http://www.american-rails.com/railway-post-office.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_post_office
Mail by rail could help Amtrak achieve positive financial operations. HSR routes could be used for the moving of postage. It could also help the post office save money on fuel.
Railroad to Freedom
Ain't gonna happen. Today, most mail is moved by air and truck to regional sorting centers. There is no longer a need to sort it while enroute. The RPO was good in it's time, but can you see an RPO car on a thru freight taking days to cross the country when it can be done in a few hours by air?
Norm
Norm48327The RPO was good in it's time, but can you see an RPO car on a thru freight taking days to cross the country when it can be done in a few hours by air?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I'm not sure who decided to move the mail off of the trains, Amtrak or the Post Office. In retrospect it looks to me like a poor decision. However, the decision was made and reversing it now would be difficult at best.
I spent many years working for the Federal Government. For a long time we had franked mail. Each year the Post Office would weigh our mail for one month. Then annual charges would be levied based on that sample and each piece of mail would not have to have an individual stamp. Government envelopes just had a preprinted frank. It was very efficient and a wonderful service to the public. For example, if I needed to send a notice to an individual to come into the office an pick up his or her check and it was late Friday evening I would prepare the notice and drop in it a box where the mail was picked up late when I went home. The person would have his notice the next day or Monday at the latest. But the Post Office did away with franked mail so each piece of mail had to go through our mail room to be weighed and have postage put on it whcih was an added expense. And every Government office now had to buy a postage meter. And the notice that I might have mailed on Friday would now sit and wait until Monday or, if the weekend had 3 days, until Tudsday. The level of service was eroded. But that is what happened.
Will we undo the mistake that was made when passenger trains stopped moving the mails? I doubt it. But I hope I'm wrong.
Mail was removed from trains in 1967 - Post Office revenue from both RPO and storage mail operations had formed the economic justification for many trains and kept them within hailing distance of braking even. The loss of Post Office revenue hastened the carriers to get out of the passenger business and brought about the formation of Amtrak.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Mail was moved by train because there was no better way. Planes came along and there was special rate for Air Mail. Government contracts ended, Land Grant agreements ran out, the Interstate Highway System was improving, concrete and gas was what ground transportation was all about, and zip codes and computer readers made more sense than sorting on the train. Thus the zip code system helped bring in the centralized and regional sorting in hub and spoke configuration and trucks speeding from hub to hub. The United States Post Office was dissolved and all the functions were transferred to the United States Postal Service. Bulk mail was carried by trains into the Amtrak and Conrail era's. But most all is done by the zip code, hub and spoke centers with trucks and planes, modeled after the UPS and FedEx systems rather than the old Post Office. With the end of mail contracts railroads were able to take passenger trains off the rails, even rip up thousands of miles of rail, and concentrate on making money on freight. Yes, it was part and parcel with Amtrak to rid the railroads of the burden of moving passengers.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I'm not in charge, Henry. But if I were in charge I would consider that the Federal Government is in the business of moving mail and the Federal Government is in the business of moving rail passengers. And I would ask if there are some places where these two parts of the Federal Government might coöperate to mutual advantage.
John
Isn't it all moot...really? I get the impression that the post offices on both sides of the Forty-Ninth have their remaining days listed over about six future calendars or something like that. They're both on life support, their chests are black and blue, and the ER floor is awash in their bodily fluids.
Crandell
The US Post Office was abolished and the United States Postal Service was formed. Congress also amended the laws so that anyone other than the US Post Office could pick up and deliver letters and correspondence..ie. DHL, UPS, Fed Ex. The USPS was also held responsible for pensions, etc. created by the USPO. Thus, it was a deal to privatize all mail and packages and let the USPS slowly bleed to death while private enterprise got the plumb traffic and ability to earn a profit.
I know that private companies offer special overnight letter delivery service as the Post Office also does, Henry. But does anyone else offer the same kind of first class mail service? The real competition here, as I understand it, is e mail. These days most of us pay our mortages and utility bills by e mail or by authorizations to make regular withdrawals from our checking accounts. I'm sure you remember when all of this was by first class mail. And then there are regular government payments. I's sure you also remember when the government made all of its payments by a physical check sent in the mail. No more. Now the Treasury Department requires everyone to use Direct Deposit which is also called Electronic Funds Transfer. Those things have cost the Post Office a lot of money.
But I'm sure you are also aware that Congress has just refused to allow the Post Office to cut back from 6 day delivery to 5 day delivery so I guess not some money will have to be found to finance that.
John WR But I'm sure you are also aware that Congress has just refused to allow the Post Office to cut back from 6 day delivery to 5 day delivery so I guess not some money will have to be found to finance that.
As a residential customer, it really wouldn't bother me to only get mail three days a week. Not that I'm wishing away anyone's job, but the same (reduced) delivery workforce could twice as many deliveries.
There are more and more days when my P.O. Box is devoid of anything other than advertisements.
Businesses would likely balk at such a reduced delivery schedule, and methinks special deliveries could still be done on "off" days. But except for that rare occasion when you're waiting at the mailbox for the postman to arrive, getting that letter or bill tomorrow instead of today wouldn't be a disaster.
I routinely print the bar code on the envelopes I do send out - it's part of the word processing program.
The former local sorting center has long since stopped sorting. In fact, the nearest large center, Syracuse, no longer sorts the mail - it all goes to Rochester.
I believe a lot of mail still goes by rail - but it's in trailers or containers.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
RPO's and HYPO's were discontinued because they no longer fit in with the increased mechanization of mail handling and mail sorting. Sorting en route became an unnecessary expense when sorting became consolidated at sectional centers, a process that was aided and abetted by the introduction of ZIP Codes in the mid 1960's.
As mentioned above, the mail is still carried by rail, mostly in intermodal freights. It just isn't sorted en route anymore.
And don't forget about stagecoaches. They could provide the link to those smaller towns that don't have rail service anymore. That would also boost the bottom line of the stagecoach operators. The stagecoaches could continue operating long after their economic viability had passed for them to haul mail. An added bonus, would be the revival of the bullwhip industry in America.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Mail does move by rail. Quite a bit of it. Those timed catalogs and sales flyers from places like LLBean designed to hit your mailbox just before a sale move from printers to bulk mail centers by intermodal. That's the primary business of Thoroughbred Direct.
Up into the mid-90s, some first class mail was still moving on Conrail in intermodal service. NY/NJ to Pittsburgh was one lane that had some first class mail. It was dwindling slowly, though. Not sure how much remains on NS today.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
First class mail moving at a speed appropriate for its class is no longer a necessity.
Long distance telephone service started the trend. Long distance phone service used to be horrendously expensive, but now is not. The electronic networks now in place have also made it possible to do financial transactions over the wire. Fewer depend on first class mail than once did.
Sorting mail on swaying Railway Post Offices will not return. It took intelligence and diligence to be a Railway Post Office clerk. You had to know what mail went where from memory and were tested for your skills on a regular basis. It would be expensive and take time to rebuild such a cadre of workers.
"The reason we have zip code is because (expletive deleted)s can't read," was one Congressman's lament almost 50 years ago. Automated equipment has now replaced clerks who only needed to translate numbers on mail into key strokes. Automated hubs are here to stay.
There may indeed be future for mail moving by rail. Containerized junk mail makes more sense than clerks in motion sorting letters into pigeon holes and sacks
oltmannd Mail does move by rail. Quite a bit of it. Those timed catalogs and sales flyers from places like LLBean designed to hit your mailbox just before a sale move from printers to bulk mail centers by intermodal. That's the primary business of Thoroughbred Direct. Up into the mid-90s, some first class mail was still moving on Conrail in intermodal service. NY/NJ to Pittsburgh was one lane that had some first class mail. It was dwindling slowly, though. Not sure how much remains on NS today.
I Would add a point to what Don (oltmannd) said:
Having been out of the business of working with various Express Carriers for some time, I do not know the extent that they are involved with the movement of (U.S.) mail. I do know that FedEx has a roll to play in some movements of Mail products. Recently, I shipped several packages to different recipients and found out that they had been moved over part of their trip by FedEx. Not to mention that I see their stationary collection boxes by several Post Office facilities. Apparently, a product of their (FedEx's) regular pick ups at those locations, as well(?).
Point being, To create more competition among that Sector of Business. Why not put the mail Services out for bid to United Parcel Service and FedEx ? Let them buy from the Post Office the Fixed facilities (as they find them necessary for their operations)
The selected bidders could have the option to hirecurrent Post Office Employees, or not. Get the government as far fom the Postal Operations as they can be. Let the business be operated for a profit, if possible. The root of current Post Office problems seem to lay in the area of Regulations, sponsored by Special Interest groups, and legislated regulations that are like a poison pill for the P.O.
Personal or residential mail is burdensome and expensive to operate so the private companies really don't want to get involved. But they do want business to business documents and packages. So that leaves the USPS to bring us our bills and whatever other correspondence there is to and from our homes.
Another thing to note is bulk mail, junk mail, whatever you want to call it. With internet communications and regulations a lot of this mail has disappeared and it was often the payroll for many small post offices. A bulk mailer would have contracts with smaller post offices for sending things out. This mail was delivered to the post office pre sorted down to the carrier routes so that the US Post Office didn't have to do more than be sure every route bundle was in the right pouch. No sorting at any post office enroute! The originating Office got the check and these contract were often what kept small offices open and larger offices above the margins.
John WR I know that private companies offer special overnight letter delivery service as the Post Office also does, Henry. But does anyone else offer the same kind of first class mail service? The real competition here, as I understand it, is e mail. These days most of us pay our mortages and utility bills by e mail or by authorizations to make regular withdrawals from our checking accounts. I'm sure you remember when all of this was by first class mail. And then there are regular government payments. I's sure you also remember when the government made all of its payments by a physical check sent in the mail. No more. Now the Treasury Department requires everyone to use Direct Deposit which is also called Electronic Funds Transfer. Those things have cost the Post Office a lot of money. But I'm sure you are also aware that Congress has just refused to allow the Post Office to cut back from 6 day delivery to 5 day delivery so I guess not some money will have to be found to finance that. John
By law, only the United States Postal service is allowed to offer First Class Mail service in the US. UPS,Fed-Ex etc. are legally barred from competing.
IINM, there is still some USPS traffic moved on rail using TOFC?
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
What we call First Class mail, yes. But letters and correspondence, printed matter, etc. is allowed to be carried by others, they just can't call it First Class Mail. This, to me, becomes a key reason for the change from USPO to USPS, a bow to private companies to be able to take away from the Post Office as it had been. Especially desirable was the transporting and delivering of payrolls. Puralator, the oil filter people, began carrying the EL's payroll from Cleveland because they were going to the EL locations anyway, and were asilling to do it cheaper than the USPS. Eventually they sold out, I believe, to DHL which set up an operational hub in Ohio.
henry6Especially desirable was the transporting and delivering of payrolls. Puralator, the oil filter people, began carrying the EL's payroll from Cleveland because they were going to the EL locations anyway, and were asilling to do it cheaper than the USPS. Eventually they sold out, I believe, to DHL which set up an operational hub in Ohio.
I doubt any private company or the USPS carries payrolls of any significance today, Henry. The Department of the Treasury insists on Direct Deposit (Electronic Funds Transfer). If you decline to give the Treasury your bank information they just set up and account for you and send you an ATM card and let you figure out where your money is. The Treasury says to print and mail a single check costs them about $2.00. That is why they insist on Direct Deposit.
I don't know what private railroads or other private companies do but it would not surprise me if they, too, use Direct Deposit.
Muphy Siding "... And don't forget about stagecoaches. They could provide the link to those smaller towns that don't have rail service anymore. That would also boost the bottom line of the stagecoach operators. The stagecoaches could continue operating long after their economic viability had passed for them to haul mail. An added bonus, would be the revival of the bullwhip industry in America..."
"... And don't forget about stagecoaches. They could provide the link to those smaller towns that don't have rail service anymore. That would also boost the bottom line of the stagecoach operators. The stagecoaches could continue operating long after their economic viability had passed for them to haul mail. An added bonus, would be the revival of the bullwhip industry in America..."
Murphy:
Is the weather so bad in your neck of the woods ,you've turned to recreational pharmaceuticals for entertainment?
OMG!
John WR I don't know what private railroads or other private companies do but it would not surprise me if they, too, use Direct Deposit.
I think most larger companies, and maybe some smaller ones, offer and would like you to use direct deposit for pay checks. However, I don't think they can force you to do so. My wife just started a part time job for a grocery chain and elected to receive a paper check. They don't mail them out, they hand them out on pay day at the store she works at.
I use direct deposit. I started doing this after one place I worked at mailed out checks and one was delayed in the mail for about 3 days. The check really was in the mail. We also have the option to use an e-payroll to receive our stubs and W-2 reports for tax time. I don't go that far. I make them mail me that stuff. I know some have had problems printing out some of that at home, although they were able to print them out on company computers at work.
I'm enough of a Luddite that I prefer not to use electronic means for everything. I find it ironic that every where you turn you see prohibitions at work about using personnal electronic devices on duty, yet they are making access of time tables, special instructions, general orders, bulletins, etc easier for such devices. Almost to the point that it's harder to actually print out such items. More "hoops" to jump through to print them out.
Computer related, my old dinosaur finally died and we replaced it with a new one. I hate Windows 8.
Jeff
Sam- Maybe, it's that the weather is finally good, and we're giddy about it. Actually, the stagecoach idea isn't much further *out there* than putting the mail on Amtrak. If you sent me a letter that was going to ride Amtrak, the closest depot would be Omaha, Nebraska. From there, it would only be a 200 mile jaunt by stagecoach to bring the letter to my city for delivery to my mailbox. Consequently, putting mail on Amtrak makes as much sense as putting it on the stagecoach. If a guy's going to dream, he ought to dream big- and in color!ps. Some of the post offices in the rural areas are off the beaten path of the old stagecoach lines. Those might have to be serviced by Pony Express.pss. This whole Amtrak / stagecoach / Pony Express business model might be in trouble, if anyone figures out how to move mail quickly and efficiently down the highway on trucks.
jeffhergertI use direct deposit. I started doing this after one place I worked at mailed out checks and one was delayed in the mail for about 3 days.
Jeff,
Even worse, checks can get lost in the mail. Or stolen. It doesn't happen often but it does definitely happen.
Like you, I still hand on to mailed paper for some things. But as time goes on the option simply goes away. The providers just won't do it because it is so expensive. However, I don't know why IRS still requires us to mail a W-2. They have the same information electronically anyway.
Murphy Siding If you sent me a letter that was going to ride Amtrak, the closest depot would be Omaha, Nebraska. From there, it would only be a 200 mile jaunt by stagecoach to bring the letter to my city for delivery to my mailbox. Consequently, putting mail on Amtrak makes as much sense as putting it on the stagecoach.
I have the perfect solution for you, Murphy. All ;your mail goes to the Omaha Amtrak station. You get an email. "Your mail is in; come pick it up." You can go to Omaha any way you choose. You wouldn't have to do it more than twice a week so so.
John WR Murphy Siding If you sent me a letter that was going to ride Amtrak, the closest depot would be Omaha, Nebraska. From there, it would only be a 200 mile jaunt by stagecoach to bring the letter to my city for delivery to my mailbox. Consequently, putting mail on Amtrak makes as much sense as putting it on the stagecoach. I have the perfect solution for you, Murphy. All ;your mail goes to the Omaha Amtrak station. You get an email. "Your mail is in; come pick it up." You can go to Omaha any way you choose. You wouldn't have to do it more than twice a week so so. John
John WR jeffhergertI use direct deposit. I started doing this after one place I worked at mailed out checks and one was delayed in the mail for about 3 days. Jeff, Even worse, checks can get lost in the mail. Or stolen. It doesn't happen often but it does definitely happen. Like you, I still hand on to mailed paper for some things. But as time goes on the option simply goes away. The providers just won't do it because it is so expensive. However, I don't know why IRS still requires us to mail a W-2. They have the same information electronically anyway. John
Even worse - why do we have to put postage on our tax returns that get filed via US Mail. Paying for the opportunity to pay
BaltACDEven worse - why do we have to put postage on our tax returns that get filed via US Mail. Paying for the opportunity to pay
Balt,
I don't like paying taxes any better than anyone else. But I do believe taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society. If you don't want to pay the postage you can always go in person to your local IRS office and deliver your return by hand.
My own state, New Jersey, does provide a return envelope with a state income tax return. I never used it because it is oversized and requires double postage. I just use one of my own business sized envelopes.
quote user="Murphy Siding"]
"... And don't forget about stagecoaches. They could provide the link to those smaller towns that don't have rail service anymore. That would also boost the bottom line of the stagecoach operators. The stagecoaches could continue operating long after their economic viability had passed for them to haul mail.[/quote]
Unfortunately, as times changed, one thing we now have is [url=http://www.shipgreyhound.com/terms/this[/url].
Now let's figure out how the packages would get to non-bus cities. Perhaps in obsolescent trucks bought at USPS used-equipment auctions? With off-shift schoolbus-driving women so we can get additional savings as well as play the gender card effectively? (I did not believe what a Cummins 5.9 in something that size could do until I saw women doing it...) ;-}
Anyway, when we have Obama's VelociBus network set up, there will be high-speed buses to everywhere.
Murphy Sidingat might not be a bad idea.....if it wasn't breaking a federal law.
Let me be serious for a change.
Certainly trucks and planes will continue to be used to deliver the mail. But the United States Government through the Postal Service is in the mail delivery business. And the same government throuh Amtrak is in the passenger rail business. So why can't representatives of both organizations sit down and figure out how they can work together to benefit each other and the people of the USA?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.