Two trains collided head-on on the UP near Goodwell, OK. One reported fatality. A brush fire started by the collision has caused some evacuations, and smoke from the fire has closed the Guymon Airport.
Collision
I find the last paragraph of this Associated Press article to be more than a little disconcerting:
"GOODWELL, Okla. – Authorities say two trains have collided in the Oklahoma Panhandle, sparking a diesel fire.
Texas County Emergency Management Director Harold Tyson says he didn't know if anyone had been injured in the Sunday morning accident, which forced the closure of U.S. Highway 54 about a mile west of Goodwell.
Tyson says officials received emergency calls a little after 10 a.m. that the trains had crashed. At least one train was carrying chemicals, but Tyson says the fire hadn't burned close to them.
He says no other vehicles were involved in the accident.
Tyson hasn't been able to determine which companies own the trains."
John Timm
Mr. Tyson must be some political bigwig's idiot brother-in-law.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
ButchKnouse Mr. Tyson must be some political bigwig's idiot brother-in-law.
Mr. Tyson definitely has his finger on the local pulse. Quite possibly he thought one of the trains might have belonged to the Rock Island (?).
Be interesting to read the final report on this one....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
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I am betting the train heading West missed the siding at Guyman OK the next town east and look out either that or the Dispatcher was Brain Dead.
We don't even know what happened, the smoke hasn't cleared, people are killed but yet let's just call someone "brain dead"?
Nice. Real nice.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Could be any number of things...that's why I like waiting to see what the final NTSB report says....
From other sources, I'm informed that this is a long, straight stretch of railroad, with trains clearly visible for goodly distances, and that it's CTC-controlled.
I have an idea (as usual) what happened, but--without better knowing the lay of the land, will not discuss it further. (When I've had ideas before, they're either correct or--in more cases--more, often contradictory, statements have come to light.)
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
A local perspective:
http://www.guymondailyherald.com/content/breaking-crews-still-battling-blaze-train-collision-scene-one-firefighter-transported-heat-r
Looks pretty bad.
Rgds IGN
I drive Highway 54 twice a year. This is flat wheat growing country and unless there are visability problems caused by smoke or dust you can see ahead for more than a mile. Also the UP has signals supporting their operations so both crews should have had ample warning. Sounds like human failure, perhaps with dispatching also at fault.
Goodwell is about eleven miles SW from Guymon and there are no curves.
I used to drive that way ALOT also when I was an OTR Driver when going between KC and LA was the Fastest way and man you are talking FLATTER THAN FLAT. Why I said the Dispatcher was Brain Dead on this was their SCREEN should have been SCREAMING COLLISION WARNING FOR MINS and they should have screamed ALL STOP NOW and stopped this. Sorry but when the Train missed the SIding he or She should have been Notified and could have STOPPED IT RIGHT THEN by Stopping BOTH TRAINS RIGHT THEN.
Ok.
Just because you drove a truck out there does not mean you know what happened, what the DS did or did not do. You do not know how far into a block the train went... you do not know if it was pure human error, or a signal malfunction, whether he contacted the trains or not, whether there was time or not.
So STOP pretending like you do. I'm sure that DS, whether any blame comes to him or not, well, I can't even imagine what he is feeling like right now.
There will be more than enough blame to go around - so let's let the FRA, the NTSB and the UP do their jobs in investigating this incident. Throwing rocks from the truck drivers seat onto railroad property doesn't cut it.
As in most incidents such as this, there will be multiple errors of commission, omission and rule violations that will have caused the chain of events that lead to the collision.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Westbound was AAMMLX , the Eastbound was ZLAAH. The accident happened on the East end of the 71 mile straightaway.
Human failure? Probably. The 100+ heat may have also been a contributing factor. Let FRA and NTSB do their work.
The turf is Cotton-Rock country. Don't doubt diningcar knows the territory. He and I roamed the Panhandle out there too often. In beteen Elkhart/Sturgis (ex ATSF/ now CVR) and Shattuck on the southern transcon, just north of the Texas border.
Discouraging. That country is a virtual milk-run with some undulation. J. A. Noble is looking down with tears from above.
beaulieu Westbound was AAMMLX , the Eastbound was ZLAAH. The accident happened on the East end of the 71 mile straightaway.
zugmann I'm sure that DS, whether any blame comes to him or not, well, I can't even imagine what he is feeling like right now.
I'm sure that DS, whether any blame comes to him or not, well, I can't even imagine what he is feeling like right now.
Dad used to get real bottled up after an accident like this. One way or another it will come down to human error. It really used to bother him before Rule "G" began to be rigorously enforced.
In the immediate aftermath, those involved will claim some sort of mechanical malfunction, but the simple rule is; no signal where there is supposed to be a signal, is a stop signal. He said he had never heard of an accident where there was a case of an incorrectly displayed electric signal relative to the situation at hand on ABS or CTC track. Back in the days of manually operated semaphores and train orders you are dealing with human error again. There are only missed or misinterpreted signals.
Single train derailments can and often are caused by mechanical failure, but two trains crashing into one another shouldn't happen. There is over a century and a half of experience to make sure it doesn't happen.
Apologies to anyone involved in an accident outside of my limited western Canadian experience caused by a proven signal malfunction.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I've seen mechanical things (like signals) fail.
Nothign is perfect. But rulebooks aren't written in blood anymore - they are written in the ink of the lawyer's pen.
narig01 A local perspective: http://www.guymondailyherald.com/content/breaking-crews-still-battling-blaze-train-collision-scene-one-firefighter-transported-heat-r Looks pretty bad. Rgds IGN
If the witness is accurate his story is perplexing:
Gary Mathews was driving down Highway 54 when the trains collided, and witnessed the accident. "Saw trains coming toward each other for about 3 miles. Heard the eastbound train blowing the horn and going 68 mph, even speed," Mathews said. "The trains hit head-on and then derailed. The westbound train was hauling cars. The westbound train laid over on it's side as I passed. I did not see any operators inside the trains. I was 50 yards from the train when it collided.
"A wall of heat hit my windshield and came through it from the explosion of fuel in the engines. The eastbound train had three engines on it. The westbound train had two. The westbound train was moving very slow before the collision."
So the eastbound crew was certainly alert, as they were using the whistle, and yet maintained a speed of roughly 68mph when they saw a westbound approaching on single track? Something is being left out.
PTC.
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All I can add is my great-grandfather spent about 10 years in Guymon, OK from about 1900-1910. He told Dad a lot about it. What he said is what others have already said, about how straight and flat the area is. Pop Pop said you could see when the train left the station the next town over. You could look down the line and see more smoke come out when the train left the station.
I read the link article to the Guymon newspaper. If the witness is entirely accurate it raises some questions I'm sure will be addressed by the investigation. The large differential in speeds right before the collision. It's also known that eyewitnesses aren't the most reliable. Isn't the time from start to final report around a year?
I feel for the families. There are still jobs that can be dangerous in the normal course of the job. My family lost someone due to an industrial accident. Next time you go by a construction site note the orange vests and water trucks to keep the dust down. Those weren't used over 50 years ago.
Track and grade profile for the Pratt Subdivision. Not gauranteed to be 100% up to date.
http://www.fogchart.com/Down/Beta/PRATT.pdf
Jeff
Oh, there's gonna be a lot more questions than answers before the embers die out on this. The surviving conductor is going to be key in explanation. If it is as flat and straight as all say, both crews are going to bear the blame somehow or another.
One thing about the 'long distance' sight lines that have been mentioned.
Yes, you can see there is a train opposing you, however, trying to estimate where that headlight is in relation to sidings and/or absolute signals is a whole nother kettle of fish. Depth perception in such circumstance is very difficult, if not nearly impossible to perceive accurately. When you are running on signal indications - a clear signal means maximum track speed. Over the past years, with the increased length and weight of trains, the carriers have been lengthening the distance between intermediate signals to allow for adequate braking distance with the large heavy trains. Spacing is now routinely 3 to 4 miles between signals.
[quote user="mudchicken"]
Ah yes muddy friend, Mr. Noble surveyed this area more than 100 years ago. I knew him in his last years as CE of the Western Lines. He and " Dolly' Shafer were two from the early days that I got to know. I worked with Dolly on the N M Division and hed was a very competent character a transitman.
Per MSNBC.COM, three crewmen are missing, conductor from one is unhurt. Here is the link with a picture: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/24/12385183-two-trains-collide-in-oklahoma-3-crewmembers-missing?lite
[quote user="diningcar"]
mudchicken Discouraging. That country is a virtual milk-run with some undulation. J. A. Noble is looking down with tears from above. Ah yes muddy friend, Mr. Noble surveyed this area more than 100 years ago. I knew him in his last years as CE of the Western Lines. He and " Dolly' Shafer were two from the early days that I got to know. I worked with Dolly on the N M Division and hed was a very competent character a transitman.
68 MPH? In that heat? Need to check that against the TT (regardless what the track chart says)
Per the MSN article http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/24/12385183-two-trains-collide-in-oklahoma-3-crewmembers-missing?lite the UP is advising that the collision happened about 2 miles east of Goodwell. The track chart shows a 9000 foot siding at Goodwell. The next passing siding to the east is about 20 miles away. Just a guess on my part, but I would think that in the circumstances the dispatcher would set the meet for Goodwell, with the eastbound intermodal being allowed to hold the main to minimize the delay on the eastward movement of that train.
The eyewitness claimed that the westbound train was slowing down, but the east bound was still near track speed (70 per the chart). Even if the eyewitness was wrong about the actual speeds, he could be correct that the westbound was moving slower. According to the chart the spacing on the block signals are about two miles. It appears entriely possible that the last signal seen by the westbound was just an approach to reduce the speed in preparation for the next signal governing the diversion into the siding. That assumes that they are past the approach signal at the time the eastbound blows past the switch and positive stop signal at the east end of the Goodwell siding. At that point, the westbound has seen no restricted signal and there is nothing that could appear on the dispatchers screen to indicate an abnormal condition.
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