edblysardAll the FRA variances issued also contain the requirement that, if the locomotive engineer feels there is a clear and ongoing danger to the train, pedestrians or automobile traffic, he must sound his horn in a standard crossing signal.
This is what I do not quite understand about the article linked to the first post. I understand the premise of requiring horn blowing in a quiet zone in the case of danger to the train, pedestrian, or drivers. The obvious example of that scenario is that a driver or pedestrian appears to intend to not yield to the train. However, the issue cited in the article is obstructed visibility of the engineer to approaching pedestrians or vehicles.
Does the lack of visibility constitute a requirement to sound the horn because an engineer cannot see an approaching pedestrian or driver, and therefore cannot verify that a possible approaching pedestrian or drivers appears to intend to yield to the train?
If that is the case, then a crossing with no visibility for the engineer would require blowing the horn every time at the crossing whether a pedestrian or driver were approaching or not.
That would be my interpretation of what is happening in the case cited by the article.
BroadwayLion There are several issues in creating a quiet zone. First the zone must be at least 3 miles long. They will not quiet one road just to blow off the horns on the next block. New highway engineering must be done at local expense. These could be four quadrant gates, or a raised barrier between the highway lanes. There are others. In Bismarck they wanted trains to stop blowing at the Fraine Barracks Crossing. Railroad said it was a public crossing and others said no it was not since it only served the Barracks (and the back gate at that) . They have been dancing around that issue for some time, and I do not remember how it worked out.
There are several issues in creating a quiet zone. First the zone must be at least 3 miles long. They will not quiet one road just to blow off the horns on the next block.
New highway engineering must be done at local expense. These could be four quadrant gates, or a raised barrier between the highway lanes. There are others.
In Bismarck they wanted trains to stop blowing at the Fraine Barracks Crossing. Railroad said it was a public crossing and others said no it was not since it only served the Barracks (and the back gate at that) . They have been dancing around that issue for some time, and I do not remember how it worked out.
Broadway, the NIMBYs got the state to find the Fraine Barracks crossing was indeed private, so the trains don't blow for it anymore unless a motorist is in sight. The present effort, by downtown interests, is directed (I believe) at three crossings only, between 3rd and 12th streets, which is well short of the 3-mile requirement you claim.
You can make announcements in the local newspaper, you can put up barricades, you can employ flaggers and you will still see people try to go through the crossing. And the police are just as bad as the general public...It's amazing how clueless drivers can be.
http://www.theindependent.com/news/local/city-union-pacific-work-out-deal-to-resume-quiet-zone/article_9986a400-ac6f-11e1-9b67-0019bb2963f4.html
dakotafred BroadwayLion: There are several issues in creating a quiet zone. First the zone must be at least 3 miles long. They will not quiet one road just to blow off the horns on the next block. New highway engineering must be done at local expense. These could be four quadrant gates, or a raised barrier between the highway lanes. There are others. In Bismarck they wanted trains to stop blowing at the Fraine Barracks Crossing. Railroad said it was a public crossing and others said no it was not since it only served the Barracks (and the back gate at that) . They have been dancing around that issue for some time, and I do not remember how it worked out. Broadway, the NIMBYs got the state to find the Fraine Barracks crossing was indeed private, so the trains don't blow for it anymore unless a motorist is in sight. The present effort, by downtown interests, is directed (I believe) at three crossings only, between 3rd and 12th streets, which is well short of the 3-mile requirement you claim.
BroadwayLion: There are several issues in creating a quiet zone. First the zone must be at least 3 miles long. They will not quiet one road just to blow off the horns on the next block. New highway engineering must be done at local expense. These could be four quadrant gates, or a raised barrier between the highway lanes. There are others. In Bismarck they wanted trains to stop blowing at the Fraine Barracks Crossing. Railroad said it was a public crossing and others said no it was not since it only served the Barracks (and the back gate at that) . They have been dancing around that issue for some time, and I do not remember how it worked out.
The crossings can all be right next to each other, but the quiet zone has to be at least three miles long, or so I am told. If Fraine Barracks is quiet, then there are no horn crossing from Mandan eastward. So according to the way I understand it, the quiet zone will be quite long enough, especially with the barracks road quiet.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Not real sure what you don't understand....the UP spokesman, Mark Davis, said the sight line for train crews is obstructed, they have had a near miss already, there are no stationary horns facing the street to warn automobile traffic or pedestrians, UP believes the crossing is un safe unless the engineer sounds the horn, therefore they are going to sound the train horn at that location.
That is precisely why the FRA includes that clause in the variance rule.
23 17 46 11
Ed,
The article says the quiet zone was short lived. I guess that means the quiet was short lived, since the quiet zone itself remains intact while the horn blowing is just a legal exception within the quiet zone. The article also refers to horn blowing at Pine St. on an as-needed basis, suggesting that it might be needed sometimes and not at other times. But, as I understand it, the as-needed basis for Pine Street will be needed all the time because of inadequate visibility. And as you point out, horn blowing is always required on an as-needed basis within a quiet zone.
So I conclude that, until something is changed with the Pine St. crossing they have a quiet zone with horn blowing always performed at one crossing within the quiet zone.
Correct. The city may have to install chain link type swing fences that will lock pedestrians etc off of the ROW. Failing that: Toot Toot!
I have watched trespassers in Grand Island have near misses with the with the no trespassing signs because they were too busy walking along thinking about God only knows what. How do you about walk into a sign post???
PigFarmer1 I have watched trespassers in Grand Island have near misses with the with the no trespassing signs because they were too busy walking along thinking about God only knows what. How do you about walk into a sign post???
One step at a time!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Yep... the same way the lady (texting on her cell phone) walked in the low wall around the fountain in the shopping mall and fell headlong into the water!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo Yep... the same way the lady (texting on her cell phone) walked in the low wall around the fountain in the shopping mall and fell headlong into the water!
What else can you say?
Thx IGN
From the view inside the cab I watch people drive their cars around the gates everyday in front of my approaching train. Interestingly though many people who start to drive around the gates abruptly stop once I start blowing the horn. We don't have any crossings on my territory that are quiet zones and I'm thankful for it. I know the horn is loud and it gets on peoples nerves but it is loud for a reason. With the way cars are built and people inside of them blaring their music loud enough they can't hear an ambulance siren at least they can hear a K5 on a Dash 9-40CW coming at them!
On a side note almost all of our engines are equipped with front mounted cameras. I've heard since their installation almost 100% of people who have tried to take the railroad to court when their loved one was killed at a crossing accident have dropped their case upon seeing the video footage.
In my opinion if a town doesn't want a train to blow its horn at a crossing then build a bridge and close the crossing! Otherwise, like someone else said don't be an idiot and buy a house next to railroad tracks! The rail line had probably been there at least 75 years before someone built the house.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.