Future of Railroading

[Anonymous]

Before the railroad is remotely operated from the "bat cave" it is more likely that a one man crew will be an engineer with a remote box. When he needs to do switching he will flip a few switches on the wall panel and then put on his remote control box and get on the ground and start the switching. I think it is very dangerous to have a one man crew because of people falling asleep, lonliness can lead to all kinds of stuff, and if the lone operator were to get hurt no one may even know about it!!! I'm sure the railroads are trying to figure out a way for a one-man crew, but the technology had better improve by leaps and bounds before they even try implementing that idea. Just my [2c]

[Junctionfan]

I figure that those AEM 7 can draw the power to get 8000hp so 2 AEM 7 can get 16000hp or almost 4 SD70MAC. The P-42DC engines are designed to be both diesel and electric so Amtrak shouldn't have a lot of problems. The SD90MAC is a big engine. Refurbish it to an electric locomotive and maybe you could draw as much as 10000 hp! If car manufacturers start puting moters in the cars themselves, you could run a 500 car train without worring about slack action. Like running a long passenger train with 1 P-42DC and 30 RDCs-something like that.

[Hugh Jampton]

In the UK we have had OMO (one man operated) trains for ages,, it's gotta be the one thing that we aren't 10 years behind.

Most advances will be IT related,, better car tracking, improved methods of condition monitoring (track as well as trains), transmission based signalling (doing away with blocks and lineside signals {these systems can be automatic, so a lot of dispatchers can go}), and things like that there.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I wondering if the railroads should build their own powerplant and go electric. The only problem I can forsee though is running electric with double stacks. Is there enough clearance for that?

Caternary can be hung high enough to clear double stacks as long as there are no other height restrictions (existing overhead bridges, tunnels, etc....)

However, there is a lot more to it than just hanging wires. Virtually all electrical equipment associated with the railroad (signals, track detection equipment, dispatching systems, crossing detectors and so on) would all have to be modified or replaced to work in association with the high voltage, since the track is used as the ground for the locomotive's electrical system. Not impossible, just very expensive. But, still an excellent idea.[tup]

[Junctionfan]

I wondering if the railroads should build their own powerplant and go electric. The only problem I can forsee though is running electric with double stacks. Is there enough clearance for that?

[JoeKoh]

Railroads going away?I think not.I hopper vs 15 semi loads.do the math.
stay safe
Joe

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jruppert

Using such a small amount of water could make a condensation cycle economical.

Using such a small amount of water makes it possible to use water of a high purity.

My god !!!! why hasn't anybody thought of these things !!!!!!!

The materials and the technology exist today. A truly modern steam locomotive !!!!

mix in a few politicians and naysayers and then look at your receipe again.

Mook

[Anonymous]

Oh, 1200 psi steam has a superheat temperature of about 1000 F. So, again there are materials that make it doable.

[Anonymous]

Using such a small amount of water could make a condensation cycle economical.

Using such a small amount of water makes it possible to use water of a high purity.

My god !!!! why hasn't anybody thought of these things !!!!!!!

The materials and the technology exist today. A truly modern steam locomotive !!!!

[Anonymous]

By using a minimum of water and steam, condensation in a mobile land based application -locomotive- becomes economical. I have said it before, a closed cycle steam plant can have efficiencies as high as 30%, but this is not possible in a locomotive because massive cooling capacity is necessary to complete a condensation cycle. This is not a problem in a ship in the ocean, or a power plant near a river.

To heat one pound of water at sea level from 32 F to 212F takes 180 BTU of heat.

To convert one pound of 212 F water at sea level to 212 F steam takes 970 BTU of heat.

This is called latent heat value.

To condense that same steam, that much heat must then be removed.

How much water does a conventional steam locomotive hold?

Water weighs about eight pounds a gallon, so a thousand gallons weighs about eight thousand pounds, and has almost 8 million BTU of latent heat!!!!

What if a steam locomotive had a closed system with fifty gallons of water.

And, then this water was cycled at a very high rate?

[Anonymous]

"A man told me ya better get out fast, Ah don't think railroadin's gonna last, we're movin' on, we're rollin' on..."

-Anonymous Ballad

A lot of the old heads used to tell us when we were new that the old timers of their day told them this in the 50s and 60s. Railroading is ever changing. Sitting in front of a screen controlling trains miles or even hundreds of miles away isn't the same as running from the cab, but it would probably be quite a bit safer.

Nothing stands still. I doubt we'll see control centers in my lifetime...

LC

[Anonymous]

In the old days railroads literally built towns so they could have traffic. From what I have seen here lately, is that it seems railroads no longer have this level of interest in related industries, or the general population. I am quite a novice in this area though, so I could be wrong.

Why not build (RR Co.) industrial parks with track access to all areas, and then offer companies incentive to relocate, or incentive to startup.

Maybe business that locate on a RR could get a tax break for relieving highway traffic.

Maybe business could be allowed to locate directly on trainyard property to get immediate acces to shipments. That's what airports do.

If I read right, CN is now a true continental bridge line, something similar will have to be developed to compete in the U.S. - maybe a coalition train nonstop coast to coast.

Could it be that railroads in their current physical form have met a maximum? What would be the next paradigm? I don't know, you can only put so much weight on a steel wheel on a steel rail.

If grades and curves were completely eliminated just how long could a train be?

I see hydrogen fuel cells in green goats, but what about the constant power demands of a road locomotive? Railpower proposes a CNG loco, but CNG doesn't have the BTU/Lb. of diesel. As fossil fuels become rare, will electric locos make a comeback? or a modern steam loco burning coal with a closed system condensation cycle?

I know much has been researched by serious groups already and no real benefit was discovered such as the ACE 2000. While they developed a locomotive that looked like a modern diesel but ran on steam and coal, I believe they relied to heavily on old paradigms, and thus, developed a locomotive that did not exceed any current standard. They did propose an increase in efficiency up to 18%, which is pretty high for a steam locomotive, more than double any conventional steam loco. But compared to diesel, this is not an improvement, and they hoped on the continueing low price of coal.

What I say is why not 30% or 40% efficiency? what kind of boiler can do that? Instead of a large boiler and 300 PSI, why not three or four "micro boilers", that can react quickly to changes. Such small boilers could operate at much higher pressures, because they have small surface areas, maybe 1200 PSI !!!!!

How about this for radical? A DRY BOILER! A chamber heated to extreme temperature, a small quantity of water is injected and instataneously explodes !!! This is repeated at high speed !!!!!!! BBBBBBBBBAM!!!!!!!!!

How about configuring these dry micro boilers to operate vertically, and arrange them on horizontal manifolds, the water manifold on the bottom, and the steam manifold at the top. Water comes in at the bottom, is injected into a chamber, BAM!, then steam in the upper manifold. Unlike verticle tube boilers, there is no seperation of water and steam at the top, only pure superheated steam comes directly out of the chambers !!!!

By keeping internal volumes as small as possible, this system could use an absolute minimum of steam at extreme pressures.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Heartland Flyer

I see plenty of Intermodal Cars and Trailers.

When I lived in Portland a buddy of mine used to work for gunderson and told me that a couple years ago they started getting more orders in for boxcars than for intermodal stuff/buckets, etc... Interesting, huh?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

Miss Cleo says that I will see lots of armour yellow in my future!!! Just kidding. I can see totally automated locomotives operated by a guy miles away looking at a computer screen. No need for in engine crews.

aw christ, that's terrible. even a one man crew seems depressing. who to talk to? how to make friends with co-workers. What a depressing job that will make railroading, at least from the engineer's perspective. That's like cops being able to go without partners. I know for them it's a safety issue and all but who would deny that's it's also probably a bit of a morale booster to have another human presence with you in the squad car. Can you imagine doing three hundred mile runs in the cab of a locomotive BY YOURSELF? Either there's going to be a lot more smokers or a lot more closet drunks.

[Anonymous]

I see plenty of Intermodal Cars and Trailers.

[miniwyo]

Miss Cleo says that I will see lots of armour yellow in my future!!! Just kidding. I can see totally automated locomotives operated by a guy miles away looking at a computer screen. No need for in engine crews.

[Anonymous]

Engineer Only Crews, I bet you in the next few years they will figure out ways to get clearances out by computers on board the locomotives (or handheld computers like Palms) and they role of the conductor will be useless making most if not all freight trains engineer only -- at least the Unit and Intermodal trains that don't require switching on-line.

It's going to get lonely out there.

[Junctionfan]

Here is a thread I thought would be cool for people interested in giving their opinions on what railroad could do to better the business and the economy of our nations whether you are from the United States, Canada or elsewhere.

I'm very interested in what you have to say. I will put my Ideas later as I am still acessing my opinions to see if they are informed or not.