One day last week I showed up for work just as the first group to take this year's rules test were tying up. 12 out of 17 failed it. One who just passed it by one question said to me, "A lot of good railroaders failed it."
On another forum, populated mostly by railroaders, a person from Chicago said 33 out of 40 failed it. On the second try, 24 of the 33 failed it again. (Normally, two strikes and you're out although I know of some who've been given a third, final chance before.)
Some, including it sounds like some officers, think the test might be flawed. Especially the part that refers to Air Brake/Train Handling rules. We are getting a new AB/TH rule book in a week or two. The correct answers on the test reflect the new book, not the current rules. Not everyone has yet received the new book. Some rules have been changed.
I haxe to take it in October. I have the study guide. A few have said the study guide this time around doesn't really help with the test. Some of the questions on the study guide are. in my opinion, questionable. They don't belong on a test. As an example, one question sets up a scenario where you're being tested by a manager in the field with a red board. The question doesn't ask what actions you take, but is this a valid test? Validity or fairness of a manager's field test is usually decided later. Sometimes on appeal of discipline when a person has failed, sometimes to stop a precedent from being set when they passed.
I guess that should be added to the "life of a young conductor." Every couple of years you have to retake and pass the rules tests to keep your job.
Jeff
We do rules every year, and brakes every other year. Add to that "special interest" stuff like the recent electronic device mandates and it turns into a long weekend (we're mostly volunteer).
On top of that, the passing score on a couple of the tests was 100%. No room for error or a misinterpreted question.
With conductor certification coming, it's just gonna get more involved.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm so glad that's all behind me. Each time, before I'd take my tests, I'd be hearing rumors about how the one coming up was harder than before. I managed to pass them all, usually by comfortable margins, But I was uncomfortable afterwards, especially about air brake rules, since I never had the occasion to make brake tests or inspections in the course of my job (on the hump, air is The Enemy!).
(Note...a lot of the yard guys complained about the signals covered on the tests, how they'd never have to use those, etc. That wasn't a problem for me--I was a railfan, and use those signals to figure out what I'm about to see happen. They never gave me a bit of worry!)
The last three or four times I took the test, we had a couple of facilitators--yard men like ourselves who would conduct the study classes. They were not able to actually administer the tests--a manager had to do that. But I understand that they no longer have "agreement" trainers. I'm not sure the managers have the same interest in having "their" people pass the tests and understand what they're doing afterwards.
Jeff, I was lucky in a way--I never had to take the number of tests that you, an engineer, have to!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Jeff, Larry, I understand perfectly why knowledge of rules is essential to road work. Apparently not all the test writers know what they are asking.
The last eight years I worked, I had to be certified to ship hazmat by air and by ground, and I was recertified every other year for air and every third year for ground. Actually, we were not graded for our knowledge of the instruction, but were passed if we attended all the sessions. The carrier drivers also had to have knowledge of the regulations--and from time to time I had to instruct them (the first time I shipped "empty" gas cylinders, the truck driver told me he could not accept all of my shipment as it was--and he was right). Once a government inspector came by and wanted to see my certification papers; had I not had them, I would have not been allowed to ship. He also looked at the hazmat that was in my care to make certain that everything was marked as it should be. The air regulations were much stricter than the ground regulations (no inhalation hazard gases at all, among other things).
When I compare ETT's of several years ago with more recent ones, it is obvious that the proper care with hazmat has become more serious.
Johnny
jeffhergert [snipped] Some, including it sounds like some officers, think the test might be flawed. Especially the part that refers to Air Brake/Train Handling rules. We are getting a new AB/TH rule book in a week or two. The correct answers on the test reflect the new book, not the current rules. Not everyone has yet received the new book. Some rules have been changed.
Actually, it might be a good idea to have a couple officers/ managers who ought to know the subject - RFE's, Air Brake Supervisors, etc. - take the test, and see if they too have trouble passing it. I'll withhold any cynicism about that, but if enough don't, then maybe someone will realize that for sure the test is flawed, not the people taking it.
If not - and those numbers of crewmen are mindlessly discharged - I want to be first in line for tickets to watch the hearing after the union 'grieves' that the test is factually incorrect and unfair, it goes to arbitration, and expert witnesses proceed to demonstrate 'chapter and verse' where the test is wrong. But it'll never get that far - the disruption to train operations in the meantime caused by a lack of qualified crews will cause questions to be asked, explanations demanded, and orders to be given that will restore some sanity to the process. Not all change is progress, anad it does go wrong sometimes . . .
- Paul North.
Our managers have to take the new rules test every year before they can give the classes. How do I know?
They've asked me for help.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
We've encountered this with the state EMT tests. Every now and then a test will come across with dismal scores. It's quite obvious that the problem isn't the students - it's very unlikely one particular group would be that bad statewide.
In response to Larry's post: Particularly if you can then isolate and focus on the few questions that almost everyone is having trouble with, and the answer(s) that are taking them astray - it becomes pretty clear.
zug - LOL ! I rest my case . . .
Further on Jeff's posts: Didn't some great and widely-respected ex-C&NW rules guru retire from the UP this past year, or the year before ? MIght it be that his replacement isn't quite as sharp (for whatever reason), hence this snafu ?
Well, it's official: I just finished up my 5th year on the railroad. Now I'm one step closer to almost having a clue as to what I'm doing out here. But still a long way to go...
zugmann Well, it's official: I just finished up my 5th year on the railroad.
Well, it's official: I just finished up my 5th year on the railroad.
"+1" Did you get a stripe for your uniform sleeve ? Or at least a vest ?
Zug,
Congratulations! I finished my 20th year at work last week, and had almost two years before that as a consultant.
- Erik
Congratulations, Tom! Only three more and you can get that third week of vacation!
Frustration today, but I received a bit of knowledge in the process.
After the eastbound scoot had left the station at Lombard and passed the new control point, I saw something I'd never seen before there: a Restricting signal (flashing red over red), giving permission for a following train to proceed through the control point without stopping, prepared to stop short within half the range of vision, etc., etc. Naturally, I expected that something might be following our scoot fairly closely. But I waited while the signal changed from flashing red to yellow, to flashing yellow, to green...nothing (keep in mind that anything other than solid red indicates that the dispatcher has lined up a move). I continued to wait...went to the depot for a while, back to a store, saw a westbound stack train, but there was still no eastbound when I finally gave up more than a half hour later.
Carl - I think I've seen that phenomenon at Deshler. With ATCS available there, one can see what the DS has lined up, and I'm pretty sure there was a following movement so aligned one night. I don't remember the exact movements, or whether the next train finally got green or came in on an approach.
I don't know if all control points can give a Restricting (slang; come along) but many can. That is if the dispatcher lines up a following move. There are even a few old CNW three headed signals that use a lunar indication for this.
Yup...got those in Elmhurst. You see the lunar during the morning Fleet run behind nearly every scoot that goes through there.
Well, if you're looking for a project to kill some time, and don't mind burning up a little ink from your printer, go to http://photobucket.com/CantonIsland, print off the first 14 "Panorama" images, and "stitch" them together.
Taken in 1971 or 1972, this series of pictures show the view from the top of the weather radar tower (which I was there to maintain) - a shot of which is also included in the album. The site is a coral atoll about 1800 miles SSW of Hawaii.
Canton (now Kanton) Island is about 4 miles wide and 9 miles long, with a lagoon in the middle. The lighter colored water is the lagoon. The darker water, across the island, is the Pacific Ocean.
We were there to observe the "landing" of missiles launched from Vandenberg AFB, CA.
Plugging S 2.76982 W 171.71686 into Acme Mapper (or any other such program) will put you right about where the tower was. Most of the buildings in the images are gone now, I suspect dismantled by scavengers.
Curiously, many of the older buildings still stand, although it appears that little remains of the buildings on the "south side," or "British side" of the island. If you scroll down the island, over the channel, you'll see several interesting formations on the lagoon shoreline. Those were part of the facilities for Pan Am's clippers, which stopped at Canton in the days before planes could make it all the way to Australia.
I spent an interesting year there. The skindiving was spectacular.
The sky is falling here, flake by flake (and it's getting colder, too). We're supposed to have four to eight inches of the stuff by this time tomorrow. By this time tomorrow, we were supposed to be headed east and north to Michigan, but that little jaunt has been scrubbed--it's supposed to be worse on the other side of the lake from us, and there's no way to avoid the snow belt.
I was able to run my errands by bicycle yesterday (and after I was done, I went trackside and lingered until the last headlight disappeared).
In connection with its sesquicentennial, the Union Pacific is inviting municipalities along its line to become "Union Pacific Communities". I'm not sure what that will entail, but interested communities are supposed to have a 500-word application statement. Our village sent its request to the local historical society, who found a certain editor's spouse... I think the historical society and village were both happy with the 400 words I came up with.
Speaking of bicycles, I found out that my older granddaughter has taken advantage of the heretofore nice weather in January to learn to ride a "two-wheeler". My younger granddaughter took great delight in sharing this news with me (she was genuinely proud of her big sister...of course, the younger one has been able to ride since last summer, and can still ride circles around her!).
Was a balmy 12 degrees here last night. Spotted a new car in a warehouse that is about 80 degrees inside. The steam coming off of the cars I had in the building looked like something from the gates of hell. Pretty cool stuff, this railroading at times.
zugmann Pretty cool stuff, this railroading at times.
Pretty cool stuff, this railroading at times.
Cold weather like we are experiencing here (-13°F) can get me thinking about things I will never see again.
Like how the mixed train crew had a piece of canvas that they draped over the diaphragm on the passenger end vestibule of the combine, and they cinched it down with a thick rope against the folds of the diaphragm.
Or storm windows on cabooses.
Or the time an engine crew decided it was too cold to work, so they sat and talked in the waiting room. It seemed OK the first hour, but my Dad was starting to wonder what was going on when they stayed for a second. That happened during the Christmas break during one of my first years of school, and when I recalled the incident to my Dad years later, he still thought it was one of the stranger things he had seen. They weren't happy with the cab heater, but they didn't seem to be doing anything about it, and they didn't ask to use the phone to complain to anybody. He wasn't sure when they were going to leave, and to the day he died he never did know why they picked the time they did, to go.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I like your avatar, Bruce!
We used to have to fill in drafty cracks in the tower windows with paper or whatever (usually old hump sheets). There was one time when the furnace gave up on one of those very cold nights. They brought in a "salamander" to sit in the basement and heat things up (didn't know about their potential for carbon monoxide, I guess), and there was an extra-board guy working in the tower beside me, to do nothing but scrape the ice off the inside of the windows!
____________________
Remember when there was a quiz on the Forum from time to time, often a "Where-am-I" sort of thing? Well...
I actually got in an interesting freight-pacing experience today. We heard the train near one end of the line, not knowing where it was going (I was filling the gas tank at the time). We drove along the old highway...not the Interstate we usually take, nor the "scenic" road I usually like to take, and the train actually caught up to us for a moment. This was a short train, led by two GP40-2s (elegantly painted, numbers 3066 and 3064), on a railroad track that the company never owned. I got out ahead of him before the tracks curved away, switched highways, went into a large city, and was stopped by the same train at a grade crossing. As I crossed the tracks after the gates went up, I saw him going around a curve in the distance, and was amazed by the amount of superelevation in the curve...one would almost have thought that standing still would have invited disaster. It took some doing to catch up to the train again...in spite of the fact that he had a drawbridge to cross, he kept moving very well, receiving clear block signals the whole way (LED lights, some on tri-lights, some on what appeared to be old searchlight-style signals very distinctive to the network of railroads that originally owned the line. However, by pushing the speed limit a bit, I was able to pass him again outside the city, before having to stop at a stop sign. I then caught him again, pacing him at about 50, able to get build dates off some secondhand covered hoppers and observe some truck hunting (the track itself was very smooth. We paced him clear into the next state (a state whose name was part of the name of this railroad's original operator) before the track curved away from the road again.All-righty, then! Anyone want to venture guesses on whose train it was, whose track it was on, and roughly where I was? Lots of clues in here...have at it!
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19763254 Now they steal catenary before the "toy trains" even make their first runs. Why couldn't RTD be load testing the new lines?
Hhmmm, no takers on Carl's 'puzzle' yet, huh? I have not had a moment to even think about it.
Questions:
1. Is it normal for a rail to move up and down quite a bit when the train is passing over it? A news clip showed this the other day (NOT part of their story) and it got me wondering.
2. At a crossing, when the snowplows plow the highway and leave large piles of heavy, wet snow at crossings, does this present a problem for trains? I'm thinking also of after it sits for a while and then refreezes, esp. on a shortline where speeds are lower than the 'open road' and not used all that frequently.
Thanks, as always, and be safe out there, whatever you are doing!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
WMNB4THRTL Question: 2. At a crossing, when the snowplows plow the highway and leave large piles of heavy, wet snow at crossings, does this present a problem for trains? I'm thinking also of after it sits for a while and then refreezes, esp. on a shortline where speeds are lower than the 'open road' and not used all the frequently.
Question:
2. At a crossing, when the snowplows plow the highway and leave large piles of heavy, wet snow at crossings, does this present a problem for trains? I'm thinking also of after it sits for a while and then refreezes, esp. on a shortline where speeds are lower than the 'open road' and not used all the frequently.
Metra in Chicago used to (I don't know if they still do) arrange passenger equipment such that the first trains inbound to Chicago in the morning that originated in Kenosha, Harvard, and McHenry would have the heavier locomotive lead instead of the cab-car.
After years of running cab-cars to the bumping post in the depot, it was very strange the first time I ran a train locomotive-first into the terminal. To see the bumping post disappear below the nose of the loco was very disconcerting (as visions of Silver Streak danced in my head....).
mudchicken Now they steal catenary before the "toy trains" even make their first runs.
Now they steal catenary before the "toy trains" even make their first runs.
If you've ever bought something that you knew, or at least suspected was 'hot', then you can have no complaints when your house or car is broken into.
Nance, I don't think anyone's trying very hard...I put a number of good clues in there for locomotive freaks and historians both.
I'll add another one here: Before we entered the city where this train crossed in front of us, we came to the crossing of another railroad, and found the gates down. We saw a pair of their GP38-2s (2001 and 2003) bobbing along, they crossed in front of us just under the wire(s).
Now, in answer to your first question:
I don't think there's a stretch of railroad anywhere where the track doesn't go down slightly under the wheels as a car passes over--even with empties, and with Class 5 track (pretty good stuff!) like ours, you can see it if you're looking for it. Without seeing what you saw, I wouldn't know if it was excessive or not. But (I think the Mudchicken would agree with me here) the cause of this occurrence is somewhere below the base of the ties, and probably below any well-tamped ballast.
WMNB4THRTL 2. At a crossing, when the snowplows plow the highway and leave large piles of heavy, wet snow at crossings, does this present a problem for trains? I'm thinking also of after it sits for a while and then refreezes, esp. on a shortline where speeds are lower than the 'open road' and not used all that frequently.
This question brings back another winter memory. Back when railways had way more manpower, section men would dig out the grader piles across the tracks, with shovels. If the RR got there first, the road graders could handle whatever the RR left behind. I can recall seeing this at the crossing north of our station at Irricana, and also several miles south of town where the line crossed Highway #9.
After the seventies, or so, when manpower stated dropping precipitously, things got a bit more adversarial. I'm not sure if I read it in one of my books, on a Canadian RR web site, or in TRAINS (magazine/website), but after the manpower cuts you would have the County etc. plowing their snow onto the tracks, then the RR plowing snow back onto the road, and so on. Things would turn confrontational between RR management and elected county officials.
The one situation back in the days mentioned in the first paragraph that could turn bad was if the RR left snow plow piles on school bus routes. Each situation was different but mostly arrangements were made to ensure section men got there before the school bus did.
It's been about three days, and nobody's ventured a guess on this one. (The folks over at Trainorders.com got it in four hours.) So I'll give you the fully-annotated answer to the original herewith.
CShaveRRRemember when there was a quiz on the Forum from time to time, often a "Where-am-I" sort of thing? Well... I actually got in an interesting freight-pacing experience today. We heard the train near one end of the line [Porter, Indiana], not knowing where it was going (I was filling the gas tank [in Chesterton] at the time). We drove along the old highway [U.S. 20]...not the Interstate [94] we usually take, nor the "scenic" road [U.S. 12] I usually like to take, and the train actually caught up to us for a moment. This was a short train, led by two [Norfolk Southern] GP40-2s (elegantly painted, numbers 3066 and 3064), on a railroad track that the company never owned [The line has been owned by Amtrak since 1976, when Conrail was formed]. I got out ahead of him before the tracks curved away, switched highways [Using IN 520 to get to U.S. 12], went into a large city [Michigan City], and was stopped by the same train at a grade crossing [It was on the way into Michigan City that we were stopped by the two "SouthShore Freight" GP38-2s running light under the electrical catenary wires]. As I crossed the tracks after the gates went up, I saw him going around a curve in the distance, and was amazed by the amount of superelevation in the curve...one would almost have thought that standing still would have invited disaster [This line is primed to be part of Amtrak's high-speed route between Chicago and points in lower Michigan]. It took some doing to catch up to the train again...in spite of the fact that he had a drawbridge to cross, he kept moving very well, receiving clear block signals the whole way (LED lights, some on tri-lights, some on what appeared to be old searchlight-style signals very distinctive to the network of railroads [New York Central] that originally owned the line. However, by pushing the speed limit a bit, I was able to pass him again outside the city, before having to stop at a stop sign. I then caught him again, pacing him at about 50, able to get build dates off some secondhand covered hoppers and observe some truck hunting (the track itself was very smooth). We paced him clear into the next state [Michigan] (a state whose name was part of the name of this railroad's original operator [Michigan Central]) before the track curved away from the road again.All-righty, then! Anyone want to venture guesses on whose train it was, whose track it was on, and roughly where I was? Lots of clues in here...have at it!
I actually got in an interesting freight-pacing experience today. We heard the train near one end of the line [Porter, Indiana], not knowing where it was going (I was filling the gas tank [in Chesterton] at the time). We drove along the old highway [U.S. 20]...not the Interstate [94] we usually take, nor the "scenic" road [U.S. 12] I usually like to take, and the train actually caught up to us for a moment. This was a short train, led by two [Norfolk Southern] GP40-2s (elegantly painted, numbers 3066 and 3064), on a railroad track that the company never owned [The line has been owned by Amtrak since 1976, when Conrail was formed]. I got out ahead of him before the tracks curved away, switched highways [Using IN 520 to get to U.S. 12], went into a large city [Michigan City], and was stopped by the same train at a grade crossing [It was on the way into Michigan City that we were stopped by the two "SouthShore Freight" GP38-2s running light under the electrical catenary wires]. As I crossed the tracks after the gates went up, I saw him going around a curve in the distance, and was amazed by the amount of superelevation in the curve...one would almost have thought that standing still would have invited disaster [This line is primed to be part of Amtrak's high-speed route between Chicago and points in lower Michigan]. It took some doing to catch up to the train again...in spite of the fact that he had a drawbridge to cross, he kept moving very well, receiving clear block signals the whole way (LED lights, some on tri-lights, some on what appeared to be old searchlight-style signals very distinctive to the network of railroads [New York Central] that originally owned the line. However, by pushing the speed limit a bit, I was able to pass him again outside the city, before having to stop at a stop sign. I then caught him again, pacing him at about 50, able to get build dates off some secondhand covered hoppers and observe some truck hunting (the track itself was very smooth). We paced him clear into the next state [Michigan] (a state whose name was part of the name of this railroad's original operator [Michigan Central]) before the track curved away from the road again.All-righty, then! Anyone want to venture guesses on whose train it was, whose track it was on, and roughly where I was? Lots of clues in here...have at it!
[My Valentine's Day gift will be a ride over this line to see just how fast things are traveling. I'm betting on 79-95, but it's supposed to be good for 110 soon!]
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