You can read about it at http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/california/
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Hold my breath the LION will not dew.
(And they accuse *ME* of pie in the sky planing.)
LOOK about this "free energy" bovine by-product...
If I could turn Rhubarb into GOLD, I would already be rich. AND as a side benefit, I would not have to eat the darn stuff! The only thing that goes good with rhubarb is Roundup.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Never say never, Mr. Cat!
"Each year it seems to take less time to fly across the ocean and longer to drive to work." ~Author Unknown
"The horse is here to stay, but the automobile is only a novelty—a fad." - Advice from a president of the Michigan Savings Bank to Henry Ford's lawyer
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
I'll gladly take your rhubarb, Lion. One of my favorite pies is rhubarb pie. No strawberries added; just rhubarb. And just enough sugar to make it mildly sweet but still tart. Mmmmmmm.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Not to start a political row here Lion, but why not? Doesn't someone has to start somewhere? Besides, final energy proposals are due May 13. They seem to be moving forward with the assumption that it is going to happen.
Mouse
howmusNever say never, Mr. Cat!
LION did not say "never" He said that he will not hold his breath.
If the politicians and NIMBYS in Washington and California WOULD hold their breath, LION can see it happening. LION can not see those people ever holding their breaths.
They're moving forward with wasting our money. That's what government does.
High speed rail is a great dream. If it were commercially viable, the current railroads would already be doing it. How much will this require in subsidy every year into the future?
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
SpaceMouseNot to start a political row here Lion, but why not? Doesn't someone has to start somewhere? Besides, final energy proposals are due May 13. They seem to be moving forward with the assumption that it is going to happen.
LION does not have to start a political row over this. Politicians and NIMBYS have already started the row over the ROW, where it should go and where it should not go.
But for "free energy" let the LION address wind power in terms that we can understand.
A subway car runs on 600 volts.A subway car can draw 700 amps, but 300 is normal for the motors and another 100 for hotel, LION will use 400 amps for his example.
600 volts x 400 amps = 240,000 watts.
Times 10 car trains = 2.4 MEGAWATTS
One wind tower generates 1.5 to 3 megawatts.
Figure 1 wind mill for one subway train. Times 240 trains during rush hour = 200 wind towers just to run the Subway, and not including the LIRR, MNCR, NJT or AMTK.
Out here in North Dakota we place about 2 wind towers per square miles, but NYC only has 306 square miles, and last time I looked, they were being used for other things.
On the topic of Solar Power, look at the Citibank tower in Manhattan. It has a roof at 45 degrees to accommodate solar power. LION does not know how well it worked, but him *DOES* know that it was not tried again in the past 40 years. Maybe they know something that we do not know.
BTW the new Coney Island terminal has solar panels over the train shed. I do not know how that is doing, but it does not provide lighting at night, and in the day time it is not needed, however the panels are like dark sun glasses and provide nice cover from the hot summer sun.
Can it work. Can California pull it off? Can California balance ANY budget. Can the Federal Government balance any budget? Sure it can happen, Japan, Germany, and China can all do it, but they (California and Washington) have not shown me that they are capable of any such thing.
Remarkably, the old Burlington Route operated "high speed rail" in the Great Depression on a shoe string budget.
It was called the Pioneer Zephyr.
It reached 112 mph on conventional track with bolted rail (not welded).
So, yes, the government is wasting billions of dollars on high speed rail.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Garry,
112 mph is high speed?
Granted, I am spoiled rotten, living in a country, where commuter locals do 100mph between stops, the average long distance train does 112 mph and high speed is anything between 140mph and 200mph.
Granted that we are talking about our government.But, with the expected popuylation growth to 60M between now and 2030, CA will either have to build 60 more airline gates and 3000 miles of new highways to compensate or come up with a better plan. The rail is expected to cost $68 Billion and save $20 Billion/year due to congestion. (Don't ask, I have no idea how that figure is calculated.)
It seems that a high speed rail is a good idea and is the only option that can use renewable energy.
SpaceMouseIt seems that a high speed rail is a good idea and is the only option that can use renewable energy.
Not to chip away at the spacemouse, but I agree with you on HSR, and I have ALWAYS postulated that it will begin on the state and regional level. Yes, they will get monies from the fed, and yes it can work. LION *wants* it to work. LION wants cars and airplanes to disappear from regional transportation. So good luck to those Californians, but LION WILL NOT HOLD HIS BREATH!
Ulrich..... Was that in the 1930's with a Peioneer Zephyr budget?
Space Mouse .... I do agree, rail passneger service is a smart idea. In 1950, USA had the best passenger trains in the world. Government put most passnger trains out of business by funding competition (airports and highways)..... Pacfic Electric had a good service in the LA area, but LA just had to build its freeways. .... This country has spent 100's bilions on highways and airports over the decades since 1950. Now, government is starting to spend billions on passneger trains. .... I suspect, the railroad companies would have already built the best high speed rail in the world already with no taxpayer money if government had stayed out of transportation altogether. .....
I'm not trying to be political, but the prototypes we model are influenced by government polices. That is how things are.
Meanwhile I'll model 1950-1965 with passenger trains.
Heartland Division CB&QPacfic Electric had a good service in the LA area, but LA just had to build its freeways. ....
Ever see the movie Chinatown?
Somehow, I have visions of trains with giant sails for wind power....they still have to work out the details of things like tacking when the wind's not quite right.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Sir Madog Garry, 112 mph is high speed? Granted, I am spoiled rotten, living in a country, where commuter locals do 100mph between stops, the average long distance train does 112 mph and high speed is anything between 140mph and 200mph.
One of our politicians (I won't say which one, because flames belong in the firebox) proposed a high-speed rail system that would reach speeds of 80-90 mph. I thought it was kind of comical that we can't get close to the speeds routinely reached by steam engines in the first half of the previous century, even in our dreams.
The proposed train is expected to average 170 MPH with top speeds over 200 mph.
The Lion is right Don't hold your breath. When it does happen goverment will be involved for example Goverment builds roads that privately owned cars use Same for Airports. So in theory Goverment could build tracks that private trains would run on.
Joe Staten Island West
MisterBeasley Somehow, I have visions of trains with giant sails for wind power....they still have to work out the details of things like tacking when the wind's not quite right.
Mr. B, .... If that was with gondolas, it would be "Gon with the Wind" ......... .... oh, never mind.
here in the midwest we are working on a way to efficiently get to a place no one wants to go to. high speed rail between Chicago and downtown St Louis? many locals avoid that like the plague unless they can make it in the daylight. after dark, walk sideways so you can take the bullet in the shoulder.
in the 50's we had 11 trains on 3 different railroads doing the trip in as little as 5 hours.
i would say save the money and spend it on something interesting and fun like steam restoration.
charlie
BroadwayLion LION *wants* it to work. LION wants cars and airplanes to disappear from regional transportation.
LION *wants* it to work. LION wants cars and airplanes to disappear from regional transportation.
What...really? I can just picture a lot more unemployment if that were to happen. But, I guess to half of the population, that really doesn't matter. All I can say is the fed had better not use the taxpayers money to finance this monstrosity. This is California's dream; let them deal with it.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
PRR/PC/CR/Amtrak has been running "high speed" rail with renewable energy sources continuously since the 1930's.
While there is a place for passenger rail transportation, a lot of the claims have to be taken with a grain of salt and people have to be willing to foot a VERY high cost. While wind is free, wind electricity is not (its more expensive per kwh than fossil fuels currently). In order to be successful the infrastructure on either end has to support getting the people to their destination. Nobody wants to go from a train station to another train station. They want to go from an office/business/home to another office/business/home.
I agree with the others who have pointed out that Amtrak's vision of "high speed rail" is not truly "high" speed. The trains need to be going 150-250 mph to compete effectively. That requires a separate right of way, double track and expensive systems.
Not saying it won't be built, I'm just with Lion and not holding my breath.
Here's an interesting race. Which will be first : Commercial orbital space tourist trips or a high speed line between Los Angeles and San Francisco?
I did find it amusing that the proponents in the story said that in case of an earthquake the train would provide a good alternate means of traffic. As long as the earthquake that knocked down the highway bridges didn't knock down the railroad bridges next to them, as long as the landslides that block the roads don't land on railroad tracks, as long as the railroad tunnels aren't damaged the same as the road tunnels and as long as a huge electrical grid remains functioning even though other parts in the same area are damaged, yes it will be a good alternative.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
trwrouteWhat...really? I can just picture a lot more unemployment if that were to happen. But, I guess to half of the population, that really doesn't matter.
LION was looking only at efficiency. Doe the gubbermint make us buy buggy whips just to keep a few jobs?
One job goes away and another job opens up. LION never said cars should go away, of course everybody is going to have lots of cars. That will never change. But for regional business, who the heck would want to drive? I would not, although I would not want to ride on a bus either.
Airplanes are fuel hogs, and can run on nothing but jet fuel. These too will not go away, but you sure could eliminate the NYC-WAS shuttle flights. Many others too. All of my air trips are three flights and a whole "travel day". Well from North Dakota you need an airplane. But Chicago to New York HSR would be my choice. Every thing east of the Mississippi should be HSR, AND the system should have code sharing and through baggage checks with the airlions.
LIONS have taken over the TSA: Pleas have your papers ready for our inspection:
dehusman Not saying it won't be built, I'm just with Lion and not holding my breath. Here's an interesting race. Which will be first : Commercial orbital space tourist trips or a high speed line between Los Angeles and San Francisco?
We have been waiting for the Second Avenue Subway since 1950. Even now they are only working on a small part of it.
So much for gubbermint, City, State, or Federal.
BroadwayLion LION was looking only at efficiency. Doe the gubbermint make us buy buggy whips just to keep a few jobs? One job goes away and another job opens up.
One job goes away and another job opens up.
No on the buggy whip thing, but the way we are going, the government IS making us buy something we don't want. But that's for another forum.
I'm not sure I really believe in the one goes away, another opens up claim. When the toll booths did away with the actual people manning them, what opened up to replace those jobs?
MisterBeasley Sir Madog Garry, 112 mph is high speed? Granted, I am spoiled rotten, living in a country, where commuter locals do 100mph between stops, the average long distance train does 112 mph and high speed is anything between 140mph and 200mph. One of our politicians (I won't say which one, because flames belong in the firebox) proposed a high-speed rail system that would reach speeds of 80-90 mph. I thought it was kind of comical that we can't get close to the speeds routinely reached by steam engines in the first half of the previous century, even in our dreams.
Sort of reminds us that sailing ships many years ago reached speeds twice as fast as todays modern transport ships, nothing new again.
tatans Sort of reminds us that sailing ships many years ago reached speeds twice as fast as todays modern transport ships, nothing new again.
Can't wait until somebody "discovers" you can power ships with renewable wind energy. Cutting edge green technology.
cedarwoodronThe California rail line will transit areas where there is not sufficient reason to go from here to there, rather than servicing the high population corridors from San Diego to San Francisco, where it could easily interface with regional rail service.
The first phase will be LA to SF with estimated ticket price of $55. The second and third phases will add San Diego and Sacramento.
Forgive me...and I mean this with complete honesty as I tend to avoid political themed threads...but is this the same highspeed rail that is supposed to cost...$35 million per mile...to construct and that the contract was awarded to a California Senators husbands firm? If so...is there not a conflict of interest? If not...I will humbly go back to my layout...
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
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