But if they had to go for 100% grade separation, would it have been built? or would the costs have been too high?
I think we should be glad that light rail was there, the way that driver was operating her vehicle. At least she hit something she couldn't hurt. (better the light rail than a bicyclist)
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
It has been widely observed that many drivers believe the crossing protection devices are advisory as opposed to regulatory. I believe this mistake plays a significant role in many crossing crashes. Of course, the signals and gates are mostly regulatory, but it is not too hard to see how this driver misinterpretation comes about.
When a driver stops at a red traffic signal, he or she knows that the signal is not controlled by the traffic. Instead, the signal operates on its own predetermined cycle, completely oblivious to the passing traffic. So drivers know that the signals will change their aspect on a predictable interval regardless of traffic conditions. So the driver feels control of the situation by surrendering control to the signals. The driver knows that the signals will change every few minutes no matter what traffic is doing.
On the contrary, grade crossing signals are activated by the approaching trains. And it is possible for trains to activate the signals when they do not intend to cross, or will take a lot more time approaching than would be needed to warn drivers to yield. So, because a driver cannot predict what a train will do, he or she cannot know when the signals will clear. Sometimes the signals are prohibiting traffic when no train is present. That can go on for hours. So drivers naturally feel a need to decide for themselves whether an activated crossing signal is actually indicating a danger from an approaching train.
While the vast majority of drivers approaching an activated grade crossing will stop, I believe that most of those drivers will also consider whether or not they should stop. And yet, I suspect that hardly any drivers approach a red traffic signal and consider whether they should stop or not. Approaching a grade crossing with the mindset of deciding whether it is safe to cross is looking at grade crossing protection through the advisory lens. That does not mean that these drivers think the warning does not need to be heeded if there is danger. It is just that they believe it is up to them to decide if there is danger.
Indeed, crossings without gates are advisory, at least on a conditional basis. A passive (non-signalized) crossing tells a driver that a crossing exists, and that he or she must yield to trains. But that action is not that easy to define. The law stipulates that it means to stop and wait for an approaching train if it poses a danger. So again, the driver is placed in the position of deciding whether an approaching train meets the criteria of constituting a danger. So, for all practical purposes, passive crossings are advisory.
Signalized crossings without gates require vehicles to stop if the signals are flashing. But then the law permits them to proceed against the flashing lights if it is safe to do so. So after stopping, the signals are advisory. In the case of these non-gated, signalized crossings and of passive crossings, it is not just that drivers mistakenly believe they are advisory. The crossings actually are advisory in an actual legal sense.
It is only the gates that are 100% regulatory. If the gates are down, you cannot pass them under any circumstance. But many drivers do not realize that the gates are sacrosanct. So they approach activated, gated crossings still with the conscious consideration of whether or not they should stop. If they think there is time to get across, they may go around the gates. In their minds, they might very well be proceeding when it is safe to do so. If they don’t get hit by the train, they assume they were correct.
Bucyrus It is only the gates that are 100% regulatory. If the gates are down, you cannot pass them under any circumstance. But many drivers do not realize that the gates are sacrosanct. So they approach activated, gated crossings still with the conscious consideration of whether or not they should stop. If they think there is time to get across, they may go around the gates. In their minds, they might very well be proceeding when it is safe to do so. If they don’t get hit by the train, they assume they were correct.
Or, in the case of the one I just posted above, just go THROUGH the lowered gates. After all, they seem to be made to break away.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Dave,
I suspect the article is incorrect in saying the driver in the video was trying to beat the train. Sure it is possible for someone to intentionally bust through the gates, but I don't think that is common. I suspect the driver in the video was distracted.
The gates break away like other roadside structures. That is itended to prevent someone from getting killed, but I would think such collisions would easily do at least minor damage to a vehicle.
Working my train last night, saw some overly intelligent person drive around the barriers to save a few seconds.
Bucyrus:
Of course she was not trying to beat the train, and of course the collision with the gate would cause damage. I was being sarcastic to make the point that you cannot make grade level crossings idiot proof. Four quadrant gates wouldn't have prevented this, median barriers would not have prevented this. She did not try to go around the gate, which was only blocking one lane. She just failed to see the gate or the flashing lights and she failed to hear the bells or the train horn. One has to wonder what she was doing or if she was conscious.
Phoebe Vet Bucyrus: Of course she was not trying to beat the train, and of course the collision with the gate would cause damage. I was being sarcastic to make the point that you cannot make grade level crossings idiot proof. Four quadrant gates wouldn't have prevented this, median barriers would not have prevented this. She did not try to go around the gate, which was only blocking one lane. She just failed to see the gate or the flashing lights and she failed to hear the bells or the train horn. One has to wonder what she was doing or if she was conscious.
I wonder if a bridge would have even stopped her from getting hit.
I suppose she could have run into the bridge supports. But at least she wouldn't have been hit by the train.
BucyrusWhen a driver stops at a red traffic signal, he or she knows that the signal is not controlled by the traffic. Instead, the signal operates on its own predetermined cycle, completely oblivious to the passing traffic. So drivers know that the signals will change their aspect on a predictable interval regardless of traffic conditions. So the driver feels control of the situation by surrendering control to the signals. The driver knows that the signals will change every few minutes no matter what traffic is doing.
Not.
I wish I had a few bucks for every time I've been caught by a red light which was triggered by oncoming traffic on the intersecting street/road.
Virtually every traffic light I encounter is controlled by traffic, not a set timer. I've had lights stay green as I approached from a great distance - only to have a car arrive at the intersection before I did and turn the light in my face.
I've been stuck for extended periods of time at lights that didn't trigger properly on my approach for whatever reason. On occasion I've had to make a "right on red" followed by a U turn to get through the intersection without actually running the red light. Conditions permitting, many drivers will go through the red light if it doesn't seem to be operating properly.
Lights at complicated intersections may not even run the same sequence each cycle, responding instead to sensed traffic (particularly true of left turn lanes).
Next time you pass through a traffic light controlled intersection, look for grooves in the pavement covered by tar. They usually take the form of rectangles at and some distance before the intersection, and have additional lines leading to the side of the road.
That's the traffic sensors controlling the light at that intersection.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Phoebe Vet Yesterday a woman went around the gates and got broadsided by a light rail train at a grade level crossing that did not exist until they built the light rail line several years ago. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/06/18/3325904/woman-hurt-in-car-light-rail-collision.html Like I said before: Step one - stop building NEW grade level crossings. They went up and over several roads, even building a couple of elevated stations, but they also created several new grade level crossings. Two of the roads they went up and over still have grade level crossings for the NS track that parallels the Light rail for part of the route.
Yesterday a woman went around the gates and got broadsided by a light rail train at a grade level crossing that did not exist until they built the light rail line several years ago.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/06/18/3325904/woman-hurt-in-car-light-rail-collision.html
Like I said before: Step one - stop building NEW grade level crossings.
They went up and over several roads, even building a couple of elevated stations, but they also created several new grade level crossings. Two of the roads they went up and over still have grade level crossings for the NS track that parallels the Light rail for part of the route.
The Comments section said there were gates there. Does that mean we can't install new traffic lights anymore, for fear that somebody will drive through a red light because there wasn't a signal there before.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Modelcar I like the improvement the four quadrant, center barrier does over a standard flashing light, and the normal two crossing arms crossing. Assuming it really does that 98% improvement.....that's very significant to the point I'd call it contained. In a perfect world, no...but we all know perfect is not possible. The crossing at the Netherlands live cam site...seems to get very good respect.
I like the improvement the four quadrant, center barrier does over a standard flashing light, and the normal two crossing arms crossing.
Assuming it really does that 98% improvement.....that's very significant to the point I'd call it contained. In a perfect world, no...but we all know perfect is not possible.
The crossing at the Netherlands live cam site...seems to get very good respect.
That's because has more adults than the US. Too many Americans don't grow up, they just grow old. (If they're lucky.)
Your apples vs oranges comparison is a red herring.
This always ends up begging the question ...how did we manage to do things before the two lane wide crossing barriers, the flashing lights, the bells, the whistles, the median barriers.....
Was it by....
Accident?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinder This always ends up begging the question ...how did we manage to do things before the two lane wide crossing barriers, the flashing lights, the bells, the whistles, the median barriers..... Was it by.... Accident?
In the 1960's, many crossings on the UP (C&NW Galena div) were 4 quadrant, with flashing lights and bells, and in the 1950's and earlier were manned.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm blownout cylinder: This always ends up begging the question ...how did we manage to do things before the two lane wide crossing barriers, the flashing lights, the bells, the whistles, the median barriers..... Was it by.... Accident? In the 1960's, many crossings on the UP (C&NW Galena div) were 4 quadrant, with flashing lights and bells, and in the 1950's and earlier were manned.
blownout cylinder: This always ends up begging the question ...how did we manage to do things before the two lane wide crossing barriers, the flashing lights, the bells, the whistles, the median barriers..... Was it by.... Accident?
I'm thinking in terms of rural/semi rural/suburban areas...I know north of where we live many crossings were just crossbucks...
I was referring to an area that was outer suburban in those days.
another grade crossing fouled by an automobile which got creamed.
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Train-Pushes-Car-Along-Tracks-in-New-Haven-Critically-Injury-Reported-159991055.html
Another ped
http://lewistownsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/535244/Coroner--Teen-dies-after-being-struck-by-train.html?nav=5010
Another ped hit by Metrolink today.
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_20934064/this-just-metrolink-fatality-san-fernando?source=most_viewed
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/06/27/3345465/wreck-prone-kings-mountain-crossing.html
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.