Reply to ElCaminoManT (2-14):
Part I (of I-III)
Well, there is good news for you, ElCaminoManT, as there are some answers for you, at least half answers anyway!
The track through the San Jacinto Ave. grade crossing is the original, historic north-south alignment through downtown Perris. The contemporary platform for the Perris stop is one track alignment to the west. Since they were going to lay new track anyway, why not lay it on a straight alignment and not have to jog it over?
Yes, the old track north (and south) of San Jacinto Ave. is going to be removed completely. It would have no value whatsoever, hence, its future removal. The big difference a few miles north of downtown Perris is that there are industries and rail customers that need to be switched, and setouts and pickups made. Thus, a high speed track is being installed alongside the old one so the commuter trains would not be interfered with during switching operations. But, there are no freight customers in downtown Perris to interfere with the commuter trains, so the old track will be taken up and removed.
As far as the weird track jogging and alignment shifts in the Seventh Street vicinity that doesn’t seem to make any sense, Santa Fe’s old San Jacinto Branch line has to be looked at from a historical point of view, AND from the perspective that the Santa Fe’s old management may have had about the San Jacinto Branch. From the historical point of view, note the following previously shown photos taken back on December 26, 2012.
By the depot looking north:
Southward:
Those photos were of the track just WEST of the Perris depot. But, as seen in the below reshown photo with the RTA bus in it, the EAST crossing gate was actually EAST of the depot!
Why would the east crossing gate be that far from the branch line? Continued in Part II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part II (of I-iii)
The answer is that there used to be a track EAST of the depot, and that grade crossing track has never been removed from the grade crossing!
Looking south, note the roadway islands and that there is NO track beyond the grade crossing itself.
Just above, the current ‘mainline’ of the San Jac Branch is seen on the far right.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-III)
So, apparently, the following diagram was the track layout way over a century ago:
.
POSSIBLE PAST TRACK LAYOUT IN PERRIS
To San Diego To Highgrove---------------------------------------- \ / \ / \ / ---------------- Depot / \ / \ / \-------- ----------To San Jacinto
The track layout just before the current changes:
TRACK LAYOUT IN PERRIS
To OERM To Highgrove-------------- --------------- \ / \ / \ / ----------- Depot / / / -------- --------To San Jacinto
So, if you, ElCaminoManT, think of the track layout in the sense of elapsed time, and the railroad trying to get by with spending as little money as possible on an un-lucrative branch, the present or just recent past track layout starts to make sense.
It is hoped the above satisfactorily addresses your inquiries.
Best,
K.P.
I just love the fact that the track layout in Perris could be such a quirky mystery! Fantastic stuff, this!!
thanks for the reply K.P.
i just find it quite interesting that they left that very small section of track in place with a sign placed in between the rails with the goofy jog around it. i wonder how long it has been like that?
Have fun with your trains
vsmith (2-18):
The track by the OERM itself is used often for rides, etc. And, occasionally, a delivery of equipment movement takes place. Since the PVL track is being rebuilt on a different alignment, a track to accommodate those deliveries will have to be rebuilt on a new alignment too.
Over the years I’ve rode on trolleys and whatever on that track outside the OERM grounds. In the relatively near future, to ride all the way to downtown Perris in an old historic trolley should be a memorable experience.
Take care,
Many Surprises!
Killing Many Birds with ONE Stone
The figure of speech “killing two birds with one stone” is well known and understood. On Friday, February 20, 2015 K.P. was able to “con” his DS into letting him go halfway deep into Riverside County and check out the Perris Valley Line. (The customary assignment was taken care of too, but much shorter in duration!) But, what surprises were seen! So many surprising things were spotted that it was like ‘killing many birds with just one stone’! What a trip!
It will take a few days to put a posting series together, but as a teaser …
There is a NEW presumably intermediate northbound signal by San Jacinto Ave. in downtown Perris, but it is different than all the rest so far, in that it does NOT have a north side southbound head. The parts for the OERM switch south of downtown Perris were onsite. (You may recall ElCaminoManT and K.P. just discussed such a switch.) The dual-control switch north of Nuevo Road has taken an unexpected twist in its installation. Those wood bridges near South Perris are history and new bridge supports were being finished, and it was almost like a conductor in front of an orchestra, everybody … And, there was a large contingent working into the lowering sunlight by Mt. Vernon Ave. (and will probably do so till morning), with lines of dump trucks waiting their turn at picking up ballast, and the track east of Mt. Vernon Ave. was simply all gone!
This was one of the more interesting outings K.P. was involved in. It should be posted about soon, hopefully in a few days.
This series will be in two groups, Parts A-G, and H-N.
To enlarge, press CTRL plus the “+” key, to reduce CTRL plus the “-“ key
Many Surprises during the Friday …
… February 20, 2015 Outing
Perris-Riverside, CA
Part “A” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
This series will pretty much be in the order in which various sites were visited, and skip and a hop order as the photos were taken.
First stop was at San Jacinto Ave. in downtown Perris, where a new signal had been erected.
New sidewalks were present and crossing gate mechanisms had been erected too.
Presumably, the new signal is an intermediate, but its heads are on only one side, the south side for northward movements. Up till now NO intermediate signals have had such an arrangement, but have always had heads facing each direction.
About the grade crossing, the new arrangement here is for the sidewalk to be separate from the street.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
The original track (on the original alignment) is still within the grade crossing.
K.P. has never seen before blacktop being laid before ballast or sub-ballast.
Just above, the Perris stop’s platform is on the upper right.
That blacktop inspired K.P. to go on the platform for a better look.
K.P. left the area now for an hour to take care of some more of the ‘conning the dispatcher assignment.’
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Returning trackside on about two-hours of free time, this time by Nuevo Road, it was found that the new switch had been semi-installed.
But, the switch had a strange alignment.
Continued in Part D
Part “D” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
That strange alignment inspired a more down on look from the Nuevo Road overpass.
So, the Metrolink commuter trains will not take the turnout route as previously thought, but they will take the NEW, ANGLED STRAIGHT SWITCH ALIGNMENT.
Looking the other way, southward, the I-215 Freeway is on the left, the track on the right. All the concrete ties and ballast are in place, but NO counterpart single-direction head(s) signal is present, at least yet.
We now go back to the downtown area, to 6th Street. Looking south-like to the OERM track and the 7th Street grade crossing, where construction workers had laid new grade crossing panels for a nice vehicle ride over the tracks.
Continued in Part E
Part “E” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Looking north from 6th Street, a blacktop area has been put down, as if a switch was going in here.
Also, west of the grade crossing a big pile of ballast is now present.
Do you see what K.P. sees across the way?
Continued in Part F
Part “F” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Parts and concrete ties for assembling a switch!
Just above, look! A Union Pacific-like spring frog!
Continued in Part G
Part “G” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
A crate by and for that switch!
The sticker has a great enlightening for us!
So, it is a low speed right-handed manual one!
An overview looking north: left of the background Perris depot is a new grade crossing box (unhooked up yet), and a stack of new wood ties on the right.
Just above, that far from the depot east crossing gate is seen, and the fence (far right) that the old non-mainline track through the grade crossing straddled.
--------
Continued in Parts H-N, scheduled for posting Thursday, February 26, 2015 by 6:00 P.M. Pacific Time
K.P.:
You have provided many hundreds of interesting, highly documentative posts in this and your other SoCal railroad threads, but this has to be one of the most interesting. My, what curiosities and oddities you found!
First, how exciting to see a community's rail link come back to life! It is many a rail-fan's dream that passenger connections would come back to abandoned stations and isolated towns that they have known; and here you've cought it taking place! Imagine...you will be able to reach New York by rail from Perris, CA soon! I hope that the obvious signs of immediate change have sturred some excitment in the community.
The black-top surfaces are a mystery! It is obvious what the surface will do, but WHY? Poorly draining soil? I hope the forum can provide some answers.
That odd turnout arrangement is curious also. It would seem that a less aggressive approach would aid in passenger comfort (...or is that just your telephoto lens causing a bit of a compression to make the jog of the track look a bit more severe?).
Looking at all the odd jogs, strange turnouts, and odd inclusions, I have to chuckle-- I am reminded a novice model railroader doing very un-prototypical things on their first real layout.
And the label on the crate was very cool, too!! Again, a most interesting set of posts! Thank you!!
John
Laying blacktop on the subgrade has been seen in other projects, most notably BNSF's doubletracking of the Transcon in the Abo Canyon area. By sealing off the subgrade it ensures that drainage will be to the side of the track, not into the mud underneath. On projects like Abo Canyon it also provided dust control and an effective haul road for construction equipment. Obviously the short segments here aren't needed for that.
Part “H” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
At 7th Street, a group of workers were finishing off some type of work at the grade crossing, possibly the installation of grade crossing panels.
Looking southeast at the OERM track. The PVL track is on the far left, visually under the left crossing gate mechanism.
Looking southwest:
The OERM track is in the background.
Continued in Part I
Part “I” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
K.P. is not sure what the black wrapped items are coming up from the ground.
Looking north:
Just above, judging from the position of that blacktop patch just above the left isolated track, the PVL track will swing leftward up to that patch, with the OERM track curving over to it. We’ll have to wait and see if it works out that way.
Continued in Part J
Part “J” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
Outbound towards the South Perris station, those two old and rickety wood timbered bridges are now being replaced with pre-stressed concrete ones.
Welders seemed to be having a welder’s party, with each support being welded close to the same time.
The new track abruptly stops by the new bridges, and old track off the ways.
Continued in Part K
Part “K” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
In the Box Springs Mountain area of Riverside, near the top of the grade, the supposedly to be closed grade crossing, now has grade crossing panels in it! Looking inbound (west)
Outbound:
Continued in Part L
Part “L” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
The track is out of service and totally gone close to the bottom the Box Springs grade, at the Mt. Vernon Ave. grade crossing. View looks south.
The bus bench is for Riverside Transit Agency (RTA) patrons.
K.P. tends to park at a convenient church’s parking lot, and hike in a few hundred feet to the PVL track. The church had someone hosing down things, and K.P. was expecting for them to ask that I park elsewhere. But, they said nothing. Was he a railfan too? Perhaps he was just a nice guy!
Continued in Part M
Part “M” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
In lowering sunlight, there was a flurry of activity, with new ballast being placed over the whole section EAST of Mt. Vernon Ave. Each truck took its turn and backed into a ballast loading area, and then exited to deliver its load somewhere around the curve.
Continued in Part N
Part “N” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
The ballast pickup spot.
And heading to the unloading spot.
And around and around they went!
A bunch of concrete ties were also by Mt. Vernon Ave.
Likely that continued to take place into the night, during a window when BNSF locals would not be using the line for the weekend.
Footnote: K.P. had a surprise dispatch Monday, February 23, 2015, and while he did not visit the above area, he DID see a northward BNSF San Jac train in Highgrove, just down the way. So, the totally gone track obviously had been relayed and back in service!
This will conclude the series. However, a brief Second Section follows.
Second Section
On November 16, 2013 the Union Pacific steam people were involved in the slow movement of their then newly reacquired UP Big Boy 4-8-8-4 No. 4014 at the Pomona, CA fairgrounds. That painstakingly slow movement process was over the parking lot pavement. So, to have pavement under the weight of a train is not new. A little different, but not new!
Metrolink power and commuter cars are nowhere near the weight of UP 4014, but, nevertheless, freight trains on the line and special movements to the OERM facility are possible, and will go over that blacktop under certain sections of track in Perris.
Update as of Monday, March 2, 2015
The Mt. Vernon Ave. / Blaine Street Area
Riverside, CA
Part I (of I-IV)
From the Mt. Vernon Ave. residential grade crossing outbound up the Box Springs grade, the redoing of the track is finished.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-IV)
K.P. does not have a track redoing schedule, but Mt. Vernon Ave. west (inbound) possibly to the next grade crossing, Blaine St., should be next.
Part III (of I-IV)
Along Watkins Drive, a few blocks away from the Blaine St. grade crossing, there is a stack of ties ready for the track renewing project.
This is the rail crossing of Blaine Street, with Watkins Drive (lower part of photo) paralleling the track.
Above, as slightly discernable in the view, from left to right, the track elevates steeply.
Also above, note the TREE on the other side of and by the track on the photo far left. It was very recently trimmed. I conversed with a driver who got trapped on that track very recently, when the truck ahead of him had to surprise stop for a crosswalk-pedestrian crossing Watkins Drive. That driver was so disturbed by the experience he contacted Metrolink. Metrolink may have been the entity that trimmed the tree in response to that driver’s contacting them. Super ironically, it was just a few days later (from the contacting Metrolink) that the statically dangerous grade crossing in Oxnard had a train vs. vehicle incident that derailed the commuter train, some cars landing on their sides, and sending half the train’s passengers to the hospital. The engineer (overseeing a student engineer) died from injuries a week later.
This Metrolink cab car No. 645 (going away from the camera) was photographed at the State College Blvd. grade crossing in Anaheim on Sunday, February 15, 2015.
Nine days later it was involved in the Oxnard collision and landed turned around on its side (photo left).
The person that K.P. conversed with envisions a like grade crossing incident at Blaine Street in Riverside, with a vehicle trapped on the tracks because of a vehicle ahead surprise-stopping for a pedestrian, and a downhill cab car led Metrolink clobbering the vehicle and likely derailing and sending scores to the hospital too. It should be noted that the track crosses Blaine Street probably at a 45 degree angle, with future Metrolink inbound trains (to Los Angeles) approaching from behind a vehicle driver’s field of view.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-IV)
Concrete ties are also stationed by Blaine Street.
The walling that is up by Mt. Vernon Ave. continues past Blaine Street for a number of blocks, maybe a half a mile to a mile.
This will end the series, but a related Second Section follows.
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