Many Surprises during the Friday …
… February 20, 2015 Outing
Perris-Riverside, CA
Part “C” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Returning trackside on about two-hours of free time, this time by Nuevo Road, it was found that the new switch had been semi-installed.
But, the switch had a strange alignment.
Continued in Part D
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part “B” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
The original track (on the original alignment) is still within the grade crossing.
K.P. has never seen before blacktop being laid before ballast or sub-ballast.
Just above, the Perris stop’s platform is on the upper right.
That blacktop inspired K.P. to go on the platform for a better look.
K.P. left the area now for an hour to take care of some more of the ‘conning the dispatcher assignment.’
Continued in Part C
This series will be in two groups, Parts A-G, and H-N.
To enlarge, press CTRL plus the “+” key, to reduce CTRL plus the “-“ key
Part “A” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
This series will pretty much be in the order in which various sites were visited, and skip and a hop order as the photos were taken.
First stop was at San Jacinto Ave. in downtown Perris, where a new signal had been erected.
New sidewalks were present and crossing gate mechanisms had been erected too.
Presumably, the new signal is an intermediate, but its heads are on only one side, the south side for northward movements. Up till now NO intermediate signals have had such an arrangement, but have always had heads facing each direction.
About the grade crossing, the new arrangement here is for the sidewalk to be separate from the street.
Continued in Part B
Many Surprises!
Killing Many Birds with ONE Stone
The figure of speech “killing two birds with one stone” is well known and understood. On Friday, February 20, 2015 K.P. was able to “con” his DS into letting him go halfway deep into Riverside County and check out the Perris Valley Line. (The customary assignment was taken care of too, but much shorter in duration!) But, what surprises were seen! So many surprising things were spotted that it was like ‘killing many birds with just one stone’! What a trip!
It will take a few days to put a posting series together, but as a teaser …
There is a NEW presumably intermediate northbound signal by San Jacinto Ave. in downtown Perris, but it is different than all the rest so far, in that it does NOT have a north side southbound head. The parts for the OERM switch south of downtown Perris were onsite. (You may recall ElCaminoManT and K.P. just discussed such a switch.) The dual-control switch north of Nuevo Road has taken an unexpected twist in its installation. Those wood bridges near South Perris are history and new bridge supports were being finished, and it was almost like a conductor in front of an orchestra, everybody … And, there was a large contingent working into the lowering sunlight by Mt. Vernon Ave. (and will probably do so till morning), with lines of dump trucks waiting their turn at picking up ballast, and the track east of Mt. Vernon Ave. was simply all gone!
This was one of the more interesting outings K.P. was involved in. It should be posted about soon, hopefully in a few days.
vsmith (2-18):
The track by the OERM itself is used often for rides, etc. And, occasionally, a delivery of equipment movement takes place. Since the PVL track is being rebuilt on a different alignment, a track to accommodate those deliveries will have to be rebuilt on a new alignment too.
Over the years I’ve rode on trolleys and whatever on that track outside the OERM grounds. In the relatively near future, to ride all the way to downtown Perris in an old historic trolley should be a memorable experience.
Take care,
K.P.
Have fun with your trains
thanks for the reply K.P.
i just find it quite interesting that they left that very small section of track in place with a sign placed in between the rails with the goofy jog around it. i wonder how long it has been like that?
I just love the fact that the track layout in Perris could be such a quirky mystery! Fantastic stuff, this!!
Reply to ElCaminoManT (2-14):
Part III (of I-III)
So, apparently, the following diagram was the track layout way over a century ago:
.
POSSIBLE PAST TRACK LAYOUT IN PERRIS
To San Diego To Highgrove---------------------------------------- \ / \ / \ / ---------------- Depot / \ / \ / \-------- ----------To San Jacinto
The track layout just before the current changes:
TRACK LAYOUT IN PERRIS
To OERM To Highgrove-------------- --------------- \ / \ / \ / ----------- Depot / / / -------- --------To San Jacinto
So, if you, ElCaminoManT, think of the track layout in the sense of elapsed time, and the railroad trying to get by with spending as little money as possible on an un-lucrative branch, the present or just recent past track layout starts to make sense.
It is hoped the above satisfactorily addresses your inquiries.
Best,
Part II (of I-iii)
The answer is that there used to be a track EAST of the depot, and that grade crossing track has never been removed from the grade crossing!
Looking south, note the roadway islands and that there is NO track beyond the grade crossing itself.
Just above, the current ‘mainline’ of the San Jac Branch is seen on the far right.
Continued in Part III
Part I (of I-III)
Well, there is good news for you, ElCaminoManT, as there are some answers for you, at least half answers anyway!
The track through the San Jacinto Ave. grade crossing is the original, historic north-south alignment through downtown Perris. The contemporary platform for the Perris stop is one track alignment to the west. Since they were going to lay new track anyway, why not lay it on a straight alignment and not have to jog it over?
Yes, the old track north (and south) of San Jacinto Ave. is going to be removed completely. It would have no value whatsoever, hence, its future removal. The big difference a few miles north of downtown Perris is that there are industries and rail customers that need to be switched, and setouts and pickups made. Thus, a high speed track is being installed alongside the old one so the commuter trains would not be interfered with during switching operations. But, there are no freight customers in downtown Perris to interfere with the commuter trains, so the old track will be taken up and removed.
As far as the weird track jogging and alignment shifts in the Seventh Street vicinity that doesn’t seem to make any sense, Santa Fe’s old San Jacinto Branch line has to be looked at from a historical point of view, AND from the perspective that the Santa Fe’s old management may have had about the San Jacinto Branch. From the historical point of view, note the following previously shown photos taken back on December 26, 2012.
By the depot looking north:
Southward:
Those photos were of the track just WEST of the Perris depot. But, as seen in the below reshown photo with the RTA bus in it, the EAST crossing gate was actually EAST of the depot!
Why would the east crossing gate be that far from the branch line? Continued in Part II
John Simpkins-Camp (2-14):
Early on (i.e., some years ago) in reviewing promotional and non-promotional material about the Perris Valley Line AND the Orange Empire Railway Museum (OERM), the concept of both entities using the downtown Perris stop was brought forward. As an example, note the paragraph just above all the small pictures OF THE SECOND GROUP of pictures at the following webpage:
http://www.oerm.org/perris-depot
As far as extending catenary to the Metrolink stop from the OREM track’s present end, the impression I have gotten is yes it would be extended. Grants and fundraising have been mentioned in literature. Metrolink riders being able to transfer to the OERM transportation for a mile or so ride to the museum site seems to have been the intent of the cultural grant(s), and would increase reverse-direction ridership, i.e., opposite to work commuter patterns.
As far as switches between the Metrolink mainline and the OERM track, I would venture to say everything will be replaced and new, so the wye switch’s days are likely numbered. That wye switch’s speed likely would not match the Metrolink curve and speed requirements anyway, thus, such a wye switch likely would not be used. I envision, unofficially, somewhere the insertion of right handed crossover switches, likely with a space between switches to allow for a buffer zone between the Metrolink and OERM tracks. Also, I don’t envision any rarely used power switches being installed, as they would be, not only expensive, but the OERM signals for them a chronic nuisance for the Metrolink DS. Of course, Metrolink on its San Bernardino line in the Bassett area has such a crossover arrangement with Union Pacific (Sunset Route), more like a universal crossovers situation, and BOTH dispatchers have to be in sync for the crossovers to be used and signals lined.
That above mentioned future crossover should be springing up soon, at lease for the Metrolink side of the crossover.
Anyway, John, that is my opinion and two cents worth and it is hoped such adequately addresses your inquiries.
K.P.:
In your reply to mvs, you mentioned that the second platform track was going to serve OERM. I had noticed it in earlier posts, found it peculiar and interesting, but never connected with what was for the museum. In essence, it will a railcar stop. It think it is a great maximizing of community resources.
So, then, does that mean that the catenary will be extended to the stop? That would seem logical (and have lower operating costs than an diesel powered train shuttling back and forth).
And, in your photos of the 5th Street crossing, there is what sort of looks like an equalateral turnout-- do you think the reconnection to OERM will be the same type or something less unique?
Finally, now that residents are seeing much progess and new investment along the line, is there an air of excitment or greater interest?
You always have the latest info on interesting projects-- thanks!!
John
mvs (2-8):
Yes, that curving “S” type track will eventually go straight along the platform. Interestingly, a pathway is already dug down for it as per the photo you replied to.
That the platform with the yellow steel strips will be for Metrolink, note a previously shown February 13, 2013 southward view of the stub-end PLATFORM for the Orange Empire Railway Museum (OERM) track, with those yellow strips. On the middle far left is the yellow strip for the Metrolink track.
Two August 22, 2014 photos of the yellow edged platform for Metrolink: The ground at that time was not cleared.
But, the January 31, 2015 photo you inquired about had a strip cleared. Thus, that curving track will eventually go straight, and the yellow stripped platform will be where Metrolink patrons get on or off in downtown Perris.
At this point in time, I have a gut feeling there will be intermediate signals on each side of a future crossover to the OERM track in the southern portion of downtown, and a north-side intermedia set north of the station stop. But, we will have to wait and see on that.
K.P.,
Thank you for this latest series of updates! I think you already answered my question, but the "curve" from your picture below is temporary, correct?
That platform has been there for a while, as it's been on Google Maps for a while.
K. P. HarrierUpdate as of Saturday, January 31, 2015 Big Progress on the PVL Part “D” (of A-G, Overall A-N) In the downtown Perris area, at San Jacinto Ave., looking north (inbound), a new track alignment was in place, a track over from the present old line, which was taken up through the grade crossing: (...snip...) Looking south (outbound): (...snip...) On the upper right is the bus patron platform, which apparently will double as the train rider’s platform too.
Big Progress on the PVL
Part “D” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
In the downtown Perris area, at San Jacinto Ave., looking north (inbound), a new track alignment was in place, a track over from the present old line, which was taken up through the grade crossing:
(...snip...)
Looking south (outbound):
On the upper right is the bus patron platform, which apparently will double as the train rider’s platform too.
Update as of Saturday, January 31, 2015
Part “N” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
We now travel to the Marlborough Ave. grade crossing about a mile or so from where the Perris Valley Line will junction into the BNSF in Highgrove. A cement platform seems to be being cement-laid.
Above, the signal on the left will protect the Riverside Industrial Lead switch. Way in the background right is the new signal by Citrus Ave.
K.P. now headed back to base with much more digital imagines in the camera than he had expected during the 12-hour trip to San Diego.
By comparison, the Metrolink process on this existing old branch line was to take up the old rails and ties, lay concrete ties, put ballast down, and then afterwards lay rails onto those ties.
Both BNSF and UP when they lay a NEW, never before present second or third track, rail is laid in conjunction with laying ties, i.e., together, as BNSF did in Cajon Pass in 2008.
The above two Cajon Pass pictures is of the original California Southern route between San Diego and Barstow. Another portion of said route passes through the Box Springs and Perris (the museum route) areas.
The BNSF and UP then afterwards ballast the rails and ties, as on this Cajon Pass Mains 1 and 2 route view.
Of course, that Cajon Pass track laying was on an alignment that previously had NO track on it, whereas the route through the Box Springs area already had a track, and was active with trains passing over it, and was an upgrade of the route.
This will end the series.
Part “M” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
We now leave and head northbound on the I-215 Freeway, and expect what we saw by Watkins Drive earlier to be unchanged. But, a track machine was now parked west of where we had previously been that morning.
There is quite an elevation difference by the track machine and the valley below.
We re-park a few hundred feet away, and photograph the curve, now WITH rails on the ties!
The San Jac freight, or whatever it is called now, with BNSF power, likely traveled over this new track a day or two later.
Continued in Part N
Part “L” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
Northwestward views:
Strangely, one of the ties is numbered “0” (zero).
Continued in Part M
Part “K” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
As seen in the third photo in Park J, there is a second group of ties just feet away, of the actually future switch ties laid out.
Crates and switch parts are on site too.
Continued in Part L
Part “J” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
We go to north of downtown, by the new CP about a quarter of a mile north of Nuevo Ave., were switch parts and ties are now on site.
As with Union Pacific’s Sunset Route two-tracking new switches, the Perris Valley Line’s turnout concrete ties are numbered.
Continued in Part K
Part “I” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
In the background are the I-215 Freeway and the construction area where the South Perris stop will be. The crane is by those wash bridges to be replaced.
That new mast signals and future crossing gates:
So, a commuter train leaving the South Perris station stop inbound will pass two signals in quick succession, maybe a half mile apart.
Looking northwest from Ellis Ave., the newly erected crossing gate mechanisms for G Street are seen, as well as for Perris Blvd. way in the background.
Continued in Part J
Part “H” (of H-N, Overall A-N)
New crossing gates at Seventh Street:
A closer view of that severed track to OERM.
In the Perris area K.P. assignment was scheduled for 9:00 A.M., which he hit right to the minute. Next stop was San Diego. After a few hours there, he was back on the road to the Perris area again.
Back in Perris, the first grade crossing (Ellis Ave.) northwest out of the South Perris stop was approached. Another new signal had been erected, maybe a half a mile from the one at the stop itself..
Continued in Part I
Part “G” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
From Seventh Street in Perris, looking back north: How all this track will be realigned should make for some interesting before and after photos:
Curving outbound to South Perris:
---------
Continued in Parts H-N to be posted by 9:00 A.M. Pacific Time, Saturday, February 7, 2015.
Part “F” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Now at the 5th Street grade crossing to the south, looking north: The Perris Depot is on the upper right, while the bus terminal / future Metrolink stop is on the upper left.
Looking south from 5th Street.
Just above, the track on the background right goes to the Orange Empire Railway Museum (OERM).
By that grade crossing a bunch of old ties are now stacked up.
Continued in Part G
Part “E” (of A-G, Overall A-N)
Another RTA bus passes (having just come from that platform area).
The future crossing gates’ burial bases are in place, and new curbing is in too.
The same with looking north (inbound).
Continued in Part F
Continued in Part E
Across from Watkins Drive, on the north side of the ‘dirt’ grade crossing, the two different named roads (that are now one) have had pavement since a year ago as per the agreement that will eventually close this grade crossing.
This forum contributor decided to tryout the paved road, but did NOT like driving it, even for a short distance. If you look at the above photo, on each side of the roadway there is the same curbing material as the two-lane wide roadway, and trying to turn around on a curving road, well, one has to drive quite a ways to find a halfway safe turnaround spot. The road’s narrowness makes for a multi-point turnaround all the while one keeps their fingers crossed that another car won’t show up! If you visit this area, don’t plan on taking photos from the north side of the tracks … because of the black curbing there is NO place to park except in the traffic lanes!
The low point of that roadway is by the grade crossing, and runoff gullies from the recent rains is present.
Those big pipes in the first photo of Part A may or may not be to deal with that drainage problem.
Looking inbound, the track renewal with concrete ties (without new rails yet) had reached upwardly to a few hundred feet from the dirt grade crossing where the camera was at.
Nearing the top of the grade out of Riverside, in the mountainous Box Springs area, clear evidence of advancement is seen on a short section parallel to the I-215 Freeway next to Watkins Drive.
The construction was more dramatic than had been previously thought this date, as in this Box Springs area workers were working on a Saturday!
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