K. P. Harrier My gut is that those yellow and black vertical items are an effort to thwart vehicles from getting on the track(s). The black items may even be interlocked with the signal and Positive Train Control systems, though I am on shaky ground with that theory.
I had thought the answer was much simpler than this -- that the two 'black objects' actually just concrete-filled bollards intended to keep traffic from getting down the 'shoulders' of track adjacent to the crossing, and the 'yellow objects' are pipe stanchions; there will be chains or similar material stretching between those rings to prevent people from walking between them.
The problem with the bollards is that nearly anyone making the mistake of turning onto the railroad at the crossing would either stop short of contacting the bollards, or turn into the active volume of track to avoid them. So it might make sense to build them to contain magnetic anomaly detectors or whatever, that would work with the signal system to tell if something magnetic with lower mass than a train were present far enough off the crossing to signify a wrong turn. Then their position makes better sense -- they will detect a vehicle on the track between them, but will not 'go off' if even a heavy vehicle is crossing normally.
A Special Memo to John Simpkins-Camp and All
Welcome to the Twilight Zone!
Those black vertical items trackside have caused quite a stir here at the forum.
After taking care of an important scheduled dispatch earlier this morning, a return to the River Crest Drive grade crossing in eastern Riverside (CA) was made, BUT those black items were no longer visible!
However, they ARE there, right in front of us … for this is the Twilight Zone!
Seriously, somewhere in the above view a pipe is buried in the ballast with a somewhat clear-like lid on it. Several other grade crossings were checked, and the same arrangement is at them too. Close-ups were taken of the glass-like lids, and the tubing under them.
The day before, Friday, K.P. went to Bakersfield and Tehachapi to photograph events for the thread on the Tehachapi two-tracking, followed up by today’s travels. Exhausting, to say the least! Then, two forest fires in the Cajon Pass area wrecked-havoc with the power, and electricity was out for hours! Otherwise, this post would have been posted much earlier. But, K.P. will try to put something together in the next few days for the forum’s evaluation on this odd development.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K. P. HarrierUpdate as of Friday, July 10, 2015 Another northward view, with the BNSF trusses in the background.
Another northward view, with the BNSF trusses in the background.
K.P.,
Thank you again for these great pictures. Progress is definitely being made.
From your above photo, I have a comment/question for the forum -- here, there is obviously one "main" route and one "diverging" route. However, Metrolink has Burbank Junction and the junction in Orange, where there doesn't seem to be a "main" route or a "diverging" route. Interesting that Metrolink didn't take that approach here.
K.P.:
Thanks for making another stop at River Crest Drive. So then, they were conduits of some sort?
Could these have anything to do with Positive Train Control? Considering the upcoming PTC deadline and the construction period of the PVL, might they be related?
--John
The black pipes are of a type and size commonly used for landscape drains. They may also be a very large size of what's known in the communications industry as "interduct" or "innerduct" which is used to protect cables - usually fiber obtic - in environments where direct contact with the environment isn't desirable. It's similar to the split conduit found on under-hood wiring in your car.
Having said all that I can't come up with a therory for why they're there...
A Reply and …
mvs (7-19):
About Orange and signals thereat … On February 22, 2015, I actually was in Orange. The east track (of two) had a red over green.
An inbound (to Los Angeles) Amtrak soon came by, and took the curved route to Anaheim and Los Angeles.
That red over green signal apparently displays red over green if a train is routed to Anaheim and Los Angeles, OR to utilize the crossover. It is high green if the train is routed to Riverside. That straight route has a siding within that interlocking, and because any train routed in that side likely would be limited to 30 M.P.H., a red over yellow should suffice.
Burbank Junction is basically of the same layout, at least in principal. So, a right running train headed to Oxnard should get a red over green, the same as at Orange in the top photo above.
It is unknown if you’ve been to Mojave (CA) lately on the east slope of Tehachapi Pass, but I was there this past Friday, and UP recently revamped the signals thereat, converting them from targets to color lights. Main 1 (that ends) uses a red over type signal, so there doesn’t seem to be a way for a train to distinguish from the signal display which route it will go on, the BNSF or UP. A photo of that odd arrangement will be posted within three or four days in the Tehachapi two-tracking thread. You may fine the future post photos thought-provoking.
For Those Curious about Those Strange Black Things
Watch for the posting on all this within one or two days. Personally, I don’t know what I photographed, but things were even stranger. Maybe you will be able to come up with something AFTER seeing all the photos …
Best,
K.P.
Pondering the Mysterious with Updated Visuals
Part I (of I-V)
The previously posted photo from Friday, July 10, 2015 showed by River Crest Drive in eastern Riverside, big black vertical ‘things’ trackside coming up from the ground by yellow posts.
On Saturday, July 18, 2015, K.P. returned, and found the black ‘things’ seemed to have vanished.
What the forum was not shown in the teaser post was that some type of burial items in their places was photographed.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-V)
A search of other grade crossing with such items was pursued. At the Poarch Rd. grade crossing near the top of the Box Springs grade, NO such type of items was spotted. HOWEVER, the closed grade crossing was oddly now open again!
Plastic covered red closed signs.
The north side had a similar treatment, but less covered.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-V)
The mast signals at Poarch Rd. still have not received number plates.
From the north side looking south: The number of yellow poles are inordinately numerous here, obviously with an eye to protecting the mast signals.
We now move down to the two-lane Mt. Vernon Ave. grade crossing. It was more revealing.
A turquoise item seemed to have been run over by construction workers, and a pipe hole was present, with the pipe bending underground.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-V)
A lid was very nearby.
It might be that the pipes are used to drain water that might build up by the grade crossing, though K.P. is not sure if that sound logical or not.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-V)
The yellow posts have loop rings, as if mental rope was going to connect each yellow post.
Lastly, a southward overview:
While we don’t know what the official word is on the strange buried items is, at least we have a halfway good overview of the situation on the Perris Valley Line by the Box Springs Mountains.
This will conclude the series.
Looks like stormwater drains to me, incuding the corrugated plastic hose. Only question is what the hoses are connected to.
- Erik
erikem Looks like stormwater drains to me, incuding the corrugated plastic hose. Only question is what the hoses are connected to. - Erik
Look for a bulkhead (sort of like one end of a culvert) leading to a natural drain path.
All:
Does anyone think that these "whatever-they-are" would interfere with future tamping of the track?
Also, it seems like a Jordan-spreader might catch them in its blades, but this is just speculation.
--J
More than likely the pipes are laid beyond the reach of these machines.
Update as of Thursday, July 30, 2015
Brief Review of the Riverside-Moreno Valley Area
Part “A” (of A-B)
At the Marlborough Ave. stop in Riverside, the parking lot has been partially paved.
A northward view:
Across from that parking lot, looking south, the track on lower portion of the photo is the new connector to the Riverside Industrial Lead, which the BNSF had agreed to take up switching duties on. In the background the Perris Valley Line climbs the grade, with some type of work progressing
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-B)
At Mt. Vernon Ave. the not activated signal still has not had number plates affixed. The same situation exits a couple of miles further outbound, towards the top of the Box Springs grade, by the Poarch Rd. grade crossing
One thing that strikes a person traveling through this area is the steepness of the rail line, possibly a 3% grade. Fred Perris who surveyed the original line staked out a portion of the line in Cajon Pass with a 3% grade.
At the March Field / Moreno Valley stop beyond the top of the grade, has had the future parking lot well graded, light all in place, and some type of covering was being built..
One thing that very much strikes a person on site is the vastness of the March Field / Moreno Valley commuter stop parking facility. In the above views, it continues out of site on the right, perhaps a city block behind the camera. There is now a roadway connecting the new parking lot with the commercial parking lot that the just above photos were taken from.
This will conclude the two-part update series.
Update as of Wednesday, August 6, 2015
K.P, was by the new signaling off the 60 Freeway, at Poarch Road in the Box Springs area, and the mast there with covered signal heads facing both ways still has not been number plated yet.
What is Happening Nearby …
… and a Look at Possibilities
Part I (of I-VI)
This is a brief look at current developments near (“near”) the Perris Valley Line, like San Bernardino, and how those developments may interact with the PVL.
The east end of the San Bernardino Line is being extended eastward a mile or two to “E” Street, over the old Santa Fe “Redlands Loop” that went to Redlands and back another way. Two westward, inbound status views friom "E" Street:
An eastward view:
Part II (of I-VI)
The north-south “E” Street is now the route of the “SBX” (San Bernardino Express) bus, and a BUS stop is in the middle “E” Street by the Metrolink RAIL stop.
Boarding and exiting those buses is in the CENTER of the street. The buses have LEFT side of the bus doors!
The south side of the RAIL stop is having some type of platform (assumedly) being put in.
Part III (of I-VI)
Leaving that “E” Street Stop the line curves north before reaching the east-west San Bernardino Line route, and in transitioning to that north axis goes diagonally through the intersection of “I” Street and Rialto Ave.
North to east views:
The left crossing gate (middle photo above) is on (for) “I” Street. The original Pacific Electric line from near 100 years ago went crossing the view (again, middle view), in that dark patch in the photo center.
Part IV (of I-VI)
When that new mile or two westward route gets to the present San Bernardino terminal, will it interact with the PVL in some way? K.P. hasn’t heard anything, but the below diagram is an operating possibility.
.
To Los Angeles San Bernardino----------------------------------------Via the San Bernardino /Line / / / /To Los Angeles /----------------------------------------Via the 91 Line Riverside To Perris
So, theoretically, besides the 91 Line continuing east to Perris, the San Bernardino Line could have a few trains back (cab car forward) to Riverside, then go forward to Perris. That would broaden the PVL base ridership’s opportunity to commute to other areas, like Pomona, Covina, and El Monte. Whether that is in the great master plan is unknown, but the startup of the PVL is initially supposed to only utilize 91 Line to get to Los Angeles.
Part V (of I-VI)
Just to further the forum’s awareness, the area by the old San Bernardino Santa Fe Depot is shown, of the current construction and what that construction looks like.
The camera had a wide angle lens on it (above photo), and since the throngs at the depot were awaiting the arrival of Amtrak #4, K.P. went to his vehicle to put on a telephoto lens. Sure enough, that is when #4 came and photographing the power was missed! Oh well.
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-VI)
The Perris Valley Line’s end of the line stop has not been finished yet, nor does K.P. know the future track arrangement at that South Perris stop. But, likely it won’t have much track, unlike the San Bernardino stop that stores trains and cars overnight all over the place. One place:
There has been some speculation and talk among officials that the Perris Valley Line might be extended to Hemet, possibly even on a separate route to Murrieta. If they even think of that, what stops them from imagining going to Oceanside sort of via the old, abandoned California Southern route surveyed by Fred Perris?
That route is believed to have passed the below ex-wye area in Fallbrook, and ran from the lower right to the center right.
An aerial of that ex-wye area: The CS line, from Cajon Pass and Perris (NOT South Perris), from the top of the view curved to the southwest (lower left) in that aerial.
http://binged.it/1MT5vKM
There are a few places in Fallbrook that that old California Southern route, now trackless, can still be seen. From Fallbrook to Oceanside the old right-of-way is plainly visible on aerials, but unfortunately, the old line went through what is now Camp Pendleton, and that is off limits to civilians.
Interestingly, Oceanside has a maintenance facility. The idea of an Oceanside to San Bernardino line via Perris and Riverside opens up some fascinating possibilities. And, even so maintenance-wise since San Bernardino (technically Colton) has a maintenance facility too! But, first, the PVL must open … and that is now not that far away.
This will end the series.
The original CS line had a separate right of way. Just north of the Fallbrook wye it ran more parallel to the Santa Margarita River and it went over the outskirts of Fallbrook, northwest to northeast towards Temecula. The line over the Temecula Canyon ran basically hugging the river, thus the reason why it washed out and the Santa Fe rebuilt the line in the late 1800's from the Fallbrook wye a little south thru what is now several military complexes all the way to the Fallbrook wye, which was ALWAYS a stub end till abandonment in the 70's, when the last customers quit the railroad. The line survived till the early 90's (when it was washed out again) up to the Fallbrook Weapons station, operated by the military and interchanging with the Santa Fe at the wye. Much of the track is still there covered in brush.
So the CS survives in two parts:
-Southern end rom National City, north to the Fallbrook wye.
-The northern end would be from the southern end of track at OERM, north to San Bernardino/Barstow...
Update as of Tuesday, August 11, 2015
The South Perris Area
K.P. had about 45 minutes of free time in Perris, and the South Perris stop and bridges in that area were going to be checked out and photographed. But, coming up from the south, parallel to the track a road closed sign put an end to that plan!
It seemed to be infuriating locals too! One sign gave a period of closure to be maybe ten days, if K.P. recalls correctly.
In-lieu-of South Perris, downtown Perris was went to, via a long, circuitous detour. A few photos taken in downtown Perris will be shared in a few days. An opposite end view of Case Rd. was had, though, on that detour. It looked like Case Rd. was being converted from a two lane road to a five lane one. Anyway, a 4th Street downtown Perris post or two will be forthcoming in a few days, including a close-up of a crossing gate type K.P. has never seen the likes of before.
A Review of the New 4th Street Grade Crossing
Perris, CA
Previously, photos of the new crossing gates and block signal were taken from the south side of 4th Street, in Perris. On the Tuesday, August 11, 2015 visit, what was on the north side of 4th Street was photographed.
Two views of the unusual combined overhead flashers on a mast and the crossing gate motor extending out from the same mast.
Looking south (outbound):
You may not have noticed it, but on the background right it looks like poles have been placed, poles likely for a future chain link fence.
A northward (inbound) view: Note the yellow vertical poles on the right.
Another possible drainage hole is by those yellow vertical poles, just north of 4th Street.
Above, out of view on the foreground left, the land is being rearranged and light standards are being put in.
That future parking lot area is currently fenced off.
An eastward view, with the old Santa Fe depot in sight:
Lastly, there have been certain curiosities about locomotive power on order, the 20 EMD F125’s. Wikipedia has some when’s that they might arrive and other details.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F125
A Review of the Spruce Street Grade Crossing
Riverside, CA
Part I (of I-II)
The Spruce Street grade crossing in Riverside, CA, is at M.P. 2.2, and is on a steep grade, possibly 3% as the original line between Cajon and Summit in Cajon Pass on the San Diego to Barstow line.
An inbound view from Spruce Street:
An outbound view:
Above, the walling (left) from the ‘Friends’ lawsuit as well as the fencing present (right) make the right-of-way pretty secure.
On the north side of Spruce Street, looking west: The stop sign on the other side of the grade crossing puts an element of risk to westbound vehicles traversing the route!
Unrelated, one of the most petrifying grade crossings K.P. had ever seen was one in El Monte, CA, maybe 55 years ago, on the then Southern Pacific Sunset Route. This grade crossing has a certain semblance to it. Somehow K.P. envisions the crossing gates will be relocated sometime in the future …
Part II (of I-II)
Yellow poles here too suggests to motorists not to go down the right-of-way.
The multiplicity of crossing gate devices are equal on both sides of the street. View looks outbound to Perris.
This will conclude the two part series.
-----------
K.P. had opportunity to photograph the South Perris stop Saturday, August 22, 2015, and that will be the theme of a posting in a day or two. Case Road did NOT change with its recent road closure. However, it appears the closure was to bury a large pipe across the roadway near the South Perris stop.
The South Perris Stop
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 K.P. had opportunity to photograph the latest on the South Perris stop, including developments at the ‘end of the line.’
The South Perris stop has had the platform’s concrete poured.
A covering type structure has been erected on that platform. The below view shows that struction and platform in relation to the end-of-the-line CP and microwave tower:
Construction now has reached Mapes Road.
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