Three piece truck, roller bearings, locomotive cab safety.
EB, thanks for having the patience to explain the vapor recovery problems. I can see that if it is not done right with diesels, it could cause pre-ignition and other engine life ending events. Also, that cooling equipment they tried 10 years ago could add so much weight that they would probably burn up even more fuel.
Sometimes at trade shows, maybe even one of the ones that Trains attended, a snake oil salesman will sneak in a booth among the legitimate vendors. Maybe that is who is pushing the vapor recovery idea, but I really hope it is someone with a new idea that would work.
Basically what your wanting is simalr the Charoal Cainster Vapor Recovery System we have on Cars now with Gas and E85. Well one small Problem with that since Diesel Fuel does not Evaporate near as Fast a Gas does at normal Room temps. Diesel has a Vapor Temp over over 120 Degrees and Gas is IIRC around 75. Diesel however has More Energy per Gallon than Gas but is Harder to Ignite and is next to impossible to light with a Lighter.
See how the Canister System works on your car is like this your Fuel tank when the engine is running is under a Slight Vacucum I think IIRC like 1 or 2 Inches of Vac just enough to make sure their are no leaks. That is why your SES light will pop on if you leave the cap off the System can not get to VAC. Well at first your just getting Fuel only into the System however after the engine and Emissions system have warmed up to temp on your car a Valve in the Cansiter opens and it starts metering the Vapors it has recovered into the Intake Manifold and therefore into the Cylinders where they are ignited by the Spark Plugs and out the Tail Pipes.
See that is where on a Diesel it would NEVER Work why a Gas Engine is Spark Ignition a Diesel Engine is COMPRESSION Ignition meaning the Pressure of the Air in the Cylinders compressed by the Cylinders is all that lights the Fuel that is Injected into the Cylinders. A EMD 2 stroke Motor has a Max Cylinder Compression temp of around 1000 Degrees Every time that Piston comes up your reaching 1K degrees in AIrtemp alone BEFORE the Fuel is Injected into it and then you are getting to around 1500 Degrees everytime for a few Seconds. For a 4 Stroke your Compression temps are in the area of 1100-1200 Degrees as the Piston has a Complete Air change every time. Your max Air Temp with Combustion is around 1500-1700 Degrees also. The reason why the Valves do not Burn is they are Sodium Cooled and very Well Heat Treated to withstand the Heat. The Pistons have Oil Cooling from Below on them.
So what would be the Issue for a Vapor Recovery system in Diesels one Getting the Vapors back to a Liquid State to be INJECTED into the Cylinder you can not just mix it with the air as it will cause Pre Ignition and destroy the motor. Second the Vapors you do recover are not going to want to stay Liquid and are going to want to LEAVE the Fuel faster than you can get them into the Cylinders from the Tank and if it tries to leave the Fuel in lines your going to get an air pocket in a Fuel Line leading to Scoring of Injectors Blowing C IO)(XCSSD*)UOuioa&iP[/T5IK9Aaaaaaa3whttp://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/EileenTang.shtml2wlp212[12][q`1q`1
Thanks EB, always glad to hear from someone with mechanical experience concerning the topic. It's obvious there are problems with the added system, but a technical editor like Ms. Kube could probably explain it so that less mechanically adept people like myself could catch on. Also, I would like to hear the history of why it came about in the first place (it must have sounded like a good idea to at least someone.)
MM we have had Hot Fuel recovery systems in the OTR side from the excess fuel that is not injected into the Cylinders and also in Locomotive Prime Movers there is the Same Setup on Common Rail Injection Setups. The amount of Vapor that is lost off of a Gallon of Diesel Fuel is something in the area of 1/8 teaspoon per Gallon at 110 degrees on a fuel that has a auto Ignition point of 490 Degrees roughly. The amount of cooling needed to get the temps to do what is required to capture the Vapor was looked at on the OTR side to comply with the EPA regs by CAT 10 years ago and it would have added 2K lbs of weight to the ENGINE alone and roughly another 2500 Lbs of equipment to the Trucks so 2.5 Tons to capture roughly 1 gallon in Vapors per 300 gallons of liquids and they had major issues with Maintance Problems like Leaking Coolant into the Fuel and DESTROYING THE INJECTORS and fuel leaking into the Coolant and Destroying Seals and then Coolant into oil and BLOWING THE ENGINES. So if you think adding on a SD70ACE 10 Tons of equipment that will fail and Destroy the Prime Mover to save .005 cents a mile in cost but it costs .10 cents a mile to maintain is worth it BY ALL MEANS Come up with one.
They are not worth the Effort needed to come up with them the RR's have bigger fish to fry right now with the EPA Tier 4 Mandate less than 3 Years off and EMD thinking of EGR Valves for that as the OTR side tried and DIED on them and everyone from Cummins Volvo Detroit Mack and Paccar has Gone to SCR with DPF ONLY. Have fun when the EMD's are puking their Guts out.
tdmidget Far easier to list the ones not to waste time on: 1. biodiesel. It's a stupid idea, an even worse loser than corn ethanol. I would like to see an article that would make the case either way. 2. fuel vapor recovery. Here's another loser. Diesel isn't so volatile that it should be a problem. If you can smell the product, it is volatile. Again I would like to see an article including pros and cons. 3. Patent process. This not railroad related. Anyone can find out easily 4. trackworker warning device. Someone has too much time on his hands. We already have 2 , the horn and the bell. The people who don't have time on their hands are the track workers who have been killed. Again, I would like to see an article. I too, would like detailed articles on locomotive trucks.
Far easier to list the ones not to waste time on:
1. biodiesel. It's a stupid idea, an even worse loser than corn ethanol.
I would like to see an article that would make the case either way.
2. fuel vapor recovery. Here's another loser. Diesel isn't so volatile that it should be a problem.
If you can smell the product, it is volatile. Again I would like to see an article including pros and cons.
3. Patent process. This not railroad related. Anyone can find out easily
4. trackworker warning device. Someone has too much time on his hands. We already have 2 , the horn and the bell.
The people who don't have time on their hands are the track workers who have been killed. Again, I would like to see an article.
I too, would like detailed articles on locomotive trucks.
Thank you Kathi, for listening to my opposing views to some of the above.
Hi Kathi
My choice
I.
# 3 ; 7 ( last point ; I've wondered , too ! one thing's for sure : first of all and before anything else for the inventor it means to invest money ! money , money and money again to keep the trade of lawyers doing swell , no matter what the benefit if any for the inventor )
II.
# 1 ; 3 ; 6
III.
# 5
So-called Bio-Fuel is of course
- N-O-T -
CO2-neutral !
I wonder how so many people can believe this greatest fraud ever invented since ...
( complete by your own choice )
On the contrary Bio-Fuel really presents yet another major death cause for precious rain forests and other natural resources , even threatening agricultural food production , at least sending prices skywards of basic nourishments for a large part , actually the majority ! of people world-wide and contributing to a further (!) speeding up of present day's over-exploitation of the planet's resources while at the same time devastating them , basically in consequence of general ignorance , unbelievable stupidity , incredible selfishness and recklessness . In a nutshell , it's a scheme to keep 'the addict at the needle and the pusher in business' after should-be turn-around point of Peak-Oil has been passed , instead of going ahead at full power with what has to be done as concerns research and innovation in the field of energy supply structures . But just look at what they have 'agreed' at the latest environmental summit meeting ...
Kind regards
Juniatha
Good grief. Tough question. Am I allowed to say "all of the above," with the exception of a couple? So... I'd say expand the magazine by a few pages and get them all in! ;-) I'm a docent at the California State RR Museum in Sacramento; I volunteer as a guide in the museum, a car attendant on our weekend trains (we're an "official" RR - we have one freight customer) and I work on locomotive maintenance in the old SP shop buildings. But above all, I'd call myself a rail technologist. So my primary interests are in rail technologies that involve 1) locomotives, and 2) moving trains over track. So articles on rail maintenance, concrete ties, biodiesel, track geometry, wayside detectors, history of rr technologies, truck design, etc. are what appeal to me. Safety issues, articles about specific car types, etc. - less so. Hope that helps a little!
I think you might want to combine some of these and do more of an overview. Some are way too specific.... Here are some of my thoughts on where you might go with this.
Wayside detector data: This is a biggie. The interesting thing going on is the notion of trending - comparing data detector to detector in order to reduce false positives (expensive!) and worse yet, missed defects. Look to see what the state of the art is with each type of detector: hotbox (the granddaddy), WILD, Acoustic, "stuck truck", etc.
Wheels, axles, bearings and coupler/draft gear have had unchanged function over the years - and even unchanged "fit". But, they are certainly not the same as when they started. A timeline of improvements of each would be interesting.
There have been huge advances lately in applying electronic software and hardware to equipment, train control and dispatching. Is there synergy between these? For example, if you do electronic airbrakes plus PTC plus distributed power plus movement planning in train dispatching, is the whole greater than the sum of the parts? Does electronic airbrake improve info feeding PTC? Does this allow closer train spacing? Does this help a movement planner smooth traffic over the road? Does distributed power plus electronic air brake allow for load/empty braking? Lower buff/draft forces? Lighter light weights? Cheaper to build freight cars?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
[snipped by PDN]
Bucyrus Yes, Trains did once have a two-part dissertation on the three-piece freight car truck. That was one of my all time favorites. I am not sure what could be added to what that article covered.
"The hardware that supports, guides, and cushions freight cars - The remarkable three-piece freight-car truck-1", by Armstrong, John H., from Trains, July 1983, p. 50
"Hunting? Rock and Roll? How do we hang the brake rigging? - The remarkable three-piece freight-car truck-2", by Armstrong, John H., from Trains, August 1983, p. 46.
Bucyrus Speaking of freight car trucks, one topic that I feel has been neglected in most publications is locomotive trucks. Now that is a fertile technical area in the non-geek sense of the word. If ever there were a mechanical assembly that just bristled with questions, it is the diesel-electric power truck. There must be a ton of explanations and illustrations that could clarify the details of how modern locomotive trucks work. And it would be interesting to see how current practice compares with earlier trucks of Alco, Baldwin, and FM.
Bucyrus On this forum, we once had a long thread on how force is transmitted through automatic couplers. I would like to see an article on this topic. It is only the coupler, but a clear and graphic explanation would be a monumental challenge.
Been a few others since (and likely before) then, too.
- Paul North.
The ones that appeal to me, in no prticular order:
Concrete ties are wearing out much faster than expected. What's causing the premature wear and rail seat abrasion, and what can be done about it? (After BNSF's two derailments for this cause, they have set up new procedures for measuring with the geometry car. Histroical issues go way back to some issues CN had with concrete ties in the 80/90's)
Currently, a handful of specialized railcars measure track geometry. What if that equipment could be installed on a freight car that runs at track speed throughout the system sending information back to a server? What if it was installed on a lot of cars? (FRA is doing this now as a test with Amtrak with instrumented equipment on the Auto Train)
Principals of thermite welding: It's a great show, but what exactly is going on? (Always fun playing with fire)
A warning system worn on track workers' arms that alerts them when a train enters their work zone (Big concern of FRA which is why you keep seeing more and more proposed regulations dealing with this area)
What is rail milling and how does it differ from grinding? When do you mill and when do you grind? What's the difference between grinding as a preventive measure and corrective? (ARM and others can talk for ages on this)
Introduction to MRail, an unattended system that measures rail four feet ahead of a loaded freight car, as well as under load to determine the deflection and help maintenance crews prioritize locations for undercutting or ballast cleaning (Similar to the second item above)
Wayside detectors are now sending volumes of information to railroads, but who's available to study it and make sense of all the data? Ensco has introduced a system to compile and compare the information, then prioritize the work that needs to be done (Also somewhat similar to the second item above, but it is an excellent question about how to digest all this info)
As Mudchicken said, we could have a quorum at AREMA with several of the people mentioned. That's where the track, structures and signal questions are being studied, with a lot of help from places like TTCI, Volpe, TRB, etc.
Here is one that should have been on there the Effects of adding EGR onto Diesel Engines and teh Added Maintance needed to keep them Running. Sorry but the OTR side has had to deal with as we call them the Engine Gut removers as when they fail next thing your going to see normally is the Turbo coming apart followed by the Crankcase coming apart then the Pistons and Rods coming OUT OF THE BLOCK.
See all the designs are Water Cooled and when they fail what happens when you mix water and oil under Pressure you get Mayonasse in the Crankcase and what fails REAL FAST when your trying to lube them with Mayo the Bearings of the Motor. My neighbor his old Company truck an 08 Freightliner that when it lost its EGR valve sent the #2 Connecting Rod of an ISX Cummins out the side of the Block at 65 MPH and took out his Air System. Have fun dealing with these things in a few years.
One thing also that should have been on there is Emergancy Hatches for the Crew but there is no place for them on the Conductors side with the Invertor Cabinets there maybe the Roof if the Loco Overturns instead.
Wholeheartedly agreed!
- Erik
Yes, Trains did once have a two-part dissertation on the three-piece freight car truck. That was one of my all time favorites. I am not sure what could be added to what that article covered.
The term “Tech Column” needs clarification. Does “tech” simply mean technical, or does it mean tech as in everything to do with computers, software, wireless devices, and social networking?
I would like to see more than a monthly column on technical items. Depending on the role of a tech column, it could mean that there will be less technical coverage in the magazine as a whole. Technical items need a lot of explanation. Can it be done in a column?
Speaking of freight car trucks, one topic that I feel has been neglected in most publications is locomotive trucks. Now that is a fertile technical area in the non-geek sense of the word. If ever there were a mechanical assembly that just bristled with questions, it is the diesel-electric power truck. There must be a ton of explanations and illustrations that could clarify the details of how modern locomotive trucks work. And it would be interesting to see how current practice compares with earlier trucks of Alco, Baldwin, and FM.
On this forum, we once had a long thread on how force is transmitted through automatic couplers. I would like to see an article on this topic. It is only the coupler, but a clear and graphic explanation would be a monumental challenge.
Box? There was a box?
Kathi,
I'm pretty sure that Trains did an article on three piece trucks a while back, describing the how the whole thing is held together by gravity.
Things that intrigue me:
Wayside monitor of braking effectiveness
Concrete tie wear
Tank cars for hazmat
Vertical rim splits
Axle fatigure life improvement (FWIW, the first major studies of metal fatigue involved RR axles)
I'd also like to see the articles that don't show up in print be available on the website - since I've been a long term subscriber, it wouldn't bother me to have the articles as subscriber only.
Thanks for bringing this to the forum!
Bucyrus Now you are thinking outside the box.
Now you are thinking outside the box.
See.. hope for me yet.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Be cheaper to hire a bunch of railfans to follow RRers around and poke them with sticks. They'd probably work for free (just for the chance to get in the engine cabs).
Be cheaper to hire a bunch of railfans to follow RRers around and poke them with sticks. They'd probably work for free (just for the chance to get in the engine cabs).
Kathi, here's what I would love to read about:
Keep up the great work! It's always a happy day when the latest copy of TRAINS shows up in the mailbox...
zugmann Bucyrus: Also interesting would be the development of a hand-carried, personal fatigue detector to warn railroad workers against the sudden onset of sleep-inducing fatigue resulting from nightshift sleep disorders. Hmmm.... somehow I'm not surprised.
Bucyrus: Also interesting would be the development of a hand-carried, personal fatigue detector to warn railroad workers against the sudden onset of sleep-inducing fatigue resulting from nightshift sleep disorders.
Also interesting would be the development of a hand-carried, personal fatigue detector to warn railroad workers against the sudden onset of sleep-inducing fatigue resulting from nightshift sleep disorders.
Hmmm.... somehow I'm not surprised.
I am asking for news on a device that will protect workers from spontaneous loss of consciousness when suddenly falling asleep due to being subjected to the unpredictable onset of fatigue as predicted by the NTSB. This is a very difficult problem to resolve; much worse, for example, that this item #1 on Kathi’s list:
“A waning system worn on track workers’ arms that alerts them when a train enters their work zone.”
For that, they can keep their attention focused.
But I am not sure whether the fatigue monitor could be worn on the arm or if it would require a helmet.
Kathi: I am going to be different (what's new)....
No particular ranking, since I would be interested in all of the following:
Philadelphia - #1,2,3,5 & 6
Chicago - #1,3,4,5,6 & 7
DE - #1,2,3 & 4
Mookie
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Bucyrus Also interesting would be the development of a hand-carried, personal fatigue detector to warn railroad workers against the sudden onset of sleep-inducing fatigue resulting from nightshift sleep disorders.
tree68 In no particular order: A warning system worn on track workers' arms that alerts them when a train enters their work zone. A digitized train horn that uses soundwave research to direct the sound to the crossings but away from sleeping residents. (Especially in light of the continuing push for quiet zones.) Just what does it take to get a patent on a new technology? A consultant walks us through the process. (Particularly if you walk a specific invention through the process.) Basics of roller bearings: What's inside the enclosure, how do they work, what happens when they fail? (And why do we carry Tempil sticks?) Basics of three-piece truck: What are all the parts and what do they do? What's a yaw damper?? How do the parts work together? (Basic background information - the stuff one never really considers.) Wayside detectors are now sending volumes of information to railroads, but who's available to study it and make sense of all the data? Ensco has introduced a system to compile and compare the information, then prioritize the work that needs to be done. Currently, a handful of specialized railcars measure track geometry. What if that equipment could be installed on a freight car that runs at track speed throughout the system sending information back to a server? What if it was installed on a lot of cars? Concrete ties are wearing out much faster than expected. What's causing the premature wear and rail seat abrasion, and what can be done about it? How viable is biodiesel for everyday railroading? What challenges remain to make it more practical?
In no particular order:
A warning system worn on track workers' arms that alerts them when a train enters their work zone.
A digitized train horn that uses soundwave research to direct the sound to the crossings but away from sleeping residents. (Especially in light of the continuing push for quiet zones.)
Just what does it take to get a patent on a new technology? A consultant walks us through the process. (Particularly if you walk a specific invention through the process.)
Basics of roller bearings: What's inside the enclosure, how do they work, what happens when they fail? (And why do we carry Tempil sticks?)
Basics of three-piece truck: What are all the parts and what do they do? What's a yaw damper?? How do the parts work together? (Basic background information - the stuff one never really considers.)
Wayside detectors are now sending volumes of information to railroads, but who's available to study it and make sense of all the data? Ensco has introduced a system to compile and compare the information, then prioritize the work that needs to be done.
Currently, a handful of specialized railcars measure track geometry. What if that equipment could be installed on a freight car that runs at track speed throughout the system sending information back to a server? What if it was installed on a lot of cars?
Concrete ties are wearing out much faster than expected. What's causing the premature wear and rail seat abrasion, and what can be done about it?
How viable is biodiesel for everyday railroading? What challenges remain to make it more practical?
+1 on this list
edblysard Mudchicken, you mean she didn't know you guys were nuts to start off with?
Mudchicken, you mean she didn't know you guys were nuts to start off with?
3. Pictorial histories: Wheels and rails have changed a great deal from railroading's early days. See how they've evolved in the past 150 years
4. Basics of three-piece truck: What are all the parts and what do they do? What's a yaw damper?? How do the parts work together?
3 through 5 kinda interchangeable, #1 and #2 have, for me, are of a more personal/professional concern.
Would love to see a tech column, info junkies would too!
Mudchicken, you mean she didn't kwon you guys were nuts to start off with?
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Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
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