My home state, my current residence, and vacation residence is in, what I think , one of most beautiful states in the country, Wisconsin. As anyone may think of their home state. I just wish it was more "rail friendly" It seems we have given up on rail service, especially passenger and commuter rail service, a long time ago. No matter what political side you favor, commuter and passenger rail service has a tough existence, if any at all, compared to building wider, bigger and better roads, even to the point of possibly "stacking" freeways to make way for more personal vehicles. The road builders have a strong lobby, and a good living in Wisconsin. Even freight rail has to struggle to survive, as more residential areas want less rail crossing, no horn blowing, and the NIMBY attitude of "A spoiled generation that has forgotten what made this country rich", as what once was said by former WC president, Ed Burkhardt. Now I hear that our current state leaders want to cut spending on the Hiawatha Service, which is a vital, and always busy link between two major metropolitan areas. If only the balance of road verses railroad, won't have gotten so one sided, and some of the former infrastructure could have been maintained, so bringing it back and reviving it wouldn't be such a surmountable struggle, not only in Wisconsin, but across the nation, maybe in this country, could we have the availability, profitability and possibilty of a national and regional system of rail travel.
Thanks for letting me ramble on,
Mike.
My You Tube
Wisconsin has been very 'rail friendly' - At least to preserving freight rail service. The state has bought up a number of rail lines and leased them out(WSOR being the big operator). As far as passenger operation, the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor has basic Amtrak funding, and the State of Wisconsin makes up for any losses on selected trains - I think this is the Hiawatha service trains you are referring to. At least most of the highway between Milwaukee & Chicago is Illinois's problem.
Wisconsin did back out of the High Speed Rail project due to the state having to pick up any losses after the Federal funding ran out. With no real 'numbers' to gauge what the State may have to eventually pay, I can understand the hesitation. Ask the folks in Western Wisconsin if they really care about Amtrak trains that they do not see or use.
Here in Minnesota, we have a single Amtrak train each way(Empire Builder) that crosses the state. Myself, I would love to see a good integrated National rail passenger service, but the losses Amtrak piles up each year prove that the time has not arrived quite yet.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Just give it time, gasoline prices continue to climb, its slow but its inexorable, sometimes the rise is so slow but persistent the NIMBYs in their SUVs don't realize that they are now willingly shoveling cash at near $4 a gallon into the same cars that back in '06 when they were screaming like stuck pigs about putting in the same as now $4 a gallon gas. Someone said gas would have to get closer to $7 or $8 a gallon to really get people to change their habits.
I suppose Wisconsonite's could buy 40 mpg Prius's or Ford C-max's but I really wonder how well those cars would do in a good old fashion Lake Wobegon Winter, especially since electric batteries really really hate cold weather. Flying is not much better as the TSA can grope your children and irradiate you with impunity all while being herded onto aerial cattle cars. I prefer traveling by train when I can, but if reasonable, I will drive my little gasoline fuel foiler rather than fly any day. Luckily I live where it doesn't snow, but it does occasionally burn if you're watching the news
But it is really silly how many people will put up with traffic, high fuel prices and inconvenience driving their big low milage SUVs or pickups all while being convinced that they are using the most efficient method of travel and not even realizing their are other very viable options today...
Have fun with your trains
mbinsewi,
As a fellow Wisconsinite, I hear what you're saying. Development along the soon to be Interstate 41 from Green Bay through Oshkosh in our area has turned the roughly sixty miles into an artery of aesthetic ugliness.
As far as the state's rail travel future is concerned, I think our best bet is focusing on the Hiawatha Service. I think all of our efforts right now should go toward replacing the rolling stock used in that service with new equipment, hopefully something with a little flair.
Vsmith,
Here's an example of how people day-to-day adjust to gas prices. A friend of ours commutes about 10 miles to work, living just west of town and working on the east side. She used to drive the four lane 65mph that belts around the south end of our city. She replaced her all-gas car with a Prius. (She's had no problem with it in cold weather). Now she drives straight through town to work on the 30mph city streets because she's found she can drive the whole distance without the engine kicking in. She's made a game of it. A more direct trip that's all-electric; no gasoline used, not much extra commute time.
vsmith ... and not even realizing their are other very viable options today...
... and not even realizing their are other very viable options today...
It's only viable if it meets "my" specific needs...
Otherwise it's a leech off society and not worth "my" money.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
And all I can add is that Wisconsin is a very beautiful state!
Smells good, too! (go out on a crispy morning and sniff!)
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I got three ex wives in Wisconsin ... must be something in the air ....
After a little web surfing Governor Scott Walker seems opposed to a great many things. He seems pretty embattled. He did win his recall election but a lot of people still oppose him on a variety of issues. Most recently he has had opposition within his own party for his support of Rent To Own.
So, while he opposes spending money on trains and may even cut back or eliminate Hiawatha service that is not the only thing he opposes.
Randy Stahl I got three ex wives in Wisconsin ... must be something in the air ....
John WR,
Re: Walker and Hiawatha service...
April 29, 2013
" • Decrease payments for the Hiawatha passenger trains to Chicago by $1.1 million. Krieser said that was a saving from the state's new contract with Amtrak, the service provider, and wouldn't affect the service level."
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/state-employee-raises-are-minimal-under-scott-walkers-budget-proposal-a09oi1k-205256931.html
:::::::::::::
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced that 22 projects in 15 states would share $2 billion in federal high-speed rail money that had been rejected by Florida.
(more)
Post Link: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/121493924.html
:::::::::::::::::::
The Hiawatha provided a record 823,163 rides in 2011, up 4% from 792,848 in 2010, the department said. The line also set monthly ridership records in every month except August of last year, the department reported.
Amtrak had previously reported that the Hiawatha was the most heavily used line in the Midwest, and sixth-busiest nationwide, during the federal fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. The Hiawatha runs seven round trips daily between downtown Milwaukee and downtown Chicago, with stops at Mitchell International Airport, Sturtevant and Glenview, Ill.
:::::::::::::::
Walker has had the guts to say no. He successfully closed a $3Billion biennial deficit in our state budget in one year, and helped school districts get in much better financial shape in the process. He said that was what he would do when he campaigned, and that is what he has done. Quite naturally there's been howling and gnashing of teeth by those who had been benefitting from the overspending. The taxpayers were tired of funding much better retirements for govt. workers than they could achieve themselves, and had had enough.
I think there are people in other states like California and Illinois who wish they could do it, too. Still in all, Wisconsin is on the hook (as other states are) for unfunded mandates estimated to range from $18Billion to $28Billion, the really worrisome part being THE SPREAD. One really doesn't know the extent.
I can assure the posters here that Governor Walkers affinity for the Hiawatha Service has nothing to do with his personal likes or dislikes, it has more to do with political support among business leaders in Milwaukee.
I can also tell you that probably nobody in this thread is active in preservation or expansion of rail passenger service in Wisconsin. I was a WisARP member as well as part of the group that wanted the Feds to support Milwaukee to Watertown rail service in the 1980's (restoration of the former Milwaukee Road Cannonball) We got more support from the Milwaukee Road than we did from local railfans. Local railfans took pictures of the train as it traversed the route but as far as contributing money or writing letters on behalf of support...........forget it.
So the problem is not one of government it is one of mobilization of people that want the service and would use it. In Texas we were able to get former Governor Bush to start and support the Ft. Worth to Oklahoma City Service after mobilizing some folks, not a lot of folks but enough in George Bushes adopted hometown of Dallas that he took notice and swung his support behind the idea.
That's all it takes.
Now that we are on the subject, I think it is a HUGE MISTAKE for WisDOT and Amtrak to fill in the under platform tunnels at the Station in Milwaukee. Those tunnels will be needed once HSR goes through and the station needs multi-platform support again for trains at the station. A very shortsighted decision but one in which could be reversed with local opposition to the idea.
jclass John WR, Re: Walker and Hiawatha service... April 29, 2013 " • Decrease payments for the Hiawatha passenger trains to Chicago by $1.1 million. Krieser said that was a saving from the state's new contract with Amtrak, the service provider, and wouldn't affect the service level." http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/state-employee-raises-are-minimal-under-scott-walkers-budget-proposal-a09oi1k-205256931.html ::::::::::::: After rejecting the $800 million federal boondagle offer, Walker tried to get money from the feds for useful upgrades of the Hiawatha service, but that was refused... http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118842999.html May 9, 2011Wisconsin was shut out Monday in its bid for $150 million in federal money to upgrade the Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha line. U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced that 22 projects in 15 states would share $2 billion in federal high-speed rail money that had been rejected by Florida. (more) Post Link: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/121493924.html ::::::::::::::::::: Amtrak's Hiawatha line breaks ridership record January 27, 2013 Annual ridership on Amtrak's Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha line cracked the 800,000 mark for the first time last year, the state Department of Transportation reported Friday. The Hiawatha provided a record 823,163 rides in 2011, up 4% from 792,848 in 2010, the department said. The line also set monthly ridership records in every month except August of last year, the department reported. Amtrak had previously reported that the Hiawatha was the most heavily used line in the Midwest, and sixth-busiest nationwide, during the federal fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. The Hiawatha runs seven round trips daily between downtown Milwaukee and downtown Chicago, with stops at Mitchell International Airport, Sturtevant and Glenview, Ill. ::::::::::::::: Walker has had the guts to say no. He successfully closed a $3Billion biennial deficit in our state budget in one year, and helped school districts get in much better financial shape in the process. He said that was what he would do when he campaigned, and that is what he has done. Quite naturally there's been howling and gnashing of teeth by those who had been benefitting from the overspending. The taxpayers were tired of funding much better retirements for govt. workers than they could achieve themselves, and had had enough. I think there are people in other states like California and Illinois who wish they could do it, too. Still in all, Wisconsin is on the hook (as other states are) for unfunded mandates estimated to range from $18Billion to $28Billion, the really worrisome part being THE SPREAD. One really doesn't know the extent.
Yes.
I live about three miles south (the unfortunate side) of the Wisconsin-Illinois state line.
Walker is increasing state funding for education. Our Illinois government, after a substantial income tax increase, is decreasing state funding for education.
But, we've got 15 miles of "Higher Speed" rail. Trains go through Dwight, IL at 79 MPH, accelerate over 2.5 miles to 110 MPH, then run at 110 for 5.5 minutes. After that breathtaking run they slow down over another 2.5 miles to 79 MPH to go through Pontiac, IL. And they continue at that max 79 MPH pace to St. Louis.
These trains are hopelessly uneconomic, requiring two locomotives to get to 110 for 5.5 minutes. But there is a great picture of Homer Simpson the Illinois governor standing under a speedometer and pointing at it as it reads 111 MPH. (our own Edie Haskil, sometimes called Senator Dick Durbin, is standing next to the governor in the picture.)
I kick myself every day for not buying a house 3.5 miles north of here. Living under a sane state government would be so nice.
As information, the Illinois Central safely ran the Green Diamond at more than 110 MPH between Chicago and St. Louis in 1938.
Can't spend the money twice. If you waste it on Amtrak you can't spend it on teaching reading, writing and arithmetic.
Please, one and all, can we just lock this thread now before the poitics gets any further into it?
That would put ALL passenger rail on the forbidden list. ALL passenger rail is nothing but politics unless you want to talk about what color the cars and locomotives are.
Randy
Kevin C. Smith Please, one and all, can we just lock this thread now before the poitics gets any further into it?
Randy Stahl That would put ALL passenger rail on the forbidden list. ALL passenger rail is nothing but politics unless you want to talk about what color the cars and locomotives are. Randy
I like blue engines.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Sorry-I wasn't concerned so much about the topic of passenger (or even freight) rail...so much as the posts that are going to be about the present administration in Madison. Already we have had a couple that are more on that topic than on Wisconsin's "rail friendliness" (or lack). Given the contentiousness of the political atmosphere in the country in general, Wisconsin in particular, and this board on occasion-I just wanted to put out a plea to try and avoid going down the wrong path.
A non political passenger rail topic at last !!!
zugmann Randy Stahl That would put ALL passenger rail on the forbidden list. ALL passenger rail is nothing but politics unless you want to talk about what color the cars and locomotives are. Randy I like blue engines.
Finally .. a non political passenger rail topic.. I like em orange and black
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
zugmann I like blue engines.
zardoz zugmann I like blue engines. We all know that BLUE engines are part of the White Boxcar Conspiracy. It's people like you that threaten our sacred RED way of life. And you probably like polka-dots better than stripes. Squares instead of circles. Up instead of down. In rather than out.
Red engines are just a front for the yellow engine regime against us honest blue engine lovers. And you can't like both polka dots and squares. That's just crazy.
zugmannI like blue engines.
I like "Blue Christmas" as sung by Elvis Presley. Elvis, of course lived in Memphis, TN which has a fine old station and his served twice a day by the City of New Orleans.
Thus gas guzzling SUV's of 10 years ago (remember the Hummers?) are now pretty efficient. I gave my Jeep Commander (about 15mpg overall) to my 16 year old son and upgraded to a slightly smaller Chevy Equinox which provides 24mpg overall, a 60% increase.
Ed
No doubt we have made gains in the energy efficiency of rubber tired vehicles. But railroads are pretty energy efficient too.
And I thought I was a slow learner (ducking and running for cover).
SALfan Randy Stahl I got three ex wives in Wisconsin ... must be something in the air .... And I thought I was a slow learner (ducking and running for cover).
Well the ex's could have been in Texas!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There are wishes and then there are realities.
I wish the former Minnesota Zephyr line behind the house I live in were to be a light rail line. Its being turned into a bike trail and it is owned by the state and it is on a list or potential future routes for a light rail line but they are building other legs of the Twin Cities light rail system that they have put up ahead of this one. I wish that they never ever abandoned and removed rail lines because of some time down the road in decades or centuries they will be needed again when we run out of petroleum and then coal. If they can develop inexpensive hydrogen fuel cells for cars then we don't have to worry about the end of personal transportation on 4 wheels.
Realities are that right now its cheap to operate a car or truck and thus the decline of passenger rail. Box trucks and semis hauling freight have put a big dent in rail freight with complete A to B transportation on demand.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
BoydRealities are that right now its cheap to operate a car or truck and thus the decline of passenger rail. Box trucks and semis hauling freight have put a big dent in rail freight with complete A to B transportation on demand.
Well yes, but the low cost of operating a road vehicle is a created reality, created by government policies of subsidizing road travel in a great many hidden ways.
There is also the reality of a steel wheel on a steel rail.
And it is possible to choose some realities and ignore others.
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