Tuesday Tidbits!

[Mookie]

Went to my favorite spot on Sat - without the Driver - he wasn't back from fly fishing yet. Then in celebration of his return, had him take me there Sunday morning, too! Nice of me, don't you think!

Saw a total of 72 engines. Not trains, engines. Some on trains, some just out for a ride. (about 5 hours total both days)

Anyway - have some questions as usual.

1. Whisper cabs - with windows shut, just how quiet is it really? The bell bangs away when they go by us - can you hear it inside the cab? Can you hold a conversation and not yell (only if you want to?)

2. I think an engineer actually put together a coal train while we watched. They pulled forward and backed up 3 different times, then left town - same engineer. Now - how is he paid for this? I know the old engineer was paid by mileage, but what about the back and forth - how do they figure that out?

3. This same engineer, when he was backing up - was doing so on a slight curve and over a crossing. He kept leaning out the window and looking down at the ground. Then when he was straightened out, he just backed straight up. What was he looking at? (No not the mirror!) He made quite a point of watching the ground, like if he slipped off the track, he could run for the door?

Not a clue what he was watching or what he could do if if something happened - whatever if might be.....

But - this same nice engineer, stopped right in front of us so we could look at the engines very carefully - A Dash 8, and 2 Dash 9's. Whooping it up!

Reporterette/Foamette Mookie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Went to my favorite spot on Sat - without the Driver - he wasn't back from fly fishing yet. Then in celebration of his return, had him take me there Sunday morning, too! Nice of me, don't you think!

Saw a total of 72 engines. Not trains, engines. Some on trains, some just out for a ride. (about 5 hours total both days)

Anyway - have some questions as usual.

1. Whisper cabs - with windows shut, just how quiet is it really? The bell bangs away when they go by us - can you hear it inside the cab? Can you hold a conversation and not yell (only if you want to?)

2. I think an engineer actually put together a coal train while we watched. They pulled forward and backed up 3 different times, then left town - same engineer. Now - how is he paid for this? I know the old engineer was paid by mileage, but what about the back and forth - how do they figure that out?

3. This same engineer, when he was backing up - was doing so on a slight curve and over a crossing. He kept leaning out the window and looking down at the ground. Then when he was straightened out, he just backed straight up. What was he looking at? (No not the mirror!) He made quite a point of watching the ground, like if he slipped off the track, he could run for the door?

Not a clue what he was watching or what he could do if if something happened - whatever if might be.....

But - this same nice engineer, stopped right in front of us so we could look at the engines very carefully - A Dash 8, and 2 Dash 9's. Whooping it up!

Reporterette/Foamette Mookie

Mook-

Here are my answers.

1. The new widebodies are MUCH quieter than the older standard cabs. You can still hear the bell as a distant "ding,ding" instead of the older units "CLANG, CLANG".

2. This depends upon the agreement and what kind of service the engineer is in. Here there are four categories of service for pay purposes: 1) Yard; 2) Road; 3) Travelling Switcher (5 day) and 4) Travelling Switcher (6 day). There are also arbitraries that may apply such as more than three stops to switch on a road job around here will get the Engineer extra pay. Certain shove moves get conductors extra.

3. The Engineer was looking at the ground to determine his speed. Believe it or not, looking at the ground is much more accurate at low speeds than the speedometer. Always do it when coupling. Keeps the conductor much more friendly.

LC

[Mookie]

LC - are those traveling switchers what they used to call "Locals" - where you would pack your grip and be gone about 5 or 6 days at a time and switch all the local places between 2 points?

Speed determination - interesting - never thought about that - I just figured he was watching for pocket change by the crossing.

Add that all to my book of knowledge.

Thanx

Mookie

[coalminer3]

Sometimes, there will be certain locations or "marks" on the ground which the engineer uses to determine how much more he or she can back; at least that's the way it's done here on shifters. As LC says, it's not good to throw people or cars all over the place.
Couple loaded coal cars too hard and you have a "black snowstorm" plus an ungodly amount of noise.

work safe

[Anonymous]

Mook: Your tidbits are more like the opening course of a good meal: informative, well thought out with just the right amount of understated couriosity that hides an enthuziasm of a true student of the rails. As always a pleasure to read your more than ample tidbits

[Mookie]

PL - it's enough to turn a girl's head! I thank you for your kind words!

Mookie [:I]

[dharmon]

Mook,

It's the same thing as taxiing an aircraft. There are no speedometers for speed on the ground, so we use visual ques to determine speed. A not so hi-tech little secret.

[espeefoamer]

A couple of times I was allowed to operate a friends live steam locomotive[:)].To start ,I was told to look down at the ground,and keep opening the throttle until we started moving,then shut off then pull out slowly until I had reached the desired speed.This was an AWESOME experience[:p][:p][:p]!!!!!

[JoeKoh]

Mookie
I like to hear the guys in the yard sometimes while waiting for a mainline train.I wi***hey would bring back a gp38-2 it was the bulldog of the yard.
stay safe
Joe

[kenneo]

Like the guys said, speed and "marks".

A good conductor will be able to eyeball distances like he was using a tape measure (hard to do!!) and a good engineer will know how fast the ties go by so as not to exceed 4MPH and then use eye-balled marks on the ground to stop the cut just where the conductor/brakeman/switchman wants it stopped.

Both will have calculated the slack involved and a joint will be made with almost no noise. You could ride the car to the joint and almost not feel the coupling.

As to your question of the back and forthing, a road crew can usually double or tripple a train together without penalty provided the tracks involved were full to capacity. Only one of the tracks can not be full. So a 110 car tripple over with 40 car per track yard would have the rear and middle sections of the train in two separate tracks of 40 cars each and the head cut in a 40 car track with only 30 cars in it. He would couple into the 30, then over to the middle 40, and then double all 70 of those over to the last track with 40 in it. If the above is not the case, the cash register starts ringing for both the train crew and the engine crew if there are switchmen assigned to the yard.

Road switchers usually have the highest pay rate on a railroad because they do both road haul and switching. You will normally find the highest seniority on these jobs.

[Mookie]

Well, this just makes so much more sense than what I was imagining. He was really watching what looked to me to be the rail or the wheels, but now figure it was the ties! It looked like he was actually guiding the engine and needed to make sure he stayed on the tracks. A very interesting experience.

I have noticed more lately that they are bringing out part of a train and then backing it down different tracks like they are "collecting" the rest of the train. I just sense that they are running into a full yard that once was very big and now isn't so big. Trains coming into the yard often block the throat of the yard for a few minutes to take care of whatever business the head end has to do. When trains were a little shorter, they would always clear the crossing, but no more.

And just a bit of trivia for comment - saw an full coal train "resting" just before our crossing site - for about 15-20 min - which isn't unusual. Then the crew cab pulled up, stopped on the crossing and the conductor got out and walked over and got on the engine. Figure it must have been a PDQ call. Just adds to the flavor of my watch area!

Mookie

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I have noticed more lately that they are bringing out part of a train and then backing it down different tracks like they are "collecting" the rest of the train.

CSX regularly delivers 100 car blocks of coal to a local power plant, but there are no tracks capable of handling all 100 cars. Thus they must break the train down on delivery, and double, triple, or even quadruple it out when they pick up the empties. Raised cain with traffic for a little while.

QUOTE:
And just a bit of trivia for comment - saw an full coal train "resting" just before our crossing site - for about 15-20 min - which isn't unusual. Then the crew cab pulled up, stopped on the crossing and the conductor got out and walked over and got on the engine. Figure it must have been a PDQ call. Just adds to the flavor of my watch area!

Mookie

I heard the CSX DS send a train into siding the other day for a meet. He advised the crew going into the siding that he had called a cab to help them get back out again. I'm presuming that meant the cab would shuttle the conductor back to the loco after the switch at the siding was set back to normal. I think the train was around 55 cars, and they would have blocked several crossings while the conductor walked back to the head end.

[Mookie]

Tree - well, that would make sense too! The poor guy looked like he was already warm (it was a muggy, hot morning) and it would have been very taxing for anyone to walk a full coal train - so maybe they were just being practical and saving time as well!

Mook

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

LC - are those traveling switchers what they used to call "Locals" - where you would pack your grip and be gone about 5 or 6 days at a time and switch all the local places between 2 points?

Speed determination - interesting - never thought about that - I just figured he was watching for pocket change by the crossing.

Add that all to my book of knowledge.

Thanx

Mookie

Mook-

Yes and no. Yes locals are usually paid at the travelling switcher rate. There are exceptions. One local we used to have was paid as a yard job because you never got out on to the main track. You did have to switch several industrial tracks one of which was really a short branch line to a closed military depot that is now an industrial park a distance of nearly 10 miles. The "no" is that on the travelling switcher rates you aren't gone 5-6 days, you work 5 days or 6 days as posted in the job notice/bulletin.

LC

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

- I just figured he was watching for pocket change by the crossing.

<Conductor to Engineer> "Hey, what's the hold up up there?"
<Engineer (panting) to Conductor> "Just picked up 58 cents next to the crossing. Best take all day!"
<Conductor to Engineer> "Don't forget my share. Now, can we shove back 10 to a joint?"
[swg]

[zardoz]

Mook-

The 'watching of the ground' is essential when there is a need to judge slow speeds. If you notice on most locomotives, there is a light mounted on the frame just below the engineer's window illuminating the ground; that is so the engineer can see the ground at night. It is especially useful in the switch yard, where you might be operating on a track in the yard that has cars on each adjacent track.

One can use the sides of the adjacent cars as a reference point to determine speed; however, this can lead to some rough couplings and/or unrequested stopping if the engineer does not notice that the cars on an adjacent track begin to move. This can really throw off one's speed judgment. So when the groundpounder tells the hogger, "Three cars to the joint", and the hogger is on a track that has boxcars on an adjacent track, he might be tempted to use three cars on the adjacent track as his reference. But if those cars begin to move the same direction as the hogger, he will not begin to slow soon enough, and all of the sudden the groundpounder will start yelling STOP, then comes the crash. And stopping instantly at only 3 mph will launch you out of the seat.

If the adjacent cars begin moving in the opposite direction as the hogger, then he will judge his speed to be too fast and will slow down or stop too soon, with the groundpounder wondering just what the hell you are doing in the cab. Remember, all motion is relative. What your speed relates to determines how your brain processes it.

That is why we look at the ground, it does not usually move (except in California). Although watching the ground doesn't work too well after a fresh snowfall.

[Mookie]

This has been very enlightening!

Dad used to have to work the "local" many years ago - he would be gone 5-6 days and just do local switching between here and about 100 miles west of here. He hated that job, since he was gone from home for that amount of time. Hopefully they have changed it in the years since then.

Most of what I see is just a short cut of cars going in and out of the yard and they have lots of room to travel back and forth. They put the pedal to the metal and move right along. Plus they usually have a conductor on the last car with a radio. Just had never seen someone right in front of me moving a lot of cars just a short distance. But now that I think about it, he was on a phone at the time, too...

Tree - [:D]

Mook