Well it's like this.
This is a railroad site. Scroll up. See those big red and white letters? They spell TRAINS. The occasional tangent isn't bad, but it is getting old when discussions start focusing solely on other subjects - whether it be planes, trucks, or roads. There's a time and a place for everything, but you shouldn't hold the whole party here.
And speaking as a RRer, I don't want admiration. I'm not a hero. I'm not a savior. Forget what you know. But when it comes to discussing railroad operations, I see many dismiss railroader's thoughts and concerns (for example, any thread on running trains remotely). Many non RRers think this is a giant HO scale layout at best, an isolated subway at worst. We have real concerns - and they are not always just to serve our own interest$, believe it or not.
Now carry on my wayward sons.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Speaking as a humble and not inane non-railroader, I's like to state for the record that both Ed Blysard's Greyhounds comments were spot on correct and to the point.
edbenton This is coming from Someone that was in a Fatal Accident as an OTR Driver I can tell you this it took the State Police over 7 Hours to Clear the Accident site in mine and they took over 120 Photos in the frreaking thing. They measured EVERYTHING that could be measured on my truck the other guys Pickup and about everything ELSE they could. Hell they even had 2 Officers sitting with me At the HOSPITAL the entire time I was there and one was outside the freaking room when I was taking the POST ACCIDENT WIZ QUIZ for the freaking thing. Accident happened at roughly 1640 hours they finally Cleared the site at 0100 the NEXT DAY and let traffic flow by after that.
This is coming from Someone that was in a Fatal Accident as an OTR Driver I can tell you this it took the State Police over 7 Hours to Clear the Accident site in mine and they took over 120 Photos in the frreaking thing. They measured EVERYTHING that could be measured on my truck the other guys Pickup and about everything ELSE they could. Hell they even had 2 Officers sitting with me At the HOSPITAL the entire time I was there and one was outside the freaking room when I was taking the POST ACCIDENT WIZ QUIZ for the freaking thing. Accident happened at roughly 1640 hours they finally Cleared the site at 0100 the NEXT DAY and let traffic flow by after that.
Trucks R Us? I thought this was Trains.com?
zugmann Well it's like this. This is a railroad site. Scroll up. See those big red and white letters? They spell TRAINS. The occasional tangent isn't bad, but it is getting old when discussions start focusing solely on other subjects - whether it be planes, trucks, or roads. There's a time and a place for everything, but you shouldn't hold the whole party here. Now carry on my wayward sons.
Your highness, this is not a site for railroaders exclusively. If you want one of those, go to: http://www.ble-t.org . Nor is it a railroad site. If you want that, go to railway Age, the trade publication: http://www.railwayage.com/. This is a forum run by Trains Magazine a publication of Kalmbach, not affiliated or owned by any railroad or group of employees. It is a site about railroads, read by folks who have an interest in railroads, positive or negative. So I would suggest you railroaders get used to the idea that you are not entitled to some special deference.
And who appointed RRKen moderator? His remark about Ed Benton's truck posts is out of line. If you don't like reading Ed, ignore him, just as any other thread or comment you have no interest in.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Did you even read my post, sir?
I said this site is about TRAINS. Not railroaders. Let me repeat that: this site is about TRAINS. Not railroaders. One more time: this site is about TRAINS. Not railroaders. Nor did I ever imply that it was.
My beef was about people who want to turn this place into a discussion about trucks, planes or roads. I swear I typed this out already. Maybe that was a dream?
Special deference? What are you talking about? I never asked for that in my post. All I said is that people in the industry get a better view of certain aspects that should not be dismissed simply because we be railroaders concerned only with our paychecks.
Yes, we can ignore certain topics. But when several of the topics are devoted to (or go off on a tangenet about) those NON-TRAIN topics, it may be easeir to just ignore the whole site. And the site will suffer because of it, IN MY OPINION.
schlimm And who appointed RRKen moderator? His remark about Ed Benton's truck posts is out of line. If you don't like reading Ed, ignore him, just as any other thread or comment you have no interest in.
No one. If I wanted to read about truckers blather, I would join said site of tall tales. Sorry old sock!
zugmannSpecial deference? What are you talking about? I never asked for that in my post. All I said is that people in the industry get a better view of certain aspects that should not be dismissed simply because we be railroaders.
Mind numbing marathon threads berift of thought and saturated with speculation.
An observation:
One has to understand the participation in this forum. It is easy to see the forum universe as the members we recognize here. But there are only 5-10 of this general forum on line at any time at most. The modelers make up the vast majority of members on line. I don’t know how many of them read this forum, but they don’t post here. What is not so obvious is the vast silent majority of unregistered readers of the forum. If the view count is a reliable indicator, I would say that the unregistered lurkers outnumber the members ten to one. And they never tell us what they think. They just read what we say.
Your words, my emphasis added for clarity. Perhaps it was your twin brother?
Levity aside, your opinion is no more valuable, relevant, insightful, superior, etc. b/c you are a railroader than that of someone who is not. Nor is it necessarily any less valuable, etc. Opinions are just that, to be thrown out there for not just us but others beyond the 10-15 of us to read, evaluate and move on. If the professionals want their own forum on which you don't have to deal with the rest of us, petition Trains for a special group. And I hope you don't see this comment as rude, because it was not.
Yes, it is a railroad site. Trains, railroads, pretty much the same stuff. Even Kalmbach says this is THE magazine of railroading.
But I did not say it is a railroader's site, now, did I Mr. Schlimm? I do not know why you are chasing unicorns on here.
...next?
No, and you know I never said you did. If you don't, you need glasses!! [JK] What i have noted is that some of the pros act as though they are a special category who are entitled to special treatment.
schlimm Levity aside, your opinion is no more valuable, relevant, insightful, superior, etc. b/c you are a railroader than that of someone who is not. Nor is it necessarily any less valuable, etc. Opinions are just that, to be thrown out there for not just us but others beyond the 10-15 of us to read, evaluate and move on. If the professionals want their own forum on which you don't have to deal with the rest of us, petition Trains for a special group. And I hope you don't see this comment as rude, because it was not.
I don't want my own forum, nor did I ever say I did. I am the first to admit that I am no more special than anyone else. But I don't want my opinion completely dismissed just because I happen to be a RRer.
Fair enough?
schlimm No, and you know I never said you did. If you don't, you need glasses!! [JK] What i have noted is that some of the pros act as though they are a special category who are entitled to special treatment.
No, but sorry to inform you that those who work in the industry, have more of a familiarity to it than most outsiders. I am not a special catagory, nor do I need special treatment. But give us our due, and not treat us as pariahs as is usually the norm.
Many of us non-railroaders feel we are treated in the same way as you feel - pariahs or 2nd class forum members. I guess the pariah is in the eye of the beholder, though that would probably hurt a lot.
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*Removed by Poster*
zugmann I am the first to admit that I am no more special than anyone else. But I don't want my opinion completely dismissed just because I happen to be a RRer.
I am the first to admit that I am no more special than anyone else. But I don't want my opinion completely dismissed just because I happen to be a RRer.
Opinions get dismissed here right and left here. I think I have even had a couple of mine dismissed. But I don’t see that railroaders are having their opinions dismissed disproportionately. I really don’t understand the dispute. Where are railroader's opinions being dismissed just because they are railroaders?
Bucyrus Opinions get dismissed here right and left here. I think I have even had a couple of mine dismissed. But I don’t see that railroaders are having their opinions dismissed disproportionately. I really don’t understand the dispute. Where are railroader's opinions being dismissed just because they are railroaders?
As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains.
So Murray, are you seriously trying to be funny or are you trying to get the thread locked?
Gee Murray, why would you want the thread locked?
zugmann: "As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains."
Never read one but it seems to me your beef might be with rail management types, not the non-railroaders. Technology is a two-edged sword. Nice for management to save costs, but not so nice for employees.
schlimm zugmann: "As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains." Never read one but it seems to me your beef might be with rail management types, not the non-railroaders. Technology is a two-edged sword. Nice for management to save costs, but not so nice for employees.
Right there. That was it.
You did it yourself right there - immediately brought up the cost factor. You steered the conversation right to money, and not to something like operations, or hurdles. Went right for the money, because you think that is what we have the issue with. Hell, I'm not even in ground service anymore. So even if we had crewless trains, I'd probably still have a job where I'm at.
zugmann schlimm: zugmann: "As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains." Never read one but it seems to me your beef might be with rail management types, not the non-railroaders. Technology is a two-edged sword. Nice for management to save costs, but not so nice for employees. Right there. That was it. You did it yourself right there - immediately brought up the cost factor. You steered the conversation right to money, and not to something like operations, or hurdles. Went right for the money, because you think that is what we have the issue with. Hell, I'm not even in ground service anymore. So even if we had crewless trains, I'd probably still have a job where I'm at.
schlimm: zugmann: "As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains." Never read one but it seems to me your beef might be with rail management types, not the non-railroaders. Technology is a two-edged sword. Nice for management to save costs, but not so nice for employees.
Why is it unfair to bring up the cost factor? Isn't that the point of automation?
I didn't say it was unfair. Seems like many times when a RRer takes issue with something, many automatically, as our friend Mr, Schlimm did, immediately assumed the reason is strictly money.
It may be the reason.
It may not be the reason.
But because someone is a railroader - it is assumed that it is.
I mentioned cost b/c that is probably the main impetus for management to move toward crewless trains. Sure it has an impact on operations, which was what I meant by crew, along with job losses. Not necessarily yours, but you all are affected one way or another. Sink or swim together, etc. I am not management, BTW. But I have seen how they usually tend to find ways to feather their own nests at the expense of employees under the rubric of progress.
schlimm I mentioned cost b/c that is probably the main impetus for management to move toward crewless trains. Sure it has an impact on operations, which was what I meant by crew, along with job losses. Not necessarily yours, but you all are affected one way or another. Sink or swim together, etc. .
I mentioned cost b/c that is probably the main impetus for management to move toward crewless trains. Sure it has an impact on operations, which was what I meant by crew, along with job losses. Not necessarily yours, but you all are affected one way or another. Sink or swim together, etc.
I think my point has been made, gentlemen.
What is your point? You think management is considering driverless trains for fun? You want to know why things happen? Follow the money.
schlimm What is your point? You think management is considering driverless trains for fun? You want to know why things happen? Follow the money.
No!!! really????!!!
Sheesh. Give me some credit Schlimm. And no, I'm not getting into this. I brought up the crewless thread as an example of what I was talking about with the RRer vs non-RRer thing.
zugmann Bucyrus: Opinions get dismissed here right and left here. I think I have even had a couple of mine dismissed. But I don’t see that railroaders are having their opinions dismissed disproportionately. I really don’t understand the dispute. Where are railroader's opinions being dismissed just because they are railroaders? As I already stated - just read any thread about crewless trains.
Bucyrus: Opinions get dismissed here right and left here. I think I have even had a couple of mine dismissed. But I don’t see that railroaders are having their opinions dismissed disproportionately. I really don’t understand the dispute. Where are railroader's opinions being dismissed just because they are railroaders?
Yes I have read all of those threads about automating trains. Some wonder when it will happen. Some don’t want it to happen. Some say it can’t happen. Interestingly, I have not seen any posts by railroad executives who do want it to happen. One has to wonder why it is happening here and there, and if that portends a universal transition. It is not a new idea. Automation was not far fetched even in 1900.
But in 1900, it would have required so many electromagnetic switches, batteries, levers, and buttons. I would speculate that PTC represents the biggest ever laying of the groundwork for automation. PTC is ultimately train-operating automation. It is just not recognized as such yet because only the beginning is apprarent.
No, not a special category, but some simple common respect would be nice...offer that, and it will be returned in spades.
Non railroaders ask a question about track work, and the mudchicken, who was the chief engineer mow for Santa Fe here, answers the question, with all, if not more information than requested, and the non-railroader immediately pops off with an insult or informs the guy he doesn't know what he's talking about because the answer doesn't jibe with what they wanted to hear, or how they imagined it would be, or my favorite, they read in Model Railroader that....
As Zugman points out, why bother anymore.
23 17 46 11
Look.
If it is all the same to you I much prefer the professionals stay on this board and not get driven off by those who seem to have a 'holier-than-thou', know-it-all attitudes...
Speculation is fine..in its place.
There has yet to be any final report on this and yet the knowing subjects are already pontificating on it...
Please back away from the computer and relax with some decaf....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
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