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Epic fail....Too kinky

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Epic fail....Too kinky
Posted by Soo 6604 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:14 AM

What would cause this extreame case of sun kinks? I've seen couple of hard sun kinks but I think this is the worse case. Triple main in Nebraska somewhere (Not my pictures (Photographer unknown to me))

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:31 AM

I don't know, but I wonder if it had something to do with the temperature of the rail when it was installed.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:06 AM

Not a problem...the Centennial unit would straighten that stuff right out!  Wink

Carl

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:18 AM

There is a roadmaster (MTM) and a Division Engineer (MTP) that got roasted over this. You don't lay rail in near freezing temps without compensating the ambient temp of the rail, getting the rail somewhere near the target temperature and then carefully watching it for months. Very sloppy.

(Cannot repeat on this forum the comments from an old boss of mine. Mooks saw them - never saw cat fur turn blush red before.)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:33 AM

As CWR is laid in a cool environment, it is supposed to be heated to the "mean" temperature of the location.  They apparently did not do this in this instance.

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Posted by Boyd on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:32 PM

1. Could an engine actually go down that track?

2. Could they straighten the track and continue to use it or is some of the rail bent too sharp?

I remember once setting up Lionel 027 track curve sections with curves being L, R, L, R, L, R etc. The engine did make it down the track.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Georgia Railroader on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:38 PM

Boyd

1. Could an engine actually go down that track?

2. Could they straighten the track and continue to use it or is some of the rail bent too sharp?

I remember once setting up Lionel 027 track curve sections with curves being L, R, L, R, L, R etc. The engine did make it down the track.

Yea, but it wouldn't go very far.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:01 PM

Is this for real ?!?  I too have never seen one - or as many - that bad, or as closely together, etc.  Even crunching the numbers I have a hard time believing it -  for a 100 deg. change/ increase in temperature, 100 ft. of rail will expand only 0.78 inch = 25/32" (= 100 deg. x 0.0000065 in. / in.-deg. x 100 ft. x 12 in./ ft.).  While the  internal forces are tremendous, that looks like a lot more 'throw' than what is needed to relieve just 3/4" of expansion motion or 'strain' . . . EDIT: . . . but, no - to relieve that motion completely would require the track to displace sideways about 3.6 ft. every 100 ft., which is about what it looks like, while allowing a little bit for some residual friction from the ballast and unreleased forces and motion, etc.   

From the sharpness and even spacing of the kinks, it looks more like someone was attempting to shift the track sideways a few feet to a new alignment or location, but using just the bucket of a tracked excavator ("hoe") or similar piece of equipment.  But I also can't conceive of who would approve doing that here, either. 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:13 PM

Yes, the rail could be straightened--you're looking at a telephoto-distorted shot.

MC, I never heard about this (probably with good reason!).  When would you say these pictures were taken?  It must have been relatively soon after the track was (re)constructed (I say reconstructed because even the tracks that had existed prior to addition of the third main line got concrete ties and a shift to wider track centers).  Somebody's careless decision (you don't chalk this up to ignorance) or willingness to take a shortcut cost the railroad a lot of money.  I hope he was appropriately rewarded for his efforts.

Carl

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Posted by jeaton on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:31 PM

Fearing a limited future for freight railroading, a major Class 1 railroad entered a joint venture with Six Flags Entertainment Corp's Six Flags Over Omaha to develop and test new theme park rides designed around track with steel rails at 4' 8.5" (ID).

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by Soo 6604 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:36 PM

The original email that was sent out was on June 11th and was titled "North Platte area this past weekend". My Dads friend was the orignal recepient.

Maybe this is a new concept to counter "hunting" trucks???

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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:07 PM

Doesn't look too much different than the C&NW Wisconsin Division main line in the '70s.

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Posted by steve14 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:01 PM

The ways this can happen? Here is one possible recipe. There are many variations to this basic theme.

First, lay the rail "cold". That is well below the desired neutral temperature for this area, which is probably about 105 degrees or so.

Next, run a surfacing crew through it at night when the temperatures are in the 40's or 50's

Start running trains wihtout adequately compacting the ballast section. (Perhaps their dynamic track stabilizer was broken down)

Then, have a nice sunny, clear day with air temperatures reaching into the 90's

There you wil have rail temperatures pushing 140 degrees and the large temperature swing from night to day (100 degrees or so) plus loosening the ballst interlock around the ties and that rail is going to go somewhere.

The forces involved in the thermal expansion of rail amount to about 2670# per degree of temperature change (Change in force = end area of the rail x 200 x change in temperature) so for 136# rail the end area is 13.35 sq in, 200 is a thermal force constant and the temperature change is 100 or 267,000 pounds increase in the force in the rail for a 100 degree change.

All of that change has to be held back by the track structure.

 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:26 PM

zardoz

Doesn't look too much different than the C&NW Wisconsin Division main line in the '70s.

 

Aww, come on, Jim!  There are lots of differences...concrete ties, welded rail, white ballast, good cross level, rails staying at standard gauge...

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 6:59 PM

jeaton

Fearing a limited future for freight railroading, a major Class 1 railroad entered a joint venture with Six Flags Entertainment Corp's Six Flags Over Omaha to develop and test new theme park rides designed around track with steel rails at 4' 8.5" (ID).

Does this Class as MOW Humor???

 

 


 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:15 PM

Not an expert on this by any means, but I thought continuous welded rail had to be laid in the summer, so the rail would be hot and at it's max expansion.  This of course wouldn't apply to emergency repairs and such.

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Posted by rrboomer on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:20 PM

When I first saw this, I wondered if one or more of their 135+ car coal train had a UDE in this area earlier in the day.

UP has been laying and maintaining ribbon rail in all different climates for a long time, let's cut them a little slack. By any chance did a private contractor lay this new main for UP?

rrb

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:21 PM

jeaton
  Fearing a limited future for freight railroading, a major Class 1 railroad entered a joint venture with Six Flags Entertainment Corp's Six Flags Over Omaha to develop and test new theme park rides designed around track with steel rails at 4' 8.5" (ID).

  Laugh  Thumbs Up  A horizontal roller coaster !

CShaveRR
 zardoz: Doesn't look too much different than the C&NW Wisconsin Division main line in the '70s.

 

 Aww, come on, Jim!  There are lots of differences...concrete ties, welded rail, white ballast, good cross level, rails staying at standard gauge...

. . . except for the alignment, that is . . . . Whistling

Perhaps the "appropriate reward" that Carl suggested above would have been a fast trip down that track in a motor car/ speeder or a hi-rail truck after too much of a greasy lunch  . . . Ick!

- Paul North.  

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:35 PM

You know, these photos remind me of the "MISTAKES" Demotivational poster, at: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html 

"It Could Be that the Purpose of Your Life Is Only to Serve as a Warning to Others."

I'd sure like to see and have a video clip of those kinks happening in 'real time' - from a safe distance, of course . . . .  Smile, Wink & Grin

Thanks for sharing these, Soo 6604 !

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:30 PM

CShaveRR

 zardoz:

Doesn't look too much different than the C&NW Wisconsin Division main line in the '70s.

 

Aww, come on, Jim!  There are lots of differences...concrete ties, welded rail, white ballast, good cross level, rails staying at standard gauge...

When I was formatting the quoted reply in my tiny little brain, I was going to start out with a disclaimer for all the things you mentioned.  But a few seconds later, when it came time to type my reply, those words never made it out.

I caught the "standard gauge" joke--very good!

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Posted by silicon212 on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:23 PM

Nobody's thought of the obvious here ...

It's the new Railroad Slalom Course!  It's to be used to test the handling capability of the best EMDs and GEs.

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Posted by Boyd on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:37 AM

This is the track for all new loaded coal trains to help the coal settle in  tighter together.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Yardmaster01 on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:38 AM

Obviously a steering test track.  You guys think locomotive steering wheels test themselves?!

                                                                                                                   Pat.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:24 AM

Did the man responsible for this bad job of tracklaying have to relay it all by himself?Smile

Johnny

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Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:15 AM

Too kinky?  Not possible.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:52 AM

zardoz

Too kinky?  Not possible.

Visions of Harvey Korman's ghost in Blazing Saddles?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:24 PM

mudchicken

 

 zardoz:

 

Too kinky?  Not possible.

 

Visions of Harvey Korman's ghost in Blazing Saddles?

 

Stampeding cattle?  That's not much of a crime.

(slight paraphrase of half the exchange.)

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:39 PM

 

MOW Foreman, "Dispatcher, I'm going to need some track and time on track 3, over"

Dispatcher, "Well, traffic is heavy today.  The westbound shooter is called at Global 1 and the eastbound shooter is just leaving Lathrop.  I could probably give you 5 minutes a week from next Tuesday if that would work, over."

Jeff

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:55 PM

MofW Foreman to Dispatcher - #3 track is Out of Service. Out!

jeffhergert

 

MOW Foreman, "Dispatcher, I'm going to need some track and time on track 3, over"

Dispatcher, "Well, traffic is heavy today.  The westbound shooter is called at Global 1 and the eastbound shooter is just leaving Lathrop.  I could probably give you 5 minutes a week from next Tuesday if that would work, over."

Jeff

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:29 PM

Balt: Been there , done that. -Over.

// Operating Department egoes suddenly come down to earth. Then they plot revenge.... 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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