the canadian national railroad has a small side track used to provide train service to on the weekend and when needed which most of the time would be the weekend and the side track has a customer base of three with an grain production business with one carload delivered to and from the customer each weekend and a small coil warehouse which would see a carload rate of four each weekend and a business that should be familiar known as Guinness beer which most material from the warehouse and distribution Plant are from truck and the canadian national would provide Guinness with a weekend carload rate of four.
the line is less than a mile and me and my family had been interested to purchase the side track which we come from a relative of mine had been the former president of brunswick bowling and more. and I had been wondering whether or not canadian national railroad would want to give this line up used 52 times a year with a 800 annual carload rate and if you believe that the canadian national railroad would want to give this line up how much would it cost. not an exact estimate but I want your opinion if you think this side track would be worth thousands or tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands?
this is the line and I realize the post I had recently about the tomahawk railway that was something I wanted to do but I doubt I want to any more since I would like to stay closer to family in northern illinois.
this is the line:
24440 West 143rd street Plainfield, IL
this address is that of the guinness beer plant and you will notice the chemical cars lined up at the property of the facility and as you look around the area you will notice a street called north van *** and as the side track would end before the road and the main line is the CN Leithton subdivision which as you follow the side track you would come across the coil plus business located literally right next to guinness with the one steel car outside of the building and as you follow the line even further the other customers are abandoned except the grain facility toward the end of the line.
thanks and please provide how much it would cost and if this would be a line CN would want to sell.
also these are the proposed railroad names we had come up with if this were to happen and please pick which one is your favorite:
The Plainfield Railroad
The Walker Grove Railroad
Morris Terminal Railroad
Joliet And Eastern
Joliet And Western
Aux Sable Terminal Railroad
Me And My Family Like Walker Grove Railroad The Best And Have Thought To Purchase A CN Locomotive Switcher and have the paint scheme similiar to the Iowa Interstate Railroad Rock Island Heritage Locomotive exactly the same with the lettering in the same design and everything which the difference would be "Walker Grove" except rock island
thanks!
Easily upwards of $100,000 if they would even sell.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Local shortline in town recently opened. 2 mile line. When the new owner purchased it, it had no active customers (it was actually a former customer that wanted to restart rail service for his business that bought it), no connection to the local class 1 (that had to be put back in), and all the grade crossings needed rebuilt. Also needed ballast/ tie work.
That line cost well over $100K. Now for an active line with customers? That is IF CN was willing to sell? Who knows.. but I doubt it would be cheap.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Why would you want to buy this? How would you break even on it's operation?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
How did that Flagstaff project work out for you?
If you are talking to CN call them by Canadian National RailWAY.
CN.
800 carloads on a 2 mile line is likely pretty profitable. The rule of thumb is 100 carloads per track mile. Below that, and the line is probably not profitable.
If CN were willing to sell, the price would depend on the deal you cut for the revenue. They would want to come out ahead when they calculate the net present value of the current operations vs sale to you.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Read everything on Roy Blanchard's website at http://www.rblanchard.com/index.html Consider subsscribing to his newsletter, and strongly recommend hiring him (or someone else like him) to fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
Lat. / Long. coords. of the Guiness facility as I understand your description, from the ACME Mapper 2.0 application: N 41.62597 W 88.21313
What's the plant on the other / eastern side of the CN main on the northern side of W. 143rd St. with all the covered hoppers ? (approx. 44 cars) How often does CN switch that ?
The industrial lead on the west side of the CN single-track main here is about 1.8 miles long, but has only a left-hand crossover near its northern end (0.1 mile south of W. 127th St.), which provides a "run-around track" with about 1,000 ft. between the clearance points. Looks like the turnouts to the Guiness and coil plants 'face' south, but the next 3 turnouts to the north face north, then the grain facility (?) has a double-ended siding with about 1,100 ft. between the clearance points.
So where will CN drop-off and pick-up cars ?
Where will you park a switcher out of their way ?
How will you get onto the proper ends of the cars to serve each of those customers, without having to go onto the CN main ? (which looks like its signalled, too, by the way)
Where's any operational advantage to CN of selling that lead track to you, if they still have to clog up their main with a local freight to serve you and that plant on the other side ? And if CN is doing that on weekends only now, they may be perfectly happy with that schedule as it is, to minimize the impact on their main line operations.
Suggest you listen to a scanner or otherwise find out when, and then watch the CN local switch all of these plants for several weekends in a row, and keep careful notes on each step of what they do and why. In the meantime, you can read and digest all of Blanchard's info as above.
Good luck with it all !
- Paul North.
The Other Plant With The Several Dozen Carlooad Would Be The Entec Business Which That Is A Transload Business Which The CN Local That Would Work The Coil Business And The Grain And Guinness Business Would Work That Business The Same Time Which Would Be The Weekend Most Of The Time. The Transload Business Does Look Like It Would See Routine Service But That Is Not The Case Which When The CN Local Does Provide Train Service There The Carload Rate Would Be Four Each Weekend And Once In A While Even Less.
Also I Plan To Have This Proposed Railroad To Get Track Authorization From Walker To The CN Joliet Yard Which Is Less Than Half An Hour From Walker Or Have CN Provide Train Connection To The Walker Industrial Track.
On The Walker Industrial Track There Is A Few Abandoned Businesses So The Locomotive Could Be Parked There Or At The CN Joliet Yard.
I Would Have The Locomotive Face The Same Direction The Same Time Without Interruption Of The CN Leithton Subdivision Which To Do So I Would Run The Train Around Some Customer Track And More.
A Positive Side For The Canadian National Railroad To Sell The Industrial Track Would Be That To Them It Would Seem Like A Waste To Even Provide Some Train Service Since To Run Around The Track After Each Customer Switch Would Be An Annoying Aspect To Them I Believe And I Think The Railroad Does Not Even Want It Since The Track Is Poor Coniditioned And It Has A Small Carload Rate. And This Would Not Take A Job From A CN Train Crew Since The Crew That Does Service This Line Is A Road Train That Would Service A Few Other Businesses And Head North To Almost Wisconsin And Provide Yard Service And More Up North.
And I Have Spoke To The Train Crew That Dneoes Work This Line Before I Had Been Interested To Purchase This Line And I Overheard Them As The Crew Mentioned This Is Some Hard Work Since The Crew Has To Leave The Train On The Main And Come Back To The Train After They Service One Customer And Much More So I Have Seen Them Many Times.
And Also To Anyone Seeing This, To Make A Good Sized Profit I Would Plan To Become The Conductor And Locomotive Engineer Which This Is Possible Since I Have Seen Not Much But Few Railroads Were The One Employee Would Be The Owner And This Would Not Be Hard Work Since I Would Not Be Servicing A Coal Mine Or Something Just A Few Customes Each Weekend And I Would Plan To Work For CN In Illinois As A Conductor Than An Engineer To Save Money And Get Knowledge Of The Railroad.
So BNSF, do you have any railroad experience?
NOTE: I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm just curious - as the answer can reflect advice given to the original poster.
oltmannd 800 carloads on a 2 mile line is likely pretty profitable. The rule of thumb is 100 carloads per track mile. Below that, and the line is probably not profitable. If CN were willing to sell, the price would depend on the deal you cut for the revenue. They would want to come out ahead when they calculate the net present value of the current operations vs sale to you.
The "net present value" of the traffic, as such, might not be that important a factor to CN, if the traffic from the line would continue to be interchanged with CN after the sale. That's because, if CN continued to handle the traffic generated by the short line in interchange, they wouldn't need to be compensated for loss of the revenue stream produced by the traffic. This is the reason that some large railroads have leased lines to short lines for zero rental or sold them cheaply, where the traffic generated by the short line will be interchanged with the large railroad.
On the other hand, a key issue that CN would likely look at is whether they would actually save any money by selling the line to you and paying you to provide the service, rather than providing it themselves. For example, would they be able to eliminate a local train assignment, or at least save some overtime? Given the short length of this line, it's not readily apparent that there would be much savings. For example, while CN would no longer have to directly switch the industries on the line, they would still have to interchange the cars to and from the short line. It's entirely possible that, with a line this short, they won't save any money at all. They aren't going to even consider a short line sale if they will have to pay the short line more to provide the service than they will save in not providing it themselves.
I'm not sure that I see a two mile shortline in Plainfield, IL as described by BNSF. What I see is a bunch of industrial tracks that lead into the Walker Siding. (I can also see on Bing maps that the south end of Walker siding is being used for either car storage or as a switching lead - the map / picture is inconclusive.)
In the future - near future - the CN plans to double-track the ex-"J" mainline from Liberty / East Siding (Eola) to Bridge 198 (near Joliet). That could change how the local switching is performed in this area. Also, given the scrutiny that CN is facing with their purchase of the "J" and ongoing transformation of the railroad itself, I would find it hard to believe that CN would be in a selling / rental mode of any industrial tracks and / or property that feeds directly into this line in the near future with one possible exception. The exception would be the former "J" from either Leithton or Roundout / P Baker industry to Waukegan.
If BNSF is really interested in buying something from CN in the Chicago area, I would suggest waiting a few years. As the former "J" is transformed into a main line the roles of other CN routes in the Chicago area will change. For example, keep an eye on the former IC Freeport Subdivision. Once the connection at Munger in the SW quadrant is completed allowing freights to / from Iowa a direct connection to the former "J", scheduled through freights between Munger and Hawthore Yard will drop to zero. (Also, once the connection at Leithton is complete freight trains from the Waukesha Sub to the Freeport Sub at Broadview via the IHB will cease if they haven't already.) The main online customers are Major Prime Plastics in Villa Park and an industrial park in Carol Stream. Between Villa Park and Bridgeport there is very little online traffic left. Look for CN to try to sell this route to a shortline operator first. If unsuccessful, then look for the segment between Villa Park and Bridgeport to be abandoned in segments in the coming years starting with Villa Park to Broadview.
CC
If you want to play railroader on a real RR and not a museum line, perhaps you could try the Chicago Terminal RR. It's already owner-operated to the best of my knowledge, and as such it may be a lot easier for you to get in on it and get your hands on some trains to run. Certainly a lot easier than trying to do anything with CN.
Alternatively, if you have the money and the time, you could always go to the IL RR museum in Union IL. The regular route to getting to operate equipment there is a lot of volunteer time and you start at the bottom, but hey, if you have deep pockets they always need more money and I'm sure if you offer to pay they'd be more than willing to give you an engineer seat right off the bat.
Another real neat thing for the IL RR Museum would be perhaps to organize a weekend train into the city - into Union station, where it picks people up in the morning takes them out to the museum and then back in the evening. I'd love to organize something like that but I have neither the time nor money.
No I Have No Previous Railroad Experience Since I Am In Twelve Grade Which When I Graduate I Plan To Go To The National Academy Of Railroad Science To Obtain A Conductor Certificate And Work For The Canadian National Railroad For Quite Some Time Than Purchase This Line Or Another Railroad That I Had Been Interested Known As The Tomahawk Railroad.
Thank You And Thank You For Your Note About Not Arrogant Since If You Did Not Put That I Would Have Guessed You Had Been.
BNSF/NARS:- Running a real railroad is a lot more complicated than you think. If you don't know what you're doing or don't fully understand all of the aspects of running a railroad, it can quickly turn into a "black hole for money." My advice to you is this:
Something else to consider too. Even if you are able to purchase the line, because it connects directly with the United States standard gauge railroad network, now you'll have dozens of regulations to comply with as required by the Federal Railroad Administration and the Surface Transportation Board. Keeping required records alone will require you to hire a full time office staff.
BNSF@NARS No I Have No Previous Railroad Experience Since I Am In Twelve Grade Which When I Graduate I Plan To Go To The National Academy Of Railroad Science To Obtain A Conductor Certificate And Work For The Canadian National Railroad For Quite Some Time Than Purchase This Line Or Another Railroad That I Had Been Interested Known As The Tomahawk Railroad. Thank You And Thank You For Your Note About Not Arrogant Since If You Did Not Put That I Would Have Guessed You Had Been.
I would forget about owning a railroad for now, and just focus on getting a job with one. Once you see what a railroad is really like (and not what the magazines romanticize), you may have a change of heart.
PS. I don't mean to sound like an English teacher, but if you want to someday succeed in the business world, you have to work on your grammar. You should only capitalize the first word of a sentence and proper nouns - not every word. It also makes your posts very hard to read.
If you're only in 12th grade and live in the Chicago area, Sawtooth500's suggestion to get involved with Illinois Railway Museum is a good one. It would give you a good working knowledge of railroad technology and operating practices without making a career commitment. A number of IRM's members have parleyed their museum experience into railroad careers, both in railroad operations and management.
This, of course, is in addition to going to college and getting the educational background necessary to succeed in the business world. Railroading is, first and foremost, a business.
CN might not be the best road to hire out on...FWIW. Up north at least.
You have a lot more to consider than you seem to think. Starting a short line requires a willing seller. CN is very unlikely to sell active trackage to a short line operator without a very demanding reason. I don't see that in the track you propose to operate. Having started several short lines and being involved in the operation of several in a senior management role, I can say that this transaction is very unlikely to happen, even if you substantially overpaid as it looks to be more trouble for the CN than it is worth. Leaving aside the fact that with a couple of small exceptions in Mississippi CN has been acquiring short lines and regionals rather than spinning anything off for several years demonstrating that management does not intend to have any significant short lining program. Also, the STB rules for short line creation are in flux with a Union friendly administration in the White House as the trade unions generally oppose short lining because they see the process as costing Class 1 jobs.
Don't give up if working for a short line or operating your own is your dream. You are better off working for a Class 1 or Regional first if you can and learning one or more railroad disciplines on their dime before making a serious run at your own. As one of the youngest short line owners in the U.S. I am several decades older than you so take heart, time is on your side. Good luck...
LC
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