More B&O CPL's bite the dust

[Anonymous]

At 9:00 this morning, the signal system was suspended on the Old Main Line Sub from Frederick Jct. to Halethorpe [Baltimore 'burbs]. They have started the work removing B&O's Color Position Light signals and replacing them with Sneeze Board cheep's. I understand a big road needs to reduce the signal systems just to bring some sanity to the parts needed. I also understand B&O CPL's are supposed to be expensive to maintain...but DANG! You could see a CPL from a great distance; they were great to work with. I don't know about the cheeps.

It's really ironic...we will have some foreign signals, while Amtrak has replaced the old PRR Position signals with COLOR POSITIONS! The old B&O men would be spinning like lathes! [The old PRR guys would just look with slack-jawed wonderment, trying to figure out what happened...]

[Anonymous]

Shame...

LC

[MP57313]

I recall seeing some recently cut-up signals when I was at Point of Rocks a couple years ago. Sad to see them disappear...I believe CPLs were only in the midwest/east coast?

[JoeKoh]

They still have them on the north south Toledo sub here in Ohio.Especially in Deshler.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

I recall seeing some recently cut-up signals when I was at Point of Rocks a couple years ago. Sad to see them disappear...I believe CPLs were only in the midwest/east coast?

CPL's were designed and patented by the B&O RR; thus they were unique to former B&O lines. PRR used position lights which used the same quadrant designations, but were all yellow in color. Those same ex-PRR lights near Washington now have their yellow lights replaced with color in the old B&O pattern.

[asciibaron]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets
CPL's were designed and patented by the B&O RR; thus they were unique to former B&O lines. PRR used position lights which used the same quadrant designations, but were all yellow in color. Those same ex-PRR lights near Washington now have their yellow lights replaced with color in the old B&O pattern.

not exactly true - the only place the that the PRR used the all yellow position lights was on the NEC. elsewhere, they used colored position lights much like the B&O's.

-steve

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: not exactly true - the only place the that the PRR used the all yellow position lights was on the NEC. elsewhere, they used colored position lights much like the B&O's.

Actually you are the one who is incorrect. Except for a test installation at OVERBROOK interlocking in the 50's with red lenses, the PRR did not use any colour in it's position lights. In the PC/CR era red filters were installed in the STOP position at home signals on most lines.

QUOTE: It's really ironic...we will have some foreign signals, while Amtrak has replaced the old PRR Position signals with COLOR POSITIONS! The old B&O men would be spinning like lathes!

People need to understand that the Amtrak ColourIZED position lights have almost NOTHING in common with the B&O Colour Position system. The PRR system is a direct mapping from a standard 2-head colour light system just replacing colours with amber (later colourized) bars. The B&O Colour Position system is just that, it is a PURE position system that also employs colour.

The B&O CPL system is the most theoretically advanced wayside signaling system on the planet. The central head defines a plane from which the position of any of the 6 orbitals can be easily ascertained. The color provides your block occupancy information. Green = 2 clear blocks, Yellow = 1 clear block and Red/Lunar = 0 clear blocks. Unlike colour light or the PRR system you never see colour combinations like Y/G/R or R/G. Because a B&O CPL lacks the concept of multiple "heads", if you see Red AT ALL you have 0 clear blocks...if you see green AT ALL you have two clear blocks etc. The twin large lamps not only just define a plane, but are visible from a great distance. Finally, both dwarf and high signal aspects are the same further eliminating confusion.

With advanced in LED technology a modern B&O CPL wouldn't cost much more to operate than a darth vader signal. In fact, for a simple crossover the new signals have 8 lamps (g/y/r g/y/r y/r), which is the same number you would have for a B&O CPL. CSX is sacrificing safety so that it can save a few pennies. You should all write your elected officials and encourage legislation that mandates colour confusion safe signals at interlockings.

[Anonymous]

Im making sure to get as many shots here in brunswick as I can with the CPL along the side. Went to point of rocks and noticed how *cough*ugly*cough* interesting the new signals look (And they are clear for a fair distance it seems, don't know how long though). CSX just wants to get rid of all signs of B&O, thats all I think it is.

[csxengineer98]

your forgetting about the pilot lights on the signal..... the postion..color and if its flashing or not on a B&O CPL tells you alot more then clear..apporch..and restricting...the pilot lights tell you meidum clear..limited clear.. and so on and on and on......
the colored lights make it very nice becouse even if a blub is burned out..you still know what type of signal you have by the color as well as the postion of the light on the round face...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainheartedguy

Im making sure to get as many shots here in brunswick as I can with the CPL along the side. Went to point of rocks and noticed how *cough*ugly*cough* interesting the new signals look (And they are clear for a fair distance it seems, don't know how long though). CSX just wants to get rid of all signs of B&O, thats all I think it is.

they want ride of them becouse of one thing...COST.... it costs more to maintain them... and to replace them with a new CPL when it is so far gone and needs to be replaced outright..i was told by a signalman that it costs 5 times as much to replace a CPL with a new CPL then it dose to just put up a multilight signal...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

They still have them on the north south Toledo sub here in Ohio.Especially in Deshler.
stay safe
Joe

Unfortunately those signals are going fast.Hamilton,Sidney & Dayton are all getting
new "hood" signals.I'm sad to see them go too.CSX,as other roads,seems to be forgetting the great histories from which it sprang from.And all that to save a few pennies.Just not right to me.For my first post,thanks for letting me throw my [2c]

[mvlandsw]

Getting those pilot lights to light at the proper time is probably the biggest expense with all the relays and wiring involved. I've done some models of both types and the color light version is much easier - especially where routings through interlockings are involved

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mvlandsw

Getting those pilot lights to light at the proper time is probably the biggest expense with all the relays and wiring involved. I've done some models of both types and the color light version is much easier - especially where routings through interlockings are involved

now you see where the cost is.... model rail road signal systems arent much differnt then the real thing...the componints are smaller..but the prinsables are still the same!!! and you just said so yourself..that is why the CPLs are going BYE BYE!!! ....
csx engineer

[Modelcar]

...In the past when I would stop by the old "Pennsylvania RR Station" in Johnstown, Pa., and go up on the platform....one could see the Pennsy Position lights out in the distance in both directions...Same with Latrobe, Pa., [both on old Pennsy main line], more Position lights.....Not just over on the NEC...

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shadow1

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

They still have them on the north south Toledo sub here in Ohio.Especially in Deshler.
stay safe
Joe

Unfortunately those signals are going fast.Hamilton,Sidney & Dayton are all getting
new "hood" signals.I'm sad to see them go too.CSX,as other roads,seems to be forgetting the great histories from which it sprang from.And all that to save a few pennies.Just not right to me.For my first post,thanks for letting me throw my [2c]

Are the new signals,the in-line color lights,or are they tri-pattern?

[Anonymous]

For Locomutt:
They are in-line color lights with the black sheath over them.Most are attached
to their own shed and as of yet,I havn't seen any on cantilevers.I have a picture of
a signal crew installing a set of these at Corbin yard also.If I figure out how I'll
put it up.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shadow1

For Locomutt:
They are in-line color lights with the black sheath over them.Most are attached
to their own shed and as of yet,I havn't seen any on cantilevers.I have a picture of
a signal crew installing a set of these at Corbin yard also.If I figure out how I'll
put it up.

Thank you sir,as I was not really sure as to what they were using.
Uh,still red on top?

[CShaveRR]

No, most railroads put the green on top. Good ol' C&O had red on top of certain signals in the display, and green on others--confusing unless you knew what you were looking at.

Now, everybody's going for the standard color-light signals (green on top) with the "Darth Vader" hoods covering everything. CSX put them in when they rebuilt the B&O main line to Chicago. BNSF is replacing at least some of the searchlight signals on the Racetrack with these things. And on our own ex-CNW line, the ones with the hoods are courtesy of UP (which has used them for a long time), after they took us over.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

No, most railroads put the green on top. Good ol' C&O had red on top of certain signals in the display, and green on others--confusing unless you knew what you were looking at.

Now, everybody's going for the standard color-light signals (green on top) with the "Darth Vader" hoods covering everything. CSX put them in when they rebuilt the B&O main line to Chicago. BNSF is replacing at least some of the searchlight signals on the Racetrack with these things. And on our own ex-CNW line, the ones with the hoods are courtesy of UP (which has used them for a long time), after they took us over.

Thanks Carl,
Had a guy n the Nat, Guard,that was color blind. He got a ticket for running a red light;
in a small city, in Ky. The old siginals had red on top,and green on bottom,at the same time. He remembered the position,buit not the colors. So go figure.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify...Most of the "hoods" haven't been turned or activated around here.They
are in use in Sydney OH. but are not governing movement in Dayton or further south
as of yet...probably because of the city being a bottleneck of traffic.(that being redundant
since CSX is a bottleneck everywhere)[;)] I guess they are waiting to switch us over at the
last. I've seen the lights after dark on the rebuilt B&O Chicago and they were bright then.

[Anonymous]

When I came on board with Amtrak, are position lights were the all amber lens variety. But, since we've gone to color position, I like them better because from a distance, even in day light, I know what the signal aspect is. This was something that couldn't be done with the original PRR signals. It's nice to know which way traffic is set if we happen to be working out on the tracks that has a view of the signals. We're signaled for bi-direction train moves (rule 261) and knowing the direction traffic is set does help you. Especially, when the trains are breezing by you at 125mph. You may have a north bound train go by you on #2 track (which is how most of the trains travel on #2 track), then, see the signal is now displaying a clear for a south move. And, as was stated on an earlier post, the train's engineer definitely knows what signal aspect he/she is looking at from a longer distance with the color position signals.

[Anonymous]

We still have a few Pennsy position lights on the old PRR main as it approaches Union Station here in Chicago, most notably on the line as it parallels I-90 (you can see them from the expressway). But those, as I understand, are on their last legs as well. [:(] I have gotten a lot of shots of them so that I can show my kids the signals as they used to be. One of my personal favorite photos is the one I got of the old C&NW semaphores before they took those down.
.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I do hate to see the past signals disappear, too. The color positions do have their advantages, but, I'd like to see some of our old style PRR signals stay lit somewhere! Bowie, Md keeps, I believe, is a Caution signal lit steady with the old PRR type signal at the High Bridge Rd crossing on the Pope's Creek Branch. The old Bowie Tower is now a museum and open to the public that sits right on the high speed mainline of Amtrak.

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets
removing B&O's Color Position Light signals and replacing them

Went by Point of Rocks on Sunday. The remnants of CPLs are still there, near the storage trailers, along the "old" alignment of the wye track (before it was rebuilt for MARC Frederick service).