Great Trick at the Riverside …
… Hunter Park Stop, Isn’t It?
How did K.P. shoot this photo if he was ON the arriving train?
Initially with plenty of time to spare as he used to regularly have on dispatches a few years ago, traffic jam after traffic jam was encountered on the freeways, so that K.P. eventually discerned he probably wasn’t going to make the South Perris stop before departure of the next inbound PVL train. End of that effort …
Sad story of futility! But, even sadder was the visual sight of the Riverside Hunter Park PVL stop that he passed on the way back, the stop where the above Friday, July 8, 2016 photo was shot at.
The Sad Hunter Park Commuter Stop
In the above mentioned Friday afternoon, an almost totally empty new parking lot, and the evening rush home hadn’t even begun yet.
In the middle photo, a contracted outfit’s security guard approached (left) to see what K.P. was doing. When that guard found out it was just a railfan, they warmed up and we had a great chat.
The handicapped parking spaces (especially the bottom photo) had NO cars in them whatsoever either. Most places seem to have a Hitler-like T-4 mentality where handicapped have no parking spaces left, and the handicapped circle and circle hoping a handicap space will open up, with sometimes AK-47 shooting fights breaking out as several continually circle the area all searching for one space. That is certainly an interesting ‘American’ way to fulfil Hilter’s dream of a ‘perfect society.’ Obviously, though, no shootout was here at an EMPTY parking lot.
Anyway, there were only a handful of parking spaces occupied in the whole big lot.
The whole place was something to see and was a sad place indeed! In the very top photo (of the train arriving), NO passengers got off nor on … only the conductor, who got off then right back on.
Speaking of the Devil and AK-47’s
The house was packed with my kids and their kids … With half still asleep a short drive to the next community was made for breakfast. Then a stop at the market, BUT, NO handicapped parking spaces was observed. I went for another ‘go around’ and some young man and his girlfriend (or his wife) suddenly quickly backed out of a parking space and crashed into K.P.’s slowly passing car! An AK-47 shootout ensued and NBC Nightly News showed up. (Just kidding on the latter two!) … Anyway, my insurance carrier said it was clearly the other person’s fault. K.P. has another vehicle he can drive, but prefers the one he usually drives, so things may be a bit slow in reporting for a few (or several) weeks …
Take care all,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Hey, mvs!
K.P. Joined You in the …
… Ranks of PVL Riders!
Tuesday, July 12, 2016 a Perris Valley Line ride from South Perris to downtown Riverside roundtrip was made. Cool trip!
Fifty-four photos were taken with his old camera. In a few days a brief presentation of the trip is hoped to be put together.
A Roundtrip on the PVL
July 12, 2016
Part “A” (of A-H)
Unlike Lancaster, San Bernardino, etc., a Perris Valley Line (PVL) commuter run does NOT stay at the end of the line stop, but rather goes to a staging or waiting area away from the stop. My train came out to the station stop just a few minutes before departure time.
It soon departed, and passes the first grade crossing.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-H)
After the downtown Perris stop, the inbound Metrolink gets parallel to the I-215 Freeway. In the Van Buren Blvd. area we go at speed by BNSF short-term stored Intermodal well cars, including power that includes BNSF 6613.
Then we come to the Moreno Valley / March Field stop.
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-H)
Later, we slowly (“slowly”) go down the Box Springs Mountain grade, and immediately pass that closed to the public Poarch Road grade crossing.
As we go down, down, down the Box Springs grade, and pass that controversial area where in the lawsuit the judge went in favor of those that sued the PVL people.
Just above, on the far right, is that pathway the judge said had to be dealt will. Things were coming and going so fast it was hard to know what to photograph. K.P. knows now what to watch for next time.
The Mt. Vernon Ave. grade crossing and intermediate signal:
Continued in Part D
Part “D” (of A-H)
After the above, K.P. just watched the scene to downtown Riverside:
Continued in Part E
Part “E” (of A-H)
On the outbound end was the class locomotive, 851 from EMD
An interior shot of the car seats was taken. The seat is thin and looks uncomfortable in the buttocks area when entering and exiting the seat, and THAT sort of throws one off balance a bit.
When leaving the BNSF, the PVL curves sharply. On the outbound trip, with 851 leading, the train took the curve super slowly.
At the Hunter Park stop and leaving it outbound, we start up the steep grade:
Continued in Part F
Part “F” (of A-H)
We go up the grade, go under Highway 60, curve around a bit, and come to CP EASTRIDGE, where the BNSF gets on the parallel old track, and we start following the I-215 Freeway.
The Moreno Valley stop:
Paralleling the I-215 Freeway southbound at speed, generally the motorists and the train pretty much stayed even with each other.
Continued in Part G
Part “G” (of A-H)
We arrive at the South Perris stop.
Note that signal has the lower light off. It was actually on, but the camera caught the light off while red over FLASHING red.
The train went further outbound to a South Perris yard of sorts.
The east westbound signals of CP MAPES:
Continued in Part H
Part “H” (of A-H)
Some last views:
Trying to enjoy the ride AND document the scene with a camera is challenging, especially for the first roundtrip. K.P. can hardly wait to ride again, as he already has a mental list of follow-up photos for next time …
On the way back to base, after some things, it was about time for another inbound train to pass Poarch Road.
It came as expected. It was on the descending grade and going quite slow as when K.P. rode it just a few hours earlier.
This will conclude the series.
K. P. HarrierThe Sad Hunter Park Commuter Stop In the above mentioned Friday afternoon, an almost totally empty new parking lot, and the evening rush home hadn’t even begun yet.
Not seeing any other walking human in the above photos, it looks like ridership is appallingly low. Any rough estimates?
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
MikeF90 K. P. Harrier The Sad Hunter Park Commuter Stop In the above mentioned Friday afternoon, an almost totally empty new parking lot, and the evening rush home hadn’t even begun yet. Not seeing any other walking human in the above photos, it looks like ridership is appallingly low. Any rough estimates?
K. P. Harrier The Sad Hunter Park Commuter Stop In the above mentioned Friday afternoon, an almost totally empty new parking lot, and the evening rush home hadn’t even begun yet.
ccltrainsIs there sufficient ROW should traffic increase enough to warrant double tracking? Why the BNSF engine?
- the ROW should be wide enough for some 2MT if traffic increases enough (way in the future). Posters elsewhere have noted that there isn't a single CTC controlled passing siding anywhere on the new line.
- the BNSF engines are leased to 'protect' the cabcar end due to the perceived collision protection deficiencies of the new Hyundai Rotem cabcars. Metrolink has approved funding to repair the cabcars, not sure if they will seek reimbursement from H-R.
Note to @ccltrains, you might edit your above post to remove duplicate quotes.
Mike is right -- it's basially CTC single track from Highgrove/Northeast Riverside to South Perris. They might as well have rebuilt the second track through Moreno Valley which BNSF uses, but that's not a priority given the ridership levels.
It would be a tough sell to extend the line to Hemet/San Jacinto, but that would help ridership. I think that not having a stop near UC Riverside (instead of the Hunter Park industrial area) hurts too.
K.P., how was the ridership on your trains?
P.S. -- there is a good Mexican restaurant (Taqueria 2 Potrillos) within walking distance of the Perris Downtown station.
Rode the Perris Valley Line on Thursday. Took the inbound Perris South to Riverside Downtown leaving at 7:45AM. There were five of us total waiting at Perris South for the train. We picked up one person at Perris Downtown, nobody on or off at Moreno Valley, two off at Hunter Park and then four off at Riverside Downtown.
On the immediate return train, leaving at 9:10AM, my friend and I were the only riders on the whole train for the entire trip to South Perris.
Now, take into account these two trains don't continue onto LA or start from there, so those trains that start/end in LA probably have higher ridership, but given the vehicles parked in the lots at the four stations, not much higher. I believe that this line wouldn't see much higher ridership until the first gas price spike, only then will those thousands of cars on I-215, looking across the field at the Metrolink trains parked at South Perris will switch over to the train.
BNSF6400I believe that this line wouldn't see much higher ridership until the first gas price spike, only then will those thousands of cars on I-215, looking across the field at the Metrolink trains parked at South Perris will switch over to the train.
Also, RCTC & Metrolink need more than ever to think outside of their 'commuter rail' box. Besides better surveys about where folks Really Need to go (with at most one bus/rail transfer), perhaps some trains should be timed for special events and destinations.
Angels baseball games? A backup move at Orange would be needed. March Field Museum and SCRM (OERM) on the weekends? Would need good connections from other Metrolink service, uh, oh ....
I agree with both of you. Unfortunately, the trains don't easily serve San Bernardino line destinations.
This Perris Valley Line -- as well as any extensions to Temecula, such as the original ATSF branch from Corona southward -- could be the final frontier (so to speak) for Metrolink. There is so much potential, since so many people live out there.
About the Low Ridership
Another perspective, different from what other forum contributors have mentioned, is that Metrolink may (“may”) be testing the ridership, seeing what pops up. Conspicuously absent is advertising, at least as far K.P. can tell … In theory, from feedback maybe in another three months Metrolink would have a good sense of when people want to ride, and adjust the PVL schedule accordingly, and then spend bigtime on advertising.
The F125’s
The photo outfit rrpicturearchives.net has a few photos of the new F125 unit No. 905, one shot at Union Station in Los Angeles by photographer Craig Walker, linked below.
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4506476
That outfit also has a real gem of a photo also by Mr. Walker too …
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4506477
In that just above linked photo, did you see No. 905’s serial number? It ends with 003. So, the real first unit, serial No. 001, should be No. 903 whenever that is delivered. The present fleet of old power ends with No. 902.
mvs (7-16):
Ridership was very poor on the trips I took. A small number got on at South Perris, and likewise in Riverside for the return trip.
The Maturing of the South Perris Stop
As the forum knows, I’ve been by South Perris before, matter of fact a number of times. This past train trip the construction had matured greatly, with ‘No Parking’ signs in great numbers. So, photographers may find it challenging to get photos now, unless they are willing to hike in, park on Metrolink property, or out by Case Road. No signs are along that road, at least yet.
Once upon a Time and …
… a Daring Prediction
Once upon a time my wife (so I know for a fact this is true) was on the freeway, in the No. 1 lane. A gentleman in the No. 2 lane decided to pass a slower vehicle and entered the No. 1 lane and crashed right into my wife’s car at speed! Why did he crash into my wife’s car? Because he fell asleep right then in changing lanes! It had been somewhere between 4:30 and 6 A.M., on a crowded rush hour morning freeway commute. Everyone was OK … well, sort of. My wife ended up undergoing a number of months of therapy for a neck problem because of the high speed incident.
So weird, unexpected things happen! Like last year’s Metrolink Oxnard incident, where cab car No. 645 hit a pickup truck on the track and ended up on its side facing the opposite direction than it had been traveling. No. 645 was one of the new Hyundai-Rotem ‘strong’ wonder cars.
This forum contributor daringly predicts such an incident will happen on the Perris Valley Line, inbound somewhere between the top of the Box Springs grade in Riverside and the connection to the BNSF Transcon, involving either a large truck (possibly an 18-wheeler) with a sleepy driver, a suicidal fool in an auto, or a trapped driver in traffic suddenly realized their peril and bailing out of their vehicle. (I have a gut feeling about where, but I’ll let the forum ponder that. But know THIS RAILFAN actually got trapped on the tracks there, and railfans just don’t normally get trapped on tracks anywhere!). Because of low ridership a fatality or fatalities is unlikely (unless this happens several years in the future or if one of the older Metrolink cars disintegrates in the incident), but the incident likely will be THE defining moment for cab cars … unless the NTSB uses the Oxnard happening to solidify certain thinking against the use of cab cars leading …
K. P. HarrierBut know THIS RAILFAN actually got trapped on the tracks there,
May I assume that the gates are not four quadrant and that your being trapped was due to an error on your part in entering before the preceeding vehicle cleared? Was this a crossing with a stop light on the side distant from where you were coming from? Was there a red light that turned green after the flashers started? (An eternity after it seemed?) PPD (Piss Poor Design) of an intersection that the highway planners like to build.
Electroliner 1935 (7-19):
I’m not sure ‘error’ is the right word, but things very much turned out quite differently from what was reasonably expected, kind of an extenuating circumstance thing, but I sure learned a thing or two from the experience. A high truck was ahead of me, with its right turn signal flashing. When it got a green traffic signal it quickly crossed the track and was about to turn right, but suddenly stopped quickly because pedestrians were in the crosswalk, which by the lowering angled intersection’s nature, they could not be seen by me. So, Mr. Safety got fooled! I wasn’t too concerned about a train coming from the angled track sort of behind me, though, because I had just followed the tracks from Perris and there were no trains in that stretch, and it was a weekend. But, it won’t happen again for sure!
It is hoped to be able to get back over to that grade crossing / intersection within a month and take photos for the forum.
Best,
As a retired member of the Board of Directors of Dallas Area Rapid Transit I can offer some insight into train/car crashes. We have several places where the track is next to a road. Even with gates and flashing lights there were a few collisions. This came from the citizens not expecting a train in a "new" area. After a couple months people became aware of an active rail line and accidents decreased. As to signals and gates where a road crosses the line we syncronized traffic lights with train crossings with extra warning signs. This has led to a safe crossing.
Is This the Next Metrolink …
… Cab Car Crash Site?
Part I (of I-IV)
You can make up your own mind, but K.P. envisions another (“another”) spectacular commuter train crash. It seems the Blaine Street (the grade crossing) and Watkins Drive (that parallels the track) is made for such a crash, and now that commuter trains traverse this ex-BNSF (Santa Fe) branch it is very, very likely in K.P.’s opinion. The following and following posts outlines with photos the logic in this.
WEST of the Blaine Street grade crossing, a view looking east with a heavy telephoto lens:
As discernable above, Blaine Street is a long descending road as it goes east to west, towards the camera. Box Springs Mountains is in the background.
Another heavy telephoto, but this time EAST of the grade crossing, looking down west:
Again, just above, note that the line of sight view of the right flashers and crossing gates are blocked.
By the grade crossing, looking west: Once a vehicle clears those blocking tree limbs (mentioned above), the right side flashers are directly seen. However, a sign initially partially blocks the view of pedestrians.
Just east of the grade crossing, clear instructions for motorists that are not distracted and manage to see the lettering.
Reference the second photo from the top, before that “KEEP CLEAR” marking is another phrase, “WAIT HERE.”
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-IV)
On the other side of the grade crossing, but before the Watkins Drive cross street, “KEEP CLEAR” is also present.
Pretty straight forward and seemingly easy to follow instructions for motorists … or is it?
What happens to a motorist that catches a yellow light, and the person decides he probably can’t make it so stops, cross traffic starts, and THEN the crossing gates activate?
Will a motorist freeze if caught between crossing gates?
Mind you, above, a west traveling motorist coming at the camera can NOT normally see an approaching right to left train (coming towards the camera) because of the angle!
As of the above date, both BNSF power and just cab cars lead inbound commuter trains. A Metrolink unit usually leads outbound commuter sets.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-IV)
Suppose an inbound cab car strikes a stopped vehicle on the tracks, or a moving vehicle that didn’t see the flashers or was just daydreaming and otherwise in la-la land. If a BNSF unit is leading the inbound train, poor driver. If a cab car is leading, poor cab car! It may or may not stay on the track. If it derails, look what it will encounter!
Will the cab car go down the embankment and end up semi-upside down?
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-IV)
Oh, oh! Look at that new car that practically stopped on the track!
Is this intersection solvable? It may or may not be.
Since pedestrians can surprise motorists and put them in awkward situations, a pedestrians ONLY stoplight cycle would solve that but impede traffic flows.
K.P. sees this as a candidate for an underpass. This residential-commercial tight-quarters area would have engineering challenges in designing an underpass.
A number of big flash signs might scare motorists into following instructions. Otherwise, the situation seems to be an impossible one. An underpass may be the only real solution.
This will end the series.
Riding the Perris Valley Line …
… and Having Twice the Fun!
Riding the PVL is fun! K.P. spent SEVEN hours having such fun. NOT to Los Angeles (PVL / 91 Line), but just the South Perris to Riverside portion. Twice, too! It was a most memorable experience to say the least.
A Hyundai-Rotom car’s interior, upper level:
Passing the site of the past legal controversy relative to a trail used by school kids and hikers, the trail (lower right) is now fenced off well with children or anyone else not able to cross the track:
The camera snapped 286 photos, a small portion of which will be used to convey the day’s story. K.P. is shooting for the latter part of next week for a presentation.
K.P. -- how was ridership on your various trips? Looking forward to the pictures.
Friday, September 2, 2016 Trips Report
Posting Schedule
Sunday, September 11, 2016: Parts A-H
Tuesday, September 13, 2016: Parts I-O
Thursday, September 15, 2016: P-Y
All posts should be up by 9:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time on the scheduled date.
Part “A” (of A-H, Overall A-Y)
From base, on the way to the South Perris stop, since I was early, a stop was made at the Downtown Perris stop. A railroad speed sign popped out: 60 M.P.H.!
I don’t know about that. A deadhead move (do those things happen?) theoretically can zoom by kids on the platform awfully fast …
Looking south, it was noted the outbound signal by 4th Street was lit flashing yellow.
Looking north, the outbound train soon comes.
Doesn’t the above scene look like it was taken up in the San Bernardino Mountains, perhaps at Big Bear where there is a whole bunch of pine trees?
Part “B” (of A-H, Overall A-Y)
The outbound train passes and stops …
… and quickly heads to the end of the line.
Part “C” (of A-H, Overall A-Y)
At South Perris, the fare ticketing is purchased, and the place looked over.
The wheelchair handicapped ramp (above) was looked over. K.P. has more interest in such things than most, as over 20 years ago he was confined to a wheelchair for a few years.
We wait by the covered ticket machine area.
And, the train finally comes out, and is boarded.
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