Victrola1, thanks for your periodic updates on this subject. It will be interesting to see how long cash-strapped Illinois is able to sustain its end of this operation; also Chicago-Dubuque.
The Des Moines Register a while back, probably about the time Iowa had to decide to take the Federal funds or not, had a statement from Sen. McCoy about moving on. He knew that Iowa wasn't going to do anything for passenger rail.
It really isn't surprising when you think about it. They can't agree on how to adequately fund public highways or bridges, even when most seem to think they are necessary. There are some who don't want to pay for anything, even things they do use.
Jeff
Sad news, but in light of the current climate in Des Moines, not surprising. Having traveled in all 100 counties in Iowa, I find the state has an interesting provincialism going.
In Eastern Iowa people understand the ties to Chicago. Plenty of students from Chicago land at the University of Iowa. Folks there see the benefit of connecting with Chicago. So in Eastern Iowa, there is a real desire to have better communications to Chicago.
Go over to Des Moines and the focus is on Des Moines. It's the capital after all. All roads in Iowa lead to Des Moines. Tends to lead to a view that if something doesn't benefit Des Moines and central Iowa, then it's not good for the state. So since Amtrak in Iowa was initially only going to Iowa City, then who needs it?
Go over to Council Bluffs on the western edge of the state and many people there would just as soon be part of Nebraska. After all, many of them work over there anyway.
Eventually there will be passenger trains rolling across Iowa again, Omaha (maybe Lincoln) to Chicago. It will happen. Just maybe not right now, due to local shortsightedness. In a few years, I-80 will be even more congested. And for the passenger trains to the Quad Cities to start making a difference in that area.
And leadership in Des Moines will change…
If my home state of Iowa misses out on this opportunity to get passenger rail to Iowa City (and eventually Des Moines and Council Bluffs/Omaha) it will be an epic fail of monumental proportions and the blame will fall right into the lap of Governor Terry Branstad and the rest of the conservative cronies back home. It's an utter embarrassment that they can't find a creative solution to try and get this done.
Los Angeles Rams Guy If my home state of Iowa misses out on this opportunity to get passenger rail to Iowa City (and eventually Des Moines and Council Bluffs/Omaha) it will be an epic fail of monumental proportions and the blame will fall right into the lap of Governor Terry Branstad and the rest of the conservative cronies back home. It's an utter embarrassment that they can't find a creative solution to try and get this done.
Conservative and Creative - isn't the among the ultimate of oxymorons?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Seige mentality. Hold on to whatever you have; don't invest because you fear change and the future..
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Would it be a creative solution if say the Iowa state legislator got California to pay for or they find out who is in favor of it and bill them for it. I guess Iowa's government waste account is empty.
You out-of-state crybabies need to listen to yourselves. $79 million to extend passenger rail 58 miles from Moline to Iowa City? Before the annual subsidy -- conservatively put at $3 million -- kicks in?
For the greater good of how many Iowa taxpayers?
Iowa City already has interstate, bus and (25 miles away) air. The Rocket wouldn't likely stop at any of the small communities between I.C. and Davenport. For Davenport-area residents, the train would be available just across the river.
Sure, a few people might dribble down to the station from Cedar Rapids, but otherwise?
People who see Chicago college students as a mainstay are kidding themselves. These are like other U of I students, going home at Christmas and spring break. Ask the old Rock Island railroad how well that fueled the original Rockets.
schlimm Seige mentality. Hold on to whatever you have; don't invest because you fear change and the future..
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade.
Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood.
Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
Sounds like bringing back the Waterloo, Cedar Falls and Northern merged with the Crandic...
Semper Vaporo We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade. Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood. Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
Semper VaporoWe are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade.
I recall a presentation by FBI and DEA agents who indicated meth labs were more common in rural areas, run by locals. Isolation but with good Interstate access are key elements. But for folks with your attitude, maybe you can ban traffic from Illinois.
Semper Vaporo Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood.
A tactic used by virtually every local news cast - we don't grow our own criminals, they come from the Big City (fill in the blank). Criminals, like manure are everywhere!
Murphy Siding Semper Vaporo We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade. Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood. Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west. I think I just had a flashback to the train scene in the The Music Man.
Now ya got it!
That logic has been used before. I know I've seen it used by at least some counties surrounding Chicago when it came time to expand commuter rail across a county border (and of course have the new county share in paying for it).
Just a couple of problems:
If the headlines already state that (almost) all criminals in Eastern Iowa come from Chicago, I don't think adding passenger rail will change anything about that. Apparently they already know how to get to Iowa's pristine corn fields. So if you want to solve that problem, not only turn down passenger rail, but cut all the bridges across the Mississippi for any kind of road traffic, cancel all flights from Chicago to Iowa and get the Iowa Coast Guard to patrol the river for folks trying to use speedboats to get across.
Second, the increase in meth labs in the Iowa countryside goes back at least to the farm crisis in the '80s. Back then when driving around Iowa, if there was any issue with the car, all you had to do was walk to the nearest farm house and the friendly inhabitants would help you. But lots of folks who used to live on farms don't any more, or work in town and as a result of population changes one now has a higher likelihood of running into either empty dwellings or ones occupied by folks to are involved in clandestine operations. That's not to say there aren't still friendly people in the Iowa countryside. Just that things have changed, as things have changed in rural areas all across the US in recent decades.
Now I do like the idea of light rail for the corridor Cedar Falls/Waterloo-Cedar Rapids-Iowa City. But that's a different thing than passenger rail on the Quad Cities-Iowa City-Des Moines-Omaha line. All very much needed. And in the current political climate in Iowa, not so likely to happen. If Gov. B and his folks don't want to pay (relatively) peanuts for passenger rail to Iowa City in the next 2 years, I don't see them wanting to pay much more (with no Federal funding) for light rail inside the state, especially if it doesn't include Des Moines.
I'm guessing I'm included in the "out of state" category since I don't make any secret of the fact that I don't currently live in the great state of Iowa. Would love to move my business there some day. And access to passenger rail will have an impact on that decision. Maybe it will sway it and we'll land in Illinois…
I do see that there is widespread support in Eastern Iowa for passenger rail to Iowa City, including in the business community. The point is, they realize that the crowded I-80 isn't the end-all for transportation. Neither is Greyhound or Megabus. Flying in and out of Cedar Rapids is what it is. When I lived in Iowa City, I only went there to pick up or drop off somebody once or twice. Much more likely scenario was to drive to O'Hare to pick up or drop off. It's a regional airport after all
College students: run by the dorms on any given friday afternoon and watch the exodus for the weekend. Those students do not just stay put all semester long. As for how well it worked for the Rock Island's passenger trains, that is historical data. Passenger rail all across the US was dying in the 60's. Has no real bearing on what today's or tomorrow's traveling public will need. Back then car driving was increasing every year. Now it's going down. It's a different world.
Anyone else chuckling at the irony of the Chicago boogie men not patronizing this proposed passenger train, preferring to use more flexible automobiles driving on subsidized roads instead?(Sorry man- the made me do it.)
CJtrainguyCollege students: run by the dorms on any given friday afternoon and watch the exodus for the weekend. Those students do not just stay put all semester long. As for how well it worked for the Rock Island's passenger trains, that is historical data. Passenger rail all across the US was dying in the 60's. Has no real bearing on what today's or tomorrow's traveling public will need. Back then car driving was increasing every year. Now it's going down. It's a different world.
As far as college students and transportation goes, check out UI in Urbaba on a Thursday or Friday; many students head back to the Chicago area by car, many by bus. Even in the 1960's as passenger rail declined, a lot of UI students (also EIU and SIU) took one of the IC's regularly scheduled trains north on Friday, and at break time, might have taken one of the student special consists of old heavyweight cars. Believe me, they were packed. If Amtrak ran more convenient trains (now they leave at 6:10 am, 10:14 am and 7:59 pm), they would be better patronized as well. Given the large number of Iowa City students from metro Chicago, the service would be used if the schedules were convenient for that market.
dakotafred You out-of-state crybabies need to listen to yourselves. $79 million to extend passenger rail 58 miles from Moline to Iowa City? Before the annual subsidy -- conservatively put at $3 million -- kicks in? For the greater good of how many Iowa taxpayers? Iowa City already has interstate, bus and (25 miles away) air. The Rocket wouldn't likely stop at any of the small communities between I.C. and Davenport. For Davenport-area residents, the train would be available just across the river. Sure, a few people might dribble down to the station from Cedar Rapids, but otherwise? People who see Chicago college students as a mainstay are kidding themselves. These are like other U of I students, going home at Christmas and spring break. Ask the old Rock Island railroad how well that fueled the original Rockets.
DakotaFred - You need to stop living in the 1950's and step into today's real world. Too many people back in my home state of Iowa haven't yet.
Los Angeles Rams Guy DakotaFred - You need to stop living in the 1950's and step into today's real world. Too many people back in my home state of Iowa haven't yet.
Yah, LA, but as long as we're updating, don't forget Megabus, which takes a real interest in Iowa City to Chicago and has that run covered like a blanket. (Check out their website.)
Another big change from the '60s, when I was at U of I: student cars. I had many Chicago friends in those days, not one of whom had "wheels". Now, if they're like college students everywhere else, many will have those -- with which to furnish rides to their carless friends as well as themselves.
I realize somebody would ride a train between Iowa City and Chicago ... little old ladies, railroad nuts like ourselves. But why should anybody else -- particularly since the accommodations will bear more resemblance to a bus than a passenger train?
I find it ironic that some of the same posters -- I do not include you -- who regularly beat up on LD passenger as an economic loser are so keen to inflict such an unpromising "corridor" on Iowans.
dakotafred I find it ironic that some of the same posters -- I do not include you -- who regularly beat up on LD passenger as an economic loser are so keen to inflict such an unpromising "corridor" on Iowans.
What's unpromising about a corridor (Lincoln-)Omaha-Des Moines-Iowa City-Quad Cities-Chicago? The population is there. The traffic is there. The business community wants it — because they see the value improved communications will have for the area. The passenger service itself may require an operating subsidy, but its presence will have a positive effect on the communities, ultimately bringing a net gain for Iowa.
For that matter, the California Zephyr goes through southern Iowa 2x daily, at less than optimal times. Even so, go talk to the mayors and leaders in the communities where it stops and see if they want to get rid of the train. The do not, because they recognize the value it does bring to their communities.
dakotafredPeople who see Chicago college students as a mainstay are kidding themselves. These are like other U of I students, going home at Christmas and spring break. Ask the old Rock Island railroad how well that fueled the original Rockets.
First you suggested UI students only go home at Christmas and breaks. The you reveal you were at Urbana in the 60's when no one you knew (but apparently others) had cars. I was there in the 1960's, too, sometimes with a car, other times not. Then as now, parking is the problem. And back then, students went up to Chicago mostly at break time.
50 years later. Students go to Chicago many weekends, sometimes with cars, sometimes by bus and some by train. The Illini/Saluki service runs two trains each way daily, Carbondale (SIU)-Chicago. In 2012, there were 156,158 boardings/alightings at the Champaign station for those 4 trains (not counting the City of New Orleans. That is 428 people per day. Most (88%) of those passengers are riding to Chicago or Homewood, and not many are elderly and/or trainfans. Fridays and Sundays the numbers are higher. The numbers would be higher if there were an early/midafternoon Champaign departure.
You are right, I am not a supporter of LD service as currently setup because most of the trains serve so few. Champaign alone has 40-50% as many riders as many LD trains have in an entire year. try looking at the link blue streak posted to NARP staistics. It is very revealing. The key to serving the public is convenience and speed. If Omaha to Chicago had a train running at a convenient time, serving Iowa population centers on the way, rather than southern Iowa as the CZ does, it could also have high ridership numbers.
CJtrainguy dakotafred I find it ironic that some of the same posters -- I do not include you -- who regularly beat up on LD passenger as an economic loser are so keen to inflict such an unpromising "corridor" on Iowans. What's unpromising about a corridor (Lincoln-)Omaha-Des Moines-Iowa City-Quad Cities-Chicago? The population is there. The traffic is there. The business community wants it — because they see the value improved communications will have for the area. The passenger service itself may require an operating subsidy, but its presence will have a positive effect on the communities, ultimately bringing a net gain for Iowa. For that matter, the California Zephyr goes through southern Iowa 2x daily, at less than optimal times. Even so, go talk to the mayors and leaders in the communities where it stops and see if they want to get rid of the train. The do not, because they recognize the value it does bring to their communities.
What's unpromising?
First, take note that you have, on your own, extended the experiment all the way to Omaha (and maybe Lincoln). God, there are a lot of empty miles between Iowa City and Omaha, interrupted by only Des Moines. SLOW miles -- even after you've upgraded the Iowa Interstate, at great expense, to a top speed of 79 mph.
The subject under discussion is Iowa City-Chicago. The objections become more punishing as you move west. Name me a traveler with reasonable business to transact who would choose the train between Omaha and Chicago.
You'd get, for the most part, the same retired people and other vacationers who ride LD trains like the California Zephyr, so out of favor with many posters.
Iowa Republicans are too canny to sign that blank check. They don't deserve to be criticized by the same people who don't like the CZ and other LD trains.
I like those LD trains well and have always stood up for them. But they are a national choice, bankrolled with national dollars, serving a national purpose. I don't see the same rationale for the "Corn Belt Rocket."
dakotafred People who see Chicago college students as a mainstay are kidding themselves. These are like other U of I students, going home at Christmas and spring break. Ask the old Rock Island railroad how well that fueled the original Rockets. First you suggested UI students only go home at Christmas and breaks. The you reveal you were at Urbana in the 60's when no one you knew (but apparently others) had cars. I was there in the 1960's, too, sometimes with a car, other times not. Then as now, parking is the problem. And back then, students went up to Chicago mostly at break time.
C'mon, Schlimm, we're talking Iowa City and the University of Iowa ("U of I"), not Urbana.
dakotafred First, take note that you have, on your own, extended the experiment all the way to Omaha (and maybe Lincoln). … The subject under discussion is Iowa City-Chicago. The objections become more punishing as you move west. Name me a traveler with reasonable business to transact who would choose the train between Omaha and Chicago. … Iowa Republicans are too canny to sign that blank check. They don't deserve to be criticized by the same people who don't like the CZ and other LD trains. I like those LD trains well and have always stood up for them. But they are a national choice, bankrolled with national dollars, serving a national purpose. I don't see the same rationale for the "Corn Belt Rocket."
First, take note that you have, on your own, extended the experiment all the way to Omaha (and maybe Lincoln). …
…
I didn't "on my own extend the experiment": The Iowa DOT is studying the entire corridor across Iowa, having landed on the IAIS as the logical alignment. Read the reports on the IDOT website.
Illinois is committed to Chicago-Quad Cities. The first step in Iowa was to extend the passenger service to Iowa City, to better server Eastern Iowa. The next step is to extend to Des Moines. The next step is to extend to Omaha/Council Bluffs. All outlined at the IDOT website. The decision makers in Des Moines are well aware of those stages and maybe that affects the opposition to the Iowa City segment, maybe not.
I will make no further comments about Iowa Republicans and their alleged canniness. History will bear out who was canny and who was not when we look back some years from now.
I fully understand that you don't see a purpose for passenger service in Iowa. Again, lots of people do, including many in the business community in Eastern Iowa. Apparently they do believe that passenger rail will be valuable in attracting new companies to the area/getting existing ones to expand. Probably means they don't think the only people who will ride the trains are the elderly, infirm, and Chicago latter day Al Capones.
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: 44,500 students
University of Iowa at Iowa City: 31,000 students.
Both referred to as U of I, so be careful of the context.
Yes, Iowa is smaller, but not exactly podunkville. It can definitely contribute to the success of passenger service to Iowa City.
CJtrainguy dakotafred First, take note that you have, on your own, extended the experiment all the way to Omaha (and maybe Lincoln). … The subject under discussion is Iowa City-Chicago. The objections become more punishing as you move west. Name me a traveler with reasonable business to transact who would choose the train between Omaha and Chicago. … Iowa Republicans are too canny to sign that blank check. They don't deserve to be criticized by the same people who don't like the CZ and other LD trains. I like those LD trains well and have always stood up for them. But they are a national choice, bankrolled with national dollars, serving a national purpose. I don't see the same rationale for the "Corn Belt Rocket." I didn't "on my own extend the experiment": The Iowa DOT is studying the entire corridor across Iowa, having landed on the IAIS as the logical alignment. Read the reports on the IDOT website. Illinois is committed to Chicago-Quad Cities. The first step in Iowa was to extend the passenger service to Iowa City, to better server Eastern Iowa. The next step is to extend to Des Moines. The next step is to extend to Omaha/Council Bluffs. All outlined at the IDOT website. The decision makers in Des Moines are well aware of those stages and maybe that affects the opposition to the Iowa City segment, maybe not. I will make no further comments about Iowa Republicans and their alleged canniness. History will bear out who was canny and who was not when we look back some years from now. I fully understand that you don't see a purpose for passenger service in Iowa. Again, lots of people do, including many in the business community in Eastern Iowa. Apparently they do believe that passenger rail will be valuable in attracting new companies to the area/getting existing ones to expand. Probably means they don't think the only people who will ride the trains are the elderly, infirm, and Chicago latter day Al Capones.
I know all about the Iowa DOT dream sheet, supported by an Omaha consultant, Mark Hemphill, who would have laughed it off the pages of Trains, when he was getting paid by Kalmbach instead of by his Omaha outfit. The consultant also took a serious look at the old Illinois Central route!
The fact is, we're talking Moline-Iowa City, to start. We've got to swallow that camel before we can move on to more ridiculous yet.
CJtrainguy University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: 44,500 students University of Iowa at Iowa City: 31,000 students. Both referred to as U of I, so be careful of the context.
Be careful of the context, yourself (you and Schlimm). Again, the subject was -- to anybody paying attention -- Iowa City.
dakotafredC'mon, Schlimm, we're talking Iowa City and the University of Iowa ("U of I"), not Urbana.
OK, I misinterpreted you. Not the first time. At least Indiana is IU. But my points and statistics are still quite relevant to to Uni Iowa situation.
A train running Omaha to Chicago on a day schedule could attract many students, especially if the stops at tiny towns enroute were not part of the plan and college towns are served.. The Illini trains should eliminate several stops berween CHA and CHI. Another IDOT train service runs to Quincy and Macomb, serving WIU and Knox. Total passenger count is 224,000. Macomb has boardings/alightings of 75,000, Quincy 49,372 and galesburg (this service only) another 55,000.
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