Take a listen to T. Boone Pickens comments:
http://www.businessinsider.com/t-boone-pickens-tells-us-his-plan-to-rebuild-the-economy-2012-8
http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/
Can locomotives run as efficiently on natural gas as they can on diesel oil?
Could the railroads by having their own facilities easily and quickly convert,
and have a public relations victory?
jclass Can locomotives run as efficiently on natural gas as they can on diesel oil?
A pure diesel cannot run on Natural Gas, you either have to use a shot of regular diesel injected into a precumbustion chamber which then ignites the Natural Gas, or You have to inject the Natural Gas under High-pressure immediately after TDC. In any case a gallon of Natural Gas has only a fraction of the Energy of a gallon of Diesel fuel. When BN experimented with using Refridgerated Liquid Methane (a purer form of Natural Gas) in the mid-80's, they had to used a large tankcar between two locomotives to make the same distance as the locomotives could cover with their normal fuel tanks filled with diesel fuel. They did carry a bit more than normal reserve however as they only had one fueling station. The UP started testing a similar setup right after BN, but stopped before starting field testing when the price of diesel fuel dropped.
Could the railroads by having their own facilities easily and quickly convert, and have a public relations victory?
Not very easily, they would need to establish a lot of infrastructure, and invest a lot of money.
beaulieu jclass Can locomotives run as efficiently on natural gas as they can on diesel oil? A pure diesel cannot run on Natural Gas, you either have to use a shot of regular diesel injected into a precumbustion chamber which then ignites the Natural Gas, or You have to inject the Natural Gas under High-pressure immediately after TDC. In any case a gallon of Natural Gas has only a fraction of the Energy of a gallon of Diesel fuel. When BN experimented with using Refridgerated Liquid Methane (a purer form of Natural Gas) in the mid-80's, they had to used a large tankcar between two locomotives to make the same distance as the locomotives could cover with their normal fuel tanks filled with diesel fuel. They did carry a bit more than normal reserve however as they only had one fueling station. The UP started testing a similar setup right after BN, but stopped before starting field testing when the price of diesel fuel dropped. Could the railroads by having their own facilities easily and quickly convert, and have a public relations victory? Not very easily, they would need to establish a lot of infrastructure, and invest a lot of money. Then, are engines on semi-tractors refitted or re-engined, and then refilled more frequently to offset the lower energy per unit of fuel?
Then, are engines on semi-tractors refitted or re-engined, and then refilled more frequently to offset the lower energy per unit of fuel?
The infrastructure to refuel LNG-burning trucks only has to supply a few hundred gallons per refill.
The locomotive fueling station has to be able to load ten thousand or more gallons per refill.
Comparing the two is like comparing a shot glass to a bucket.
The, "Buy American," line is a good way to keep the politicians and activists happy - but not necessarily the best from a business standpoint.
One thing about a serious accident involving spilled locomotive fuel. Diesel may spill and make a mess, but it takes some serious urging to ignite it. LNG will ignite quite readily - and then create a BLEVE when the main tank gets warm enough. I live a few miles away from the scene of a LNG fire that created several small Boiling Liquid Explosive Vapor Explosions. Fortunately, the Fire Department kept the bigger tanks and the railway cars from overheating - but we still had dawn at midnight and a ghastly mess to clean up later. (No fatalities or serious injuries, thanks be.)
Chuck
This dead horse gets beaten about once a month here it seems.
Thanks, Beaulieu and Chuck. Wasn't aware of the differences and their impacts.
tdmidget This dead horse gets beaten about once a month here it seems.
Not dead, there is still experimenting going on. CN is modifying two SD40-2s to run on reportedly LNG, and has bought one of the UP's LNG fuel tenders. The fact that they chose two elderly locomotives suggests a less than total commitment to the idea.
burlington northern had a engine or two converted to nat gas years ago. we need to get away from buying 500,000,000,000 to 1,000,000,000,000 dollars of oil from saudia arabia every year who supports terriorists. and all the jobs here if we used our own resources. and last there is the security factor.
beaulieu tdmidget This dead horse gets beaten about once a month here it seems. Not dead, there is still experimenting going on. CN is modifying two SD40-2s to run on reportedly LNG, and has bought one of the UP's LNG fuel tenders. The fact that they chose two elderly locomotives suggests a less than total commitment to the idea.
And the fact that they bought the tender from UP tells us that the idea is already a failure and this is an exercise in "greenness" and probably comes with big ol' gov't $.
Forget T Boone Pickens. Listen to the engineers at Caterpillar. Watch the engineers adapt a CAt engine to LNG & railroad use. Wait about 5 years to see what new product comes from Progress Rail/Cat. Those older locos are part of the installed fleet that can be rebuilt with new CAT Power.
Consider that T. Boone Pickens, who is better known as a corporate raider, has a rather large interest in natural gas holdings. This whole thing looks like a way of establishing an energy policy that will further enlarge his already huge fortune.
tdmidget beaulieu tdmidget This dead horse gets beaten about once a month here it seems. Not dead, there is still experimenting going on. CN is modifying two SD40-2s to run on reportedly LNG, and has bought one of the UP's LNG fuel tenders. The fact that they chose two elderly locomotives suggests a less than total commitment to the idea. And the fact that they bought the tender from UP tells us that the idea is already a failure and this is an exercise in "greenness" and probably comes with big ol' gov't $.
Aren't they doing this on the Canadian side of their operations? I.E it won't be U.S taxpayers money..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Wdlgln005 Forget T Boone Pickens. Listen to the engineers at Caterpillar. Watch the engineers adapt a CAt engine to LNG & railroad use. Wait about 5 years to see what new product comes from Progress Rail/Cat. Those older locos are part of the installed fleet that can be rebuilt with new CAT Power.
CAT doesn't need to adapt anything. They have an entire line of Natural Gas fired engines that are the top of the line in horsepower and emissions used for generating electricity and natural gas compression. LNG or CNG doesn't matter as the end fuel is the same. CNG just pulls from a volume bottle like an air compressor and LNG pulls the vapors off the top of a liquid filled vessel like a propane grill does. I have operated many types of gas engines and would run a CAT any day over any other make. Diesel engines can be converted to natural gas by changing the heads to one with a spark plug port and changing the fuel system.
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
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