I enjoyed the article, but I really think that the magazine failed in one aspect. A better diagram than the cutaway shown on page 43 was needed to illustrate just where the many areas were that the article REPEATEDLY referred to.
Oh sure, there are an abundance of online sources available, yada yada. But the point is we pay for the magazine because we want information at our fingertips. And a diagram showing where the described areas fit into the greater whole is not, IMO, an unreasonable expectation.
I ended up squinting like a fool trying to read the preposterously small text in the supplied illustration's legend. And I just didn't happen to have a magnifying glass with me on the plane that I read the magazine on.
Convicted One:
I have interest in the large Stations such as GCT, and I'm about to go purchchase the issue....Is the article overall, worth purchasing said issue....?
Item: I've been a subscriber of Trains for decades and read it before that from newstand issues, however I don't seem to get all of ea. issue read anymore as I received them ea. month, so now will purchase selected ones.
Quentin
I was glad to see the article, and I wished my wife were still living so she could have read it. She lived in New York City for eleven years (1951-62) and would, from time to time, go up to Bronxville to visit her father and her stepmother, so she was quite familiar with at least part of the station. She did not comment much on the changes made since her time when we were there in 2007 (going up to Wassaic to visit her cousin, who lived in Salisbury, Connecticut).
Johnny
Modelcar ..Is the article overall, worth purchasing said issue....?
..Is the article overall, worth purchasing said issue....?
The magazine as a whole seems to be gravitating towards "fluff" And i was done with the entire issue in a couple hours. Not the same magazine it once was.
That said, if you have a special interest in big train stations, I would say this issue is a "must have", just because there is only one Grand Central Terminal. But when they start referencing the long distance level versus the suburban level, and tie those into a description of "where so-and so used to be", it leaves you wondering how all the pieces tie into the whole. A more indepth analysis of how (and where) the practice of "selling airspace" was used to fund their hubris would have been a nice addition as well.
In all, the GCT article, and Fraily's column were plus.
Phillips' column and the superficial coverage of the train convention were disappointments. And normally I like Phillips contribution most of all.
Convicted One Modelcar ..Is the article overall, worth purchasing said issue....? The magazine as a whole seems to be gravitating towards "fluff" And i was done with the entire issue in a couple hours. Not the same magazine it once was. That said, if you have a special interest in big train stations, I would say this issue is a "must have", just because there is only one Grand Central Terminal. But when they start referencing the long distance level versus the suburban level, and tie those into a description of "where so-and so used to be", it leaves you wondering how all the pieces tie into the whole. A more indepth analysis of how (and where) the practice of "selling airspace" was used to fund their hubris would have been a nice addition as well. In all, the GCT article, and Fraily's column were plus. Phillips' column and the superficial coverage of the train convention were disappointments. And normally I like Phillips contribution most of all.
Thanks for your thoughts on my question....Guess I will check this one out.
My only regret is that it is impossible to write a similar article abut Pennsylvania Station.
There's an alternate NYC RR subject to Albany-Selkirk-Utica for the map-of-the-month in the Grand Central Terminal TRAINS issue. Anyone need more than one guess?
All those references to where something is or was, upper level or lower, waiting rooms, loop track, commercial places.....
I've been there dozens of times; most of the references came thru; but if you haven't been there....
An aside about air rights: in the 80's that 70 (or so) story building, the Pan American Building, built in GCT's back yard atop the throats to GCT sold (don't know the buyer) for $70M.
My brother worked in a building of late '40's construction, 12 stories and way less than a football field of ground space, that sold at the same time for $1B.
It was promptly destroyed. Well, people and businesses were allowed to move out.
Did I mention another building was then built there; there, as my brother said, that if the wind was adequate you could "spit in the Emporer's moat" from his office window in Tokyo.
"Air rights." Right?
one more ride way out there, 'Pioneers
Yes, the Grand Central Station, WHOOPS, Grand Central TERMINAL issue is worth picking up, I've enjoyed mine tremendously, and when I'm done with it I'm sendind it to Mom who's an old New York City girl and who knows GCT quite well.
If you're ever in New York make it a point to visit GCT, it's a sight to see and you won't be sorry you took the time, I certainly wasn't.
Anyone out there remember the radio show?
"Grand Central Station, crossroads of a million private lives..."
"As a bullet seeks its target, shining rails in every part of our great country are aimed at Grand Central Station, heart of the nation's greatest city. Drawn by the magnetic force of the fantastic metropolis, day and night great trains rush toward the Hudson River, sweep down its eastern bank for 140 miles, flash briefly by the long red row of tenement houses south of 125th Street, dive with a roar into the two-and-one-half-mile tunnel which burrows beneath the glitter and swank of Park Avenue, and then ... (sound effect of a train pulling into the station) ... Grand Central Station! Crossroads of a million private lives! Gigantic stage on which are played a thousand dramas daily!"
--Opening from the radio program.
Back in about 1973-1975 period I commuted on the Harlem line from Tuckahoe (one station stop north of Bronxville) to GCT daily to get to my job at 40th Street and 5th Avenue in Manhattan. You truly need to be there to appreciate how it seems that the whole of humanity is there with you at rush hour. I recall many things about GCT including the smells of the FL9 units idling on the outbound tracks (their batteries had long since died and they needed to run on diesel/electric at that time), the Oyster Bar, the little flower stands for late spouses to make amends to their loved ones, the cocktail carts for those who had a hard day (no bar cars on my line), and the "special" homeless lady who was on my inbound platform every morning with a rolled up newspaper and smacked many well heeled commuters with the newspaper in the morning rush period (I was fortunate that I was able to dodge her every time and was not on the receiving end of her paper). It's been many years since I've been there and it sure sounds like GCT is a much nicer place than back then but it sure was impressive even then. I also have traveled in/our of Penn Station on Amtrak while living in Maryland and now in/out of Chicago Union Statioin on Metra and Amtrak. I've also visited Los Angeles, Denver and many other stations but GCT is the best of the best and worth a visit the next time you're in NYC.
efftenxrfe An aside about air rights: in the 80's that 70 (or so) story building, the Pan American Building, built in GCT's back yard atop the throats to GCT sold (don't know the buyer) for $70M.
One of the things I found confusing about the article's mention of "air rights" is the overly concise description of how the second tiering of Park Avenue facilitated the sale of "air rights" making me wonder if they managed to sell more "air rights" than were just over the top of the terminal building proper. (IE how far down Park Avenue did the second tier roadway facilitate the sale of air rights?)
Convicted One efftenxrfe An aside about air rights: in the 80's that 70 (or so) story building, the Pan American Building, built in GCT's back yard atop the throats to GCT sold (don't know the buyer) for $70M. One of the things I found confusing about the article's mention of "air rights" is the overly concise description of how the second tiering of Park Avenue facilitated the sale of "air rights" making me wonder if they managed to sell more "air rights" than were just over the top of the terminal building proper. (IE how far down Park Avenue did the second tier roadway facilitate the sale of air rights?)
eolafanI recall many things about GCT including the smells of the FL9 units idling on the outbound tracks (their batteries had long since died and they needed to run on diesel/electric at that time)
It wasn't so much the batteries as the crazy control system for running off the third rail. One hiccup and the locomotive wouldn't take power. There also was the issue of the cute little motor driven air compressor that was supposed to keep the main reservoir charged. Too often, it couldn't keep up with leaks and the brakes would come on if you tried to run on electric.
I can recall one time in roughly the same era where we almost cleared the end of the platform on electric before the engineer fired up the diesel engine and away we went in a cloud of smoke.
Conrail actually rebuilt several FL9s in kind at Selkirk in the late 70s, including a new coat of blue and yellow paint and Conrail logos. They ran pretty well for a while...until Harmon got a hold of them.
Here's one: http://thecrhs.org/Images/CR-5015-Poughkeepsie-NY-1978
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
eolafan ]IIRC the "air rights" buildings were mostly built over the tracks so the trains now go underneath the buildings along Park Ave.
]IIRC the "air rights" buildings were mostly built over the tracks so the trains now go underneath the buildings along Park Ave.
Thanks for the reply. Any idea how many blocks worth we are talking about?
Sorry to keep beating this one, but a meaningful map (in the magazine) would have TOTALLY solved my curiousity.
Well done John WR! I just KNEW you'd know about the radio show! I'm too young to remember it, but I've sure heard about it.
By the way, ever hear of "The Witch's Tales"?
Yes, the article is fluffy, nothing you couldn't get from the New York Times or from the MNRR website in fact. There have been many books on GCT over the years, three are contemporary to our times, a fourth is due out soon. The MTA Musuem Shop at GCT has them all.
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Convicted One Any idea how many blocks worth we are talking about?
It's not to scale, but it gives an idea
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/brentspud/Model%20Railroading/1-line-a.jpg
That's the upper level of GCT; the throat has pinched down to ten tracks north of 53rd St, and Park Ave is 140 ft wide between the property lines, so maybe they're not under any bldgs north of 53rd St.
I'm sorry, Firelock. "The Witches' Tales" is a mystery to me.
John
timz Convicted One Any idea how many blocks worth we are talking about? It's not to scale, but it gives an idea http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/brentspud/Model%20Railroading/1-line-a.jpg That's the upper level of GCT; the throat has pinched down to ten tracks north of 53rd St, and Park Ave is 140 ft wide between the property lines, so maybe they're not under any bldgs north of 53rd St.
So you're saying that all these buildings over the tracks pay air rights? Basically everything from Citibank, south to GCT.
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.7549971&lon=-73.9755727&z=17&l=0&m=w
John WR I'm sorry, Firelock. "The Witches' Tales" is a mystery to me. John
Yeah, i'm not surprised. I think "Witch's Tales" was strictly a local New York City radio show, I can't find anything about it in any histories of old-time radio I've read, but everyone I know who grew up in NYC or its enviorns in the 30's and 40's remembers it. They told me they loved it when they were kids, getting the hell scared out of them listening to the radio in a darkened room. If Rod Serling was a New York City kid it wouldn't surprise me to find out "The Twilight Zone" was inspired by "The Witch's Tales."
But I do remember:
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows. Ha ha ha ha ha."
henry6Yes, the article is fluffy
But Henry, I think the terminal itself is fluffy. The polished stone walls, the elaborate light fixtures, the ceiling painted to look the the night sky are all crafted to make you think you're in some kind of fancy palace instead of just running to catch a train. And, it seems, that kind of fluff is what many of us want. I think the article depicts GCT as it really is. And if that has not much to do with trains well neither does the public spaces at GCT.
From GCT diagrams /maps/charts to air rights to being "ON THE AIR" old radio, where's this going?
But, "There are 8 million stories in the Naked City, and this has been but one of them."
That creaking shuddering hinge on the door to the Inner Sanctum is opening to let me and my "Faithful....first nation's First American....companion," continue on our quest.
Hi Yo SIIILver, AWAY!
one more ride way out there (you) sons....pioneers
No..GCT is real. Brass and marble and people and steel. You can see it and and feel it and it looks and feels like it is. Fluff is marshmallows and feathers hidden behind mirrors and glass puffed with air and little substance. There is a lot of substance to GCT.
The New Haven RR Historical Society has an excellent book on the FL-9's, "Diesel to Park Avenue." which discusses the FL-9's electric mode problems. Eventually, with rebuilding, some did get fixed and performed well. One of the problems was that the original third-rail shoes were double sprung and could run on LIRR overhead contract third rail into Penn Station, and did so on occasion when EP-5's were not available. But this required correct maintenance of the Metro North underruning third rail, and particularly the ramps at Woddlawn and at all switches. So the shoes got nocked off and there was no longer any third rail power! The Metro North rebuilt FL-9's had a more tolerant shoe but could not run into Penn. Some were rebuilt for the LIRR and did not run on MetroNorth.
henry6No..GCT is real. Brass and marble and people and steel.
I think we've got to agree to disagree here, Henry. Until you go through the doors to the tracks you could believe there is no steel at all. But there is plenty of brass and marble decoration.
I think Penn Station before they tore it down was a real railroad station with its glassed archway and concrete and a concourse that overlooked the tracks. It was what a railroad station should look like.
Grand Central Terminal is an icon that deserves the publicity it is getting on its 100th birthday. It is a worthy monument to the great wealth of the Vanderbilt railroads. But I still think it is iconic fluff.
NYP only had that open mezzanine when it was built...it was similarly closed in but not as commercialized as GCT was. They were equal. I spent many a time in the Penn sta of the 40's and 50's and it was an even match with GCT.
As I say, Henry, I think we just have to agree to disagree here.
However, I do believe that had Alfred Perlman been in charge of Penn Central from the beginning it would still be operating.
Operations and railroaders were not in charge...those representing stockholders and other investors were...they didn't care about trains and railroading they cared about money.
I enjoyed the article about the GCT
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
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