Another quickie with Mookie

[Mookie]

Haven't had one of these for awhile. The first one I posted was an honest mistake as I found out. I just had a quick question and wanted something that would get attention and get answered fast.

Got a lot of attention and not sure I ever got an answer!

But I am older and wiser now, so will just stick this out there and see what happens.

Watching the engineer. He is on the telephone - the engine telephone. Black and on a cord. Who is he talking to and where are they located?

The engine I rode in, the engineer talked on a walkie-talkie to his conductor.

They used to use a radio for communication with the dispatcher, or so I was told.

So who is on the phone?

Mook

[Randy Stahl]

The hand set is connected to the radio... I guess it's handy on locomotives that have the radio out of reach like the desktop control crap that have the radio mounted above the engineers seat... way above the engineers seat. It's handy for the conductor to use too without invading the engineers personal space. No you cannot dial up 1(900) numbers!
Not exactly what I thought this thread would be aboutbut I hope I gave a satisfactory answer anyhow.
Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

The hand set is connected to the radio... I guess it's handy on locomotives that have the radio out of reach like the desktop control crap that have the radio mounted above the engineers seat... way above the engineers seat. It's handy for the conductor to use too without invading the engineers personal space. No you cannot dial up 1(900) numbers!
Not exactly what I thought this thread would be aboutbut I hope I gave a satisfactory answer anyhow.
Randy

Randy-

That's the "A" answer. I hate those damn handsets personally. When I was a Conductor, I and just about everyone else with experience had their own they brought along as most of the ones on the power didn't work. The newer locos have a radio console on the Conductor's side too so you can plug in over there and not bother anyone...

LC

[tree68]

Telephone handsets have been used with two way radio for years. If anyone recalls the opening of "Car 54 Where Are You", you may remember seeing Toody beating a handset on the dash.

As opined, they do allow for some privacy (I've run in ambulances that use them for communications with the hospital), but in the case of a locomotive (especially pre-quiet cab), they also help deal with the background noise problem.

I am surprised that I've never seen the headsets in locomotives like we use in fire trucks - they allow communications with the crew as well as radio communications, and they help save your hearing as well. In addition, it would help eliminate some of the background noise you near when the hogger leaves the mike or handset in the holder, keys it at arms length, and talks loud, usually nearly drowned out by the engine noise...

Randy - with La Mook you can just never tell.....

[Mookie]

You know - Tree brings up a good point! Why not headsets. Our firemen look very sexy with,,,sorry - got sidetracked.

But suppose the train crews are on longer than the firemen are in their trucks, so they wouldn't wear them. But for short periods of time, they would be great.

So are you saying that the phones are just radios with a handset? They do the same thing a regular radio like a CB would do? (sorry, having a female moment.)

[edblysard]

Yup, Mookie,
It replaces the mike on the radio....
These is a button in the hand set you pu***o talk.
And yes Larry, its hard to understand a engineer when he just uses the PTT button or just keys the mike from arms length, and yells at the mike....
Ed

[Mookie]

Kinda like speaker phones! I hate, hate, hate them!

Moo

[cherokee woman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Kinda like speaker phones! I hate, hate, hate them!

Moo

I know what you mean Mookie, about the speaker phones: when you're on
the speaker phone, it makes you sound like your either in the bottom of a
well, or else sounds like you fell into the toilet[:p][}:)] [angel]

[Mookie]

[tup] Perfect!

[locomutt]

Headsets & boom mike are the much better way to go,especially in
fire,and ems apperatus. In an ambulance to only way the tech. in the back
can contact and listen to the driver,and have both hands free,is to use
sometihng like that. And defenitaly in an engine co.,or truck. Most other
people don't realize how loud the sirens are(especially the Q) inside
the confines of the cab.

Avation has used this for years,both hedsets,and helments. You either have a floor,or inline PTT swicth. On the military aircraft (helicopters for me)
You have an intercom panel for the crewchief and another for an extra
crewchief,or flight engineer,and even we, depending on setting, talk just
on intercom,or air to air,or to tower,or what ever.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68
I am surprised that I've never seen the headsets in locomotives like we use in fire trucks - they allow communications with the crew as well as radio communications, and they help save your hearing as well.

If memory serves, I used to see a lot of WC crews in the cab with this type of apparatus. Not sure if it was just a trial period, or if they still use them.

I would think the headphone would get hot in warm weather in an un-airconditioned cab. I always prefered the foam rollup-type ear plugs.

But I do use my ear-protection headphones when I'm within 100yds of the tracks capturing images.

[Modelcar]

....Originally, using cell phones in your auto was simply a telephone like, handset connected to the electronics box containing the workings of the transceiver making it a working "cell phone"....similar to any "two way radio"....as in the railroad engine. Of course we all know now a "transciever" unit such as a cell phone is a self contained small, small unit you hold in the small part of your hand.....and it does the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Shame on you mookie.......[:D].

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF SD70MAC

Shame on you mookie.......[:D].

[*^_^*] I know - bad Mookie - now I will have to go and do penance - eat some chocolate cake....[sigh]

moo

[cherokee woman]

Mookie, eating chocolate cake is not a pennance. It's a REWARD[angel]

[Mookie]

ssshhhhh!

[Anonymous]

I myself have to agree with CW.

[Overmod]

Mookie --

I think most people consider a headset to be a 'personal' item -- it has to fit your head, go over your ears, etc. Would you want to HAVE to put such a thing on your head if it were sitting on the locomotive? In cold weather? After the last guy who used it had greasy hair, and the guy before that too much earwax, and the guy before THAT shared a few of those onions with that NS locomotive?

Alternatively, of course, you could carry your own headset with you and plug it in. But what if you forgot...

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a prohibition against having full earcups over both ears at the same time -- there is, for example, in every state I know of if you're driving a motor vehicle. I'd be worried about this in many cases -- for example if there weren't a tie-in to the cab-signal whistle; ask Randy Gates what he thinks ;-}

My personal 'design' preference is to use a modified cell-phone headset, with noise cancelling in the microphone circuit and only one earphone. Have a standard plug on the locomotive that ties the radio into this headset. Or use short-range wireless (not replacing the 'standard' hard-wired radio or handheld transceivers). Standard wireless networking protocols (e.g. 802.11g) would give you ways to do this cheaply at the same time you integrated other forms of information transmission...

Any contrary opinions?

[Puckdropper]

802.11g doesn't have a large enough range for it to work. You can get maybe engine-to-enine communications, or with external antennas engine to 20th car.

[Overmod]

I was referring strictly to the local link between the headset and the engine (or other primary radio) -- NOT to wireless roaming or actual cellular systems. (I am presuming that one of the existing methods of railroad wireless-data radio is already in use and shouldn't be interfered with.

Bluetooth would also work, and has some power advantages for a headset that's self-contained and runs on batteries, but so far its stuff is more expensive; 802.11b would be cheaper and many of the chip cores and other enabling technology are already costed-down and functionally obsolescent in computer network connection, but my opinion is that the .11g stuff will quickly match it (look at USB1.1 vs. USB 2.x!) and be capable of much more stuff. I'm already planning for video feed to the individual crew members, metadata information, etc. which would otherwise require expen$ive stuff in the equipment the crew would be expected to buy or receive from the RR or union.

I agree that with uni the range would be insufficient... but note that most train-related communications would be in close enough to a straight line that something like a Pringles-can Yagi would make the range. In any case, I do NOT think that train-to-headset transception *wants* to be particularly long range, particularly if the link security is for any reason less than strong.

[Puckdropper]

As far as 802.11b and 802.11g goes, get 802.11g. It's backwards compatible with 802.11b, so if you get a .11g link it could be faster. It's maybe only 10-20% more expensive??? (I don't even look at 802.11b stuff.)

If you're in the cab, why do you need anything like 802.11g at all? A 900 mHz portable phone could do the job if properly installed.

Ah shucks... Let's forget this technology stuff and go back to whistles and hand signals. We rail fans would like to be informed of what will happen. ;-) lol

[Mookie]

Ahem! Back to the question! If engineer is still in yard, uses telephone, who is he talking to, or how far is he calling? Is he talking to someone in the yard, setting up a coupling? Or is he checking with a dispatcher in Texas as to his leaving the yard?

Simple enough....

I personally wouldn't want to use a muff or an earpiece. Have used both and they drive me nuts. But.....hate speaker phones, since like CW said - you sound - well - horrible!
Or in a well! Muff short distances (like firetrucks - perfect) Earplugs - ugh!

So ET call home and tell me who is he talking to and how far away can they be?

[Modelcar]

....A variation of your morning theme Jen....Looked at the NS passing track in west Muncie last evening as we came into town and found the typical cut of grain cars sitting there and for the last 2 days each [different], cut of cars has had 3 and 2 locomotives connected to them....This is different. Have not seen the power there with the grain cars before....No one in the locomotive cabs but could see the instrument panel was lit up.....and Jen, I'm still watching [just for the fun of it], for number 1807 engine you mentioned passing your way last week...None of these were it but were NS engines and we'll keep watching.

[jeffhergert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ahem! Back to the question! If engineer is still in yard, uses telephone, who is he talking to, or how far is he calling? Is he talking to someone in the yard, setting up a coupling? Or is he checking with a dispatcher in Texas as to his leaving the yard?

Simple enough....

I personally wouldn't want to use a muff or an earpiece. Have used both and they drive me nuts. But.....hate speaker phones, since like CW said - you sound - well - horrible!
Or in a well! Muff short distances (like firetrucks - perfect) Earplugs - ugh!

So ET call home and tell me who is he talking to and how far away can they be?

Any of your scenerios could be correct. The engineer could be talking to someone on a portable handset a couple of cars away, to someone in the yard office on a base station a couple of miles away, or to the Dispatcher using a radio tower in Ft Worth. They could be talking about almost anything, depends on what they are doing.
Jeff

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffhergert

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ahem! Back to the question! If engineer is still in yard, uses telephone, who is he talking to, or how far is he calling? Is he talking to someone in the yard, setting up a coupling? Or is he checking with a dispatcher in Texas as to his leaving the yard?

Simple enough....

I personally wouldn't want to use a muff or an earpiece. Have used both and they drive me nuts. But.....hate speaker phones, since like CW said - you sound - well - horrible!
Or in a well! Muff short distances (like firetrucks - perfect) Earplugs - ugh!

So ET call home and tell me who is he talking to and how far away can they be?

Any of your scenerios could be correct. The engineer could be talking to someone on a portable handset a couple of cars away, to someone in the yard office on a base station a couple of miles away, or to the Dispatcher using a radio tower in Ft Worth. They could be talking about almost anything, depends on what they are doing.
Jeff

Thank you! Question answered....

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....A variation of your morning theme Jen....Looked at the NS passing track in west Muncie last evening as we came into town and found the typical cut of grain cars sitting there and for the last 2 days each [different], cut of cars has had 3 and 2 locomotives connected to them....This is different. Have not seen the power there with the grain cars before....No one in the locomotive cabs but could see the instrument panel was lit up.....and Jen, I'm still watching [just for the fun of it], for number 1807 engine you mentioned passing your way last week...None of these were it but were NS engines and we'll keep watching.

Since I see them on the weekends, by the time I get here, they could be long gone to and coming back again. But you can add to your list - saw a NS Dash 9 - 9683 on Saturday morning - heading south and maybe east after that. Love those ponies!

Jen

[dharmon]

All I know is that Mookie chick seems to get around........[}:)][;)]

[Overmod]

Another possible answer for la Mook -- reflecting the last half of the original question:

There may be advantages to using several types of radio on the same train. For example, it may be important to keep yard 'chatter' off a main dispatching channel (i.e. using separate systems with different freqs or effective ranges might be much more convenient for crews doing different things in the same general area). So you would have walkie-talkies for crew communication, use the 'train phone' to talk to the dispatcher or track crews out on the main where you're planning to go, and keep a speaker 'hot' so you can hear incoming messages easily when outside the cab... but the speaker will cut off when you pick up your handset.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Another possible answer for la Mook -- reflecting the last half of the original question:

There may be advantages to using several types of radio on the same train. For example, it may be important to keep yard 'chatter' off a main dispatching channel (i.e. using separate systems with different freqs or effective ranges might be much more convenient for crews doing different things in the same general area). So you would have walkie-talkies for crew communication, use the 'train phone' to talk to the dispatcher or track crews out on the main where you're planning to go, and keep a speaker 'hot' so you can hear incoming messages easily when outside the cab... but the speaker will cut off when you pick up your handset.

Ah Ha! My thinking at the time. That was the reason for the question - I was running through my mind (quiet, Dan!) that maybe there were separate radios for separate places. Radio for dispatcher, phone for yard master or however it is set up?

Anyone?

Mook

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie
[brI

was running through my mind (quiet, Dan!)

Mook

Did the sound of the foot steps echo?[:D]