just trolling for reactions. Maybe he could go hide under a bridge on the BNSF?
Basing opinion on his prior posting, I haven't had the impression he's a troll. This is just a special case.
Yeah, very very special….
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It seems to me that someone who seemingly has just become interested in railroad operations and is puzzled by a comment such as the one that CSX refuses to operate a special passenger movement or couple someone else's cars to a scheduled train, he should not attempt to jump down the throat of whoever he thinks should have explained the situation fully, but should ask, politely, for more information. I appreciate the brief explanations given by those of us who have been familiar with the situation. I do not fault the writer of the comment for not going into the history of CSX's position on operating passenger trains.
Granted, not all of us have been subscribing to Trains for sixty-one years and so have followed the development of freight railroads' attitude towards passenger trains, but the majority of us are familiar with the current situation and are able to give a reasoned explanation.
Johnny
Murphy Siding Overmod ......................And if you can't find debate over the Greenbrier Presidential Express in the RyPN Interchange, I'd have to suspect you either can't read very well or need to learn to use search on a computer a bit better... ................... Or he's just trolling for reactions. Maybe he could go hide under a bridge on the BNSF?
"Self -hating railfans?" Jeez, I don't remember drinking any "Hater-Rade" lately.
Look me old son, here's the thing, and I know it's been discussed before but I'll say a few things again.
There's battles you can win, and there's battles you're better off not fighting. The fact is CSX doesn't like passenger trains. They'd dump Amtrak if they could. They don't want excursions, special runs, or things like the "Greenbriar Express." They're not in the business of entertaining railfans or the general public for that matter. They're in business to move, ahem, "stuff" from Point A to Point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible, and that's all. Getting them to want to do otherwise is a battle you can't win.
And you know what? That's their right. It's THEIR 'road. They call the shots. That's how it should be. Mind you I'm not a CSX apologist, I'm not on the payroll to explain things for them. But I am a realist who sees the world as it is, not how I would like it to be. Maybe one day the CSX attitude will change, but that day's not coming anytime soon. I can live with it.
Firelock76There's battles you can win, and there's battles you're better off not fighting. The fact is CSX doesn't like passenger trains. They'd dump Amtrak if they could. They don't want excursions, special runs, or things like the "Greenbriar Express." They're not in the business of entertaining railfans or the general public for that matter. They're in business to move, ahem, "stuff" from Point A to Point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible, and that's all. Getting them to want to do otherwise is a battle you can't win.
I wondered about what you say, Wayne. CSX does not post here so I have no direct statements from them about Amtrak. I went to their website. They have a "Corporate Social Responsibility Report." In their own words,
"CSX is fully committed to being a responsible corporate citizen and recognizes that safety, communitiy involvement and environmental stewardship help us to better serve our customers, shareholders and neighboring communities."
I read the summary. They talk about health benefits for employees, a variety of environmental concerns, what they are doing for charity and other good things. But I did not see one single word about Amtrak.
As you so clearly point out CSX sets its own agenda. And as far as I can see Amtrak has no place on that agenda. I don't want to diminish the good things or the community that CSX does but I find it hard to undersand how a railroad that makes an affirmative effort to be a responsible citizen could dismiss our national rail passenger system.
So until I learn otherwise I'll have to assume you are correct about your assessment of CSX.
John
Hello John! What I've gotten about CSX and Amtrak I've gotten from various sources over the years, from "Trains" to various railfan publications to the business section of the local newspaper. Don't ask me to quote "chapter and verse" because I can't, but the word I've gotten is CSX tolerates Amtrak because they don't have much of a choice. It's that simple.
Wayne
I won't ask you for a reference, Wayne. Actually I think I've seen it for myself. CSX claims they want community involvement; yet they reject involvement in the railroad community. But you are right; they have no choice about Amtrak.
"Its There Road" "They can do whatever they want"
WRONG! All Railroads in the USA are franshises granted by persmision of the Federal Goverment. Thats why they need PERMISSION to start or abandon there operations. Futhermore the railroad would not exist in the first place if not local towns put up there own money to buy stock and bonds in the railroad. As far as CSX goes the Ohio State Teachers Pension Fund is one of there largest stockholders and after that its the New York State Pension Fund.
And the other ruby slipper falls…..
Bonas "Its There Road" "They can do whatever they want" WRONG! All Railroads in the USA are franshises granted by persmision of the Federal Goverment. Thats why they need PERMISSION to start or abandon there operations. Futhermore the railroad would not exist in the first place if not local towns put up there own money to buy stock and bonds in the railroad. As far as CSX goes the Ohio State Teachers Pension Fund is one of there largest stockholders and after that its the New York State Pension Fund.
And?
no, CSX can't do whatever they want, but they don't have to do everything they don't want to, either.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BonasAs far as CSX goes the Ohio State Teachers Pension Fund is one of there largest stockholders and after that its the New York State Pension Fund.
Does that mean Ohio and New York teachers have a voice in policy discussions?
Yes
Ohio and PA have gottened there own elected to Corperate Boards. Donna Alavarado is from Ohio State Teachers on the CSX Board. Another way is activist pension funds like Calpers puts items on the proxy like carbon emmmsions reduction and the big reform on Shareholder Proxys is spliting the Chairman of the Board and the CEO Posistion. The idea is that a CEO should not scratch his own back. Or a dog lick its own ........
OK, I'll let the pros like edblysard and the zugmann take it from here, I've said all I've got to say.
Firelock76 OK, I'll let the pros like edblysard and the zugmann take it from here, I've said all I've got to say.
Don't go using that "p" word with me. I'm barely an amateur!
BonasYes
Thanks for the information, Bonas. I don't want to go around setting an agenda for other people. But it is good to be informed about who shapes the agenda.
Bonas,
First, could you write a complete and understandable sentence, please?
Spell check is not that hard to use either.
Second, why shouldn’t the teachers have a say, after all, they are the majority shareholders, and that’s pretty much the way corporate structure works.
Those groups basically own the majority of the company, shouldn’t they have a say in the business decisions, like who will head the company, stuff like that?.
Railroads are, after all, for profit business, not railfan entertainment ventures.
edblysard Bonas, First, could you write a complete and understandable sentence, please? Spell check is not that hard to use either. Second, why shouldn’t the teachers have a say, after all, they are the majority shareholders, and that’s pretty much the way corporate structure works. Those groups basically own the majority of the company, shouldn’t they have a say in the business decisions, like who will head the company, stuff like that?. Railroads are, after all, for profit business, not railfan entertainment ventures.
The problem I see with Directors on the boards of US corporations these days is that the feel their primary obligation is to show up at board meetings & conference calls so that they can collect their Directors Fee. No work and very little thought being required to rubber stamp the proposals of management for the operation of the company.
I have seen very little Directorial oversight in US corporations in recent years...right up until the proxy fight starts.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What if a group of railfans could pool enough shares of CSX to force a proxy to make them come up with a policy that would have written procedures that would allow railroad escusrions by groups like the NRHS?
SEC regs say thatyou only have to have 2,000.00 of shares to get something on the proxy ballot.
Its time to OCCUPY CSX. PETA has gotten KY Fried Chicken to change there policy so can we. If can get every railroad club in america to commit to some shares both real and model plus a personal apeal via a one page TRAINS mag ad then we can get them to pay attention.
note: as far as not typing in complete sentises libraryonly gives me 20min
Good luck in your endeavor.
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