greyhounds So this is how I understand what happened: Three trucks are traveling down the road together in a little "convoy". The drivers of the 2nd and 3rd trucks see the train/crossing signals and stop. The lead driver doesn't try to stop until it's too late.
So this is how I understand what happened:
Three trucks are traveling down the road together in a little "convoy". The drivers of the 2nd and 3rd trucks see the train/crossing signals and stop. The lead driver doesn't try to stop until it's too late.
Interesting that the driver was leading a three-truck convoy. There is a fair amount of distraction that can arise from the fact that a driver is leading or following another driver he knows. For one thing, most people leading a convoy do not want to be considered by their friends to be holding up progress of the group. And in relation to that, a lead driver will frequently focus attention on his or her friends who are following, thus diverting attention away from the road ahead.
He drives his truck into the train causing his own death and the deaths of five other people. (It's very fortunate that the train stayed on the rails.)
Good luck to the NTSB on figuring this one out. I do suggest they check his cell phone records.
In an equally inexplicable incident, here's guy who couldn't swim but jumped off a boat 1,000 feet from shore. They're still looking for him in the lake.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110625/news/706259852/
You can't ask "What were these people thinking?" They weren't really thinking. So, what's the NTSB going to conclude about the truck driver's actions? Who knows? I'd hate to be one of the investigators and try to explain the inexplicable.
greyhounds Anyway, sleepers and parlor cars go on the rear end out of Chicago so your first class passengers don't have to walk as far to get to their assingned cars. They paid for 1st class, give 'em every break. Of course, that means going in to Chicago it's first class on the head end. That's the way the Rock Island, Santa Fe and Burlington did it.
Anyway, sleepers and parlor cars go on the rear end out of Chicago so your first class passengers don't have to walk as far to get to their assingned cars. They paid for 1st class, give 'em every break.
Of course, that means going in to Chicago it's first class on the head end.
That's the way the Rock Island, Santa Fe and Burlington did it.
Ah, the good old days.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Phoebe Vet jeaton: At track speed-79MPH-it would just be a fraction of a second between the time the nose of the engine passed the truck and the collision. Not true. It would have taken at least 5 seconds for the 4th car to reach the road after nose of the engine. The truck would have to have been traveling at a pretty high speed to hit the train that hard even after skidding. 60 MPH is 88 feet a second. The truck would have to have been several hundred feet back when the train entered the crossing.
jeaton: At track speed-79MPH-it would just be a fraction of a second between the time the nose of the engine passed the truck and the collision.
At track speed-79MPH-it would just be a fraction of a second between the time the nose of the engine passed the truck and the collision.
Not true. It would have taken at least 5 seconds for the 4th car to reach the road after nose of the engine. The truck would have to have been traveling at a pretty high speed to hit the train that hard even after skidding. 60 MPH is 88 feet a second. The truck would have to have been several hundred feet back when the train entered the crossing.
Late reports indicate the engineer applied the brakes before the collision so the train speed could have been less. Probably something that will be more accurately calculated in the final NTSB report.
It is also being reported that skid marks indicated the driver may have had the brakes on the rig applied almost 300 feet before the crossing. That would seem to indicate that he saw the train or the crossing protection before before the train entered the crossing.
And the truck skidded 300 feet before striking the train at the crossing. So the truck was going too fast, given it was a double, and/or brake problems?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
jeaton At track speed-79MPH-it would just be a fraction of a second between the time the nose of the engine passed the truck and the collision.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Death toll at 6.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sns-ap-us-amtrak-truck-crash,0,1077655.story
Report that the truck slid 320 feet before impact and the truck cab was imbedded in the car that it struck....
http://beta.news.yahoo.com/drivers-engineer-watched-amtrak-crash-unfold-095615847.html
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What a terrible thing! How could anyone drive a truck into the side of a silver train in broad daylight?
Deggesty jeaton: From one of the online videos showing the damage. The initial impact was to the side of car number 39013, a transition sleeper first behind the baggage car. Some of the rooms in a transition are sometimes used for revenue passengers, but most are for the on-board service crew. The fact that it was daytime and crew members were on duty at other locations in the train may well have saved many from injury. The second Superliner car in the consist, also showing impact and extensive fire damage was number 34033, a coach. That is an unusual position, as coaches in Superliner train consists most often are at the rear of the train. I am going to make a guess that for some reason that car was lightly occupied. A look at the impact and fire damage suggest that most occupants in that would have been at high risk to injury and death. With sympathy to the injured and families, it seems it could have been much worse. I do not know why, but Amtrak does operate the California Zephyr with the sleepers on the rear. Well do I remember walking the full length of the train when we boarded it (in a snowstorm) in Salt Lake City this past April and when we detrained two weeks later on our return home. When we rode the Coast Starlight (both ways) on the same trip, the sleepers were ahead of the parlour car, and when we rode the City of New Orleans (again, both ways) the sleepers were at the front.
jeaton: From one of the online videos showing the damage. The initial impact was to the side of car number 39013, a transition sleeper first behind the baggage car. Some of the rooms in a transition are sometimes used for revenue passengers, but most are for the on-board service crew. The fact that it was daytime and crew members were on duty at other locations in the train may well have saved many from injury. The second Superliner car in the consist, also showing impact and extensive fire damage was number 34033, a coach. That is an unusual position, as coaches in Superliner train consists most often are at the rear of the train. I am going to make a guess that for some reason that car was lightly occupied. A look at the impact and fire damage suggest that most occupants in that would have been at high risk to injury and death. With sympathy to the injured and families, it seems it could have been much worse.
From one of the online videos showing the damage. The initial impact was to the side of car number 39013, a transition sleeper first behind the baggage car. Some of the rooms in a transition are sometimes used for revenue passengers, but most are for the on-board service crew. The fact that it was daytime and crew members were on duty at other locations in the train may well have saved many from injury.
The second Superliner car in the consist, also showing impact and extensive fire damage was number 34033, a coach. That is an unusual position, as coaches in Superliner train consists most often are at the rear of the train. I am going to make a guess that for some reason that car was lightly occupied. A look at the impact and fire damage suggest that most occupants in that would have been at high risk to injury and death.
With sympathy to the injured and families, it seems it could have been much worse.
I rode the CZ a couple of years ago and the sleepers were on the head end. I'll be taking the CZ to Denver early next month and it will be interesting to see how the consist is set. It is entirely possible that there is an operating reason for the CZ to have the coaches on the head end.
Most train/car crashes involve smaller vehicles that are either struck broadside by a train or run into the side of it. In either case, the road vehicle loses. However, there are large, heavy trucks that can tangle with a train, and the contest takes a toll on the train as well as the truck.
Here for some reason, the truck driver approached the crossing without perceiving the train until it was entering the crossing slightly before the truck would have done so. Then the driver saw the train and slammed on the brakes, leaving skid marks, but failed to stop short of the train. Because the train arrived at the crossing first, it got a few cars past the crossing before the truck struck it.
In that scenario, if in fact the truck driver did not see the train until it was passing over the crossing, then one could draw a conclusion about the dynamics involved. Those dynamics would say that the most likely location for a passenger to be affected by a “run-into-train” crash is near the head end. The longer the train runs over the crossing, the more likely it is to alert an approaching motorist.
An R-I-T crash involving a heavy truck is something to think about while riding any passenger train.
So I would rather sleep near the back end, but I suspect that there is a strong counter argument in that there might be more slack back there.
....Now I believe the fatility count is up to 5...That is tragedy way too big. Unobstructed view.....tangent track.....midday timing...signals working....Guess we'll never know how that site became such a site to produce the terrible incident.
Our feelings / thoughts go out to the families involved.
Seems very unusual such a thing could happen {in broad daylight}, when part of the train already was somewhat across and beyond the crossing. What could have taken the attention of driving, away from the driver.....
Reported skid marks near the crossing indicates the driver was alert at that point, but what had his attention as he approached the crossing....Amtrak horns are really loud....And lights flashing...!
That said....It appears Amtrak lost at least 3 cars....Something they certainly can't afford. And some media reports I heard and saw as a "crawler" across the bottom of the TV screen....{Paraphrasing}..."An accident with an Amtrak Passenger Train hitting a semi, etc"....Of course, that just feeds more negative news of the Passenger Operation.
No winners here.....
Quentin
jeaton From one of the online videos showing the damage. The initial impact was to the side of car number 39013, a transition sleeper first behind the baggage car. Some of the rooms in a transition are sometimes used for revenue passengers, but most are for the on-board service crew. The fact that it was daytime and crew members were on duty at other locations in the train may well have saved many from injury. The second Superliner car in the consist, also showing impact and extensive fire damage was number 34033, a coach. That is an unusual position, as coaches in Superliner train consists most often are at the rear of the train. I am going to make a guess that for some reason that car was lightly occupied. A look at the impact and fire damage suggest that most occupants in that would have been at high risk to injury and death. With sympathy to the injured and families, it seems it could have been much worse.
Johnny
Death toll could be higher than two:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-chicago-nevada-amtrak-crash-california-zephyr-20110625,0,5223475.story
The LA Times indicates some witnesses thought the truck attempted to avoid the crash. Seems unlikely based on the evidence so far.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-nevada-train-crash-20110626,0,4724347.story
I smell a cell phone. Maybe some texting while driving. No proof, just a hunch.
It happened at 11:20 am, and the truck hit the train 4 cars deep. How incredibly stupid was this truck driver? Maybe he was related to the moron who drove around the gates a few weeks ago in Chicago. Geez, I wonder where these truck operators buy their permits.
Comments: i would think the fuel tanks on the truck were the cause of the fire. If I remember correctly the company used 100 gallon fuel tanks(each side for a total of 200 gallons of diesel).
The next item is that the driver of the truck, as a local driver(under 100 miles from home terminal) did not keep a log book. Probably a time card somewhere. I would wonder what kind of hours.
Also time of day is kind of unusual 1130am or daylite hours.
This crossing does not have anything to obstruct visibility. No trees, a passing siding with another train(or railcars).
No information on the truck driver or company. Nevada is pretty laisez faire on regulation.
I've been across that crossing in a truck a few times. As I remeber it pretty unremarkable place in the middle of nowhere.
As I said above I can only comment.
Rgds IGN
At least the national media got it right.
Chuck:
I am with you, sometimes you wonder if some reporters,or "Talking Heads" haver anything between their ears to stop suff from just rattling around in that cavity.
Frightening thing was, some of the internet pieces were saying that the two deceased were in the truck. and that it was enroute from Illinois to California. Obviously they were referencing th California Zephyr and NOT the truck! The truck was apparently a double bottom dump trailer combination that was empty at the time of it's hitting the CZ. Do not know if it hit the locomotive or one of the cars following behind them(?).
Scarily the similarities to the Crash at Bourbonnais, Il. in 1999, and AMTRAK #59 when something like 11 people died in the sleepers behind the locomotive
That crash led to a number of DOT /State Law Changes that effected the OTR Driver and Industry with a number of new rules. Just like the Crash out in California when that passenger train hit the UP Freight and so many were killed and injured ( Caused legislation to push for installation of PTC nationwide)
The truth in this Nevada Crash is obviously going to take time to be sorted out.
And, as usual, the local news weenie put the blame on the train!
Having already seen this on my internet feed, you can imagine my feelings when the bit was announced, "Train hits truck in northern Nevada." I sent him an E-mail inquiring how a train can hit anything broadside on.
Also, he sounded critical of the long response time before emergency crews showed up - in the approximate heart of nowhere!
Biased reporting, anyone?
Chuck (Nevada resident)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sns-bc-us--amtrak-truckcrash,0,1311059.story
One person said the truck hit the 4th car on the train, which sounds like the train was already well into the crossing when the truck ran into it.
Here are video, photos and late info from a Reno paper. http://www.rgj.com/article/20110624/NEWS/110624012/Passengers-describe-scene-deadly-truck-Amtrak-train-crash?odyssey=nav%7Chead
It looks like the first two Superliners were destroyed by the impact and fire. Just behind the baggage car, these would typically be sleepers. Photos indicate the truck was a tractor pulling doubles, dump trailers of the trough type used for gravel and other bulk materials. Can't tell for sure, but it appears the trailers were empty. I suspect the intensity of the fire was the result on the fuel tanks on the tractor bursting on impact. No good pictures of the remnents of the tractor, but it appears it was totally blown apart.
One photo shows skid marks from dual tires, but no way to tell if the skid marks were from this truck. Beside gates and flashing lights on posts, there are also light on the top of a bridge over the roadway.
I'd guess the engineer must have seen the truck within a few feet of the crossing. At track speed-79MPH-it would just be a fraction of a second between the time the nose of the engine passed the truck and the collision.
The linked article reports the death of the driver and one other-some indication an Amtrak crew member. Also 6 others seriously injured, but a responder reported that a search of the burned cars was not completed.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/traffic/transit/amtrak-truck-crash--124511984.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-2-killed-when-amtrak-train-from-chicago-hits-semi-20110624,0,2226228.story
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