Part of the imbalance question can be answered in that UPS was not a freight hauler, not dealing with manufactured goods, but with retail packages and white collar business to business materials..
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Henry, perhaps you or others could comment on the imbalance of UPS freight moving from east to west.
Lets take a look at the numbers:
WESTBOUND, October, 1975: EASTBOUND, Oct, 1975
Marion trailers 8 Marion trailers 7
Huntington trailers 9 Huntington trailers 9
Chicago trailers 61 Chicago trailers 40
Chicago Interchange 45 Chicago interchange 0
TTL ave daily 123 TTL ave daily 56
Obviously, UPS had confidence and the ability to load trailers for Marion and Huntington with consistant balance...almost even. Chicago had 3 to 2 imbalance of loads going west....not too bad, but look at the Chicago interchange - there was nothing coming back east off of the ATSF, IC, or MoPac.
Why? Was it the nature of UPS's business? Or was it that while the WB interchange business could be fairly controlled (more on that a little later), the EB couldnt?
UPS/EL/MoPac had an interesting operation in Chicago. EL's terminal was at 51st Street. They would block the Dallas MoPac traffic right behind the locomotives and upon arrival at the terminal would cut off the MoPac block and immediately proceed north to the MoPac terminal at 35th street. I will quote the article
"It was a simple matter to blcok the Texas trailers at the head end of the Chicago group on CX99. The train would pull into 51st Street, the power would cut off with the MoPac cars and continue down the C&WI to 35th Street. Within an hour or two, the cars passed the EL yard on their way to Dolton and hotshot CE (Chicago - ElPaso, later CFZ, Chicago -Fort Worth Trailers) due in Dallas at 730 the next evening."
Wow. What an operation.
Ok, so let's ask two questions:
1. Why wasnt it repeated EB from the Chicago interchange?
2. Why was UPS's traffic primarily WB, given that Chicago was such an industrial center? Has the business climate changed that much? I think of Chicago as shipping considerable outbound freight everywhere in that era, regardless of carload, truckload, parcel, UPS, mail, etc. It was a manufacturing center (more of a distribution center now). Has the nature of shipping changed in 40 years? Did most of what Chicago shipped at that time go as larger shipments and simply be too large for UPS?
3. What was New York/NJ, et al shipping in such volumes?
Henry, I am going to state that at the time of Conrail, it was necessary for one route to go. I understand your strong backing of EL, and I certainly enjoy discussing it with you, but from what is stated, there wasnt enough traffic for the ex NYC, PRR, and EL lines to exist.
NYC had the route that branched to New England and had on line business (Toledo, Cleveland, Erie, Buffalo, Rochester, etc) and PRR had the steel, coal, and other merchandise business. What did EL offer, other than a decent route, if properly maintained to hustle trailers from Chicago to NYC? Was that enough to support that line? I dont think so.
As it turned out, within 10 years the western part of the PRR - Ft Wayne to Chicago was pretty much dead as traffic funnelled to the NYC route.
Thanks,
Ed
Note the date for 50 eastbound trailers from and 22 westbound were 1970 numbers...by 1975 they were quite a bit higher...two trailers on 50 to 75 cars were common...the Chi to NY timing was extremely successful for the EL and the bane of PC...the route was shorter, less congested, and the company and its employees most willing to make it work. Thus when the PC crew, in the guise of CR, got hold of the property the decimated it (decimate: to chop into ten parts) so that it could not be put back together again.
MP 173/ ed - Thanks much for digging out those issues, reviewing them, and posting such a good summary of them here ! It seems that henry6 was pretty much on the mark with his recollection of 100-trailer trains, depending on the train, the day of the week, and direction, etc.
John Kneiling often wrote that E-L could steal PC's lunch on TOFC - and later intermodal moves - with its uncluttered route and 'lighter' corporate structure, operating costs, and lower burdens of various kinds. Those articles show that they did, and likely could have done even better with a little more help.
"Sight draft" is the correct term = You are authorized to draw on my account and "Pay that amount immediately to the person holding this check" upon your 'sight' of it, is a simple way of putting it; for a more formal definition, just "Google" it.
- Paul North.
nevermind
does anyone have a picture of the 28ft FedEx trailer?
Interestingly, the Q110 runs on basically the same schedule as the 2/NY did back in the early 1970s.
Then:
Depart 51 st Chicago at 430am
Arrive Croxton @ 11am
Today
Depart Bedford Park at 7am
Arrive North Bergen at 1030am
Same train, same customer, different routing due to evolution of the industry.
Fascinating narrative of the UPS/EL service, as reported by The Diamond, the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society magazine. As earlier reported, this was contained in three publications, Vol 21, numbers 2, 3, and 4. I will summarize the excellent articles written by Paul Brezicki and Lance Melin.
Penn Central was handling most of UPS TOFC business into and out of NYC area. In late 1970 the service was crumbling and one night the UPS supervisor telephoned the EL intermodal terminal manager and told him to expect 30 trailers. Those arrived and the manager held the WB train, catching all sorts of grief until the EL management figured out what kind of opportunity this was.
On October 12, 1970, UPS shifted all their TOFC to EL with it being handled by WB train CX-99 due to depart at 530am with arrival in Chicago at 10am two days later. Outbound UPS terminals were Stratford Ct, Allentown, Pa, Mazpeth (Queens), Manahatten (43rd STreet) and Secaucus. Typical loadings were 50 trailers WB and 22 EB (on NY100).
A set off was established at Marion, Oh for Lexington, Ky and Detroit trailers. At Chicago trailers were handled over the road to Des Moines, Milwaukee, and Mpls/StPaul.
Over the next few years UPS added more destinations. In 1971 the following were added - St. Louis (via NW at Huntington), Topeka and OKCity (via Santa Fe) and Jackson, Ms (IC). Those destinations added an average of 6 trl per day. Later, Dallas was added via MoPac (12 trl per day). Volumes grew as UPS fine tuned the operations.
In 1972 Hurricane Agnes severely damaged the EL operations and on time performance fell to about 50% in July. By August the performance was back up to 99.8%, even tho EL entered bankruptcy. The week ending Oct 21 saw 875 UPS loads handled, 600 WBs. Advance CX99 (A/CX99) was added to handle the increasing WB traffic. Thus, EL ran 2 WBs and 1EB UPS trains, which remained in place until the end. Indianapolis was added (6 trls per day) roaded from Huntington to Indy.
In 1973 the schedules were established with both A/CX99 and CX99 both running Tu-Sa with A/CX leaving at 0130 and CX leaving at 0400. Cleveland was added (Akron), as was Hartford, Ct. Traffic was funneled during this time to Croxton, Port Jervis, or Scranton for pickups WB and set offs at Akron, Marion, and Huntington.
One of the great features of UPS was they paid the same day the trailers were delivered, no doubt important to the EL. As a side note, during my early career in trucking, we had a similar arrangement with a customer that tendered a site draft (?) with each bill of lading. Cash is always KING!.
The 1974 recession dropped UPS traffic 12% for EL.
In 1975 the wheels started coming off as track conditions deteriorated. There were 63 slow orders at one time between Hammond and Marion. The EB 2/NY100 was often split into 2 sections at Meadville, one for Port Jervis and one for Croxton, in order to expedite movements.
New WB traffic was added:
Santa Fe received Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Kansas City. BN received Denver and the St. Louis traffic moved to the IC Slingshot, as UPS purchased 1/2 of one Slingshot train daily, moving the business from NW, as their schedules lengthened.
Here are the average WB UPS loads out for October of each year:
1970 - 50, 1971 -86, 1972 - 120 and 1975 -123
Eastbounds:
1970 - 22 with 12 mts, 1971 - 39 (9), 1972 -48 (10) and 1975 - 56 (10).
Henry, I am not splitting hairs with you...this is the info from the article. Your memory is very accurate WB. One doesnt know if there were other TOFCs on trains.
I would strongly recommend picking up these issues. The articles are very well written and researched with strong documentation from EL records rescued before destruction.
UPS has a very interesting history. I do not know of any books outlining their history...if anyone knows such a publication, please let me know.
ed
t.winx It's been a few weeks since this new Fedex traffic has been around. I saw one comment about seeing 28ft pups. Anybody else notice more Fedex business?
It's been a few weeks since this new Fedex traffic has been around. I saw one comment about seeing 28ft pups. Anybody else notice more Fedex business?
I've seen a few more FEX EX pups the past few days but --- This morning I saw approximately what appeare to be about 20 brand new FED EX 53 ft trailers on a CSX train that may have been one of the BNSF haulage trains. (circumstances were such cannot verify for sure).
The 53 ft trailers were equipped with skirts from the king pin to wheels. Also a couple of FED EX pups. Also saw about 5 of the new refrigerated 53 footers for _________? on same train.
Eastbound through Bingahmton 99 had over 100 trailers on a regular basis....wesbound 99 the same with another 50 off the D&H99.
The articles are contained in The Diamond (Published by the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society) Volume 21, Numbers 2, 3, 4 (2007).
There are very detailed articles (about 35 pages total) with considerable photos. I will take a look at the volumes tonight and give a breakdown later.
Henry:Do I think you are making up the 100 trailers per day on the EL (UPS)? I dont think you are making it up, but there is a three part article in the EL magazine about EL's relationship with UPS. Very informative.
I will look it up and confirm the volume they were handling. Could swear it was considerably less than 100 per day WB, but I certainly could be wrong. Gotta figure out where those magazines are.
Today, the CSX train Q110 is a hot EB out of Chicago about 6am. It handles considerable UPS traffic, in addition to other TL and LTL freight. It is thru NW Indiana around 8am and is very very regular. Running 7 days per week, it usually has between 5000 and 8000 feet of train,. On the occassions that I have done a trailer count, my estimate is that it contained about 60-80 UPS trailers (those branded UPS or the lease trailers such as XTRA, VRTZ, and others).
Q110 is always powered with 3 locomotives and is quite an impressive train.
BaltACD UPS uses railroads to provide much of their long haul 'Ground' transport between many O-D pairs. While UPS is a signifigant customer on all the routes they use....they rarely if ever have solid train load moves. Considering that a 9000 foot double stack train has the ability to handle 280 containers. 280 containers is a WHOLE lot of small parcels and packages in each and every container and I doubt even UPS is moving this amount of traffic at one time between one O-D pair. 50 - 60 - even 80 trailers or containers would not be unheard of.
UPS uses railroads to provide much of their long haul 'Ground' transport between many O-D pairs.
While UPS is a signifigant customer on all the routes they use....they rarely if ever have solid train load moves. Considering that a 9000 foot double stack train has the ability to handle 280 containers. 280 containers is a WHOLE lot of small parcels and packages in each and every container and I doubt even UPS is moving this amount of traffic at one time between one O-D pair. 50 - 60 - even 80 trailers or containers would not be unheard of.
There are still at least 3 solid UPS trains that run regularly. BNSF's North Bay (and other locations) - Willow Springs trains run I think 4 days a week and I've seen more than 100 trailers on those (WSP - NBY used to be solid UPS but I think it is combined with Stockton biz now since '09). NS 21E with trailers from multiple NE origins to Willow Springs runs 6 days a week with 50-80 trailers. CSX Q100 runs Wednesdays east out of Chicago to the NE.
oltmannd CSX got the Chicago - NJ UPS lane at the split. I think they still have all of it. Conrail moved nearly all the UP traffic from Chicago to NJ via the Chicago Line, not the Pittsburgh Line. UPS wanted the traffic at North Bergen, not South Kearny - a more convenient dray. NS would take it to Croxton - if they had it.
CSX got the Chicago - NJ UPS lane at the split. I think they still have all of it.
Conrail moved nearly all the UP traffic from Chicago to NJ via the Chicago Line, not the Pittsburgh Line. UPS wanted the traffic at North Bergen, not South Kearny - a more convenient dray. NS would take it to Croxton - if they had it.
Yes, but CR also got the state of PA and the Feds to clear the PA line so that stacks and trailers could go that way.
henry6 What a difference a few decades make! UPS used to send 100 or more trailers in each direction between Chicago and NY in each direction every day back in the 70's on EL's 99/100 service...solid trains of UPS trailers often in more than one section, too. A seperate set went via D&H to and from Binghamton for New England points. I don't know how many trailers NS carries per because CR took that traffic over the PRR to NY and over the NYC to Boston (Worcester) when they dismantled the Erie and Lackawanna routes through upstate NY.
What a difference a few decades make! UPS used to send 100 or more trailers in each direction between Chicago and NY in each direction every day back in the 70's on EL's 99/100 service...solid trains of UPS trailers often in more than one section, too. A seperate set went via D&H to and from Binghamton for New England points. I don't know how many trailers NS carries per because CR took that traffic over the PRR to NY and over the NYC to Boston (Worcester) when they dismantled the Erie and Lackawanna routes through upstate NY.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
FedEx and UPS don't worry about the scales. They can't get enough packages in there to be overweight. They run out of room before they run out of weight.
That, of course, doesn't apply to FedEx freight.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Truthfully, the UPS and FED EX trains I hate to see are the two car jobbies coming at me on the interstate or twisting along a two lane road evading troopers' scales!
Every time I see something with a UPS equipment on a train, it has been TOFC.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
FED-EX, Hasstarted a lot of TOFC movements , on the "BNSF Transcon" line. I see alot of them both eastbound , and westbound , on "Z" and "Q" trains, and lately on trains to PHoenix, through "WILLIAMS JCT" on the "peavine line.
A BNSF haulage train came thru Ga yesterday with 2 FED EX pups on it. I find that strange unless the pups were loaded in California and passed thru Memphis without stopping.
Under the subject of pups UPS in this area almost always loads pups for the drivers to double bottom instead of one large trailer.
I counted the cars often. I was at QD yard office and other EL locations when the trains went through. What? Doesn't anybody believe that railroads used to do the job before modern day rules, laws and equipment came onto the scene? Or do you think I'm just making it up as I go along?
Henry:Are you sure about 100 trailers daily?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Yes UPS Does Use The Railroad To Provide Connection To Eastern And Western America Which The BNSF Railroad Would Connect With UPS Around Northern Illinois And Move The Train To And From The West Coast Or Provide Movement To The BNSF Western Avenue Yard In Northern Illinois To Connect With The NS Railroad To Connect To Eastern America.
The Train Would Consists Of Intermodal Which A Trailer From UPS Would Be Put On The Train Beside A Container So The Train Would Handle More Than One Truck Trailer.
There Could Be An Entire FedEx Train With FedEx And No Other Business But That Would Be Rare Since BNSF And NS Would Handle An Entire UPS Train Once Or Twice On A Routine Basis.
For several years, I worked with Viking (unloading and loading their trailers), and I had a good relationship with their drivers and the local customer service people--and this continued after FedEx took over. Most of my shipments were in the West, but from time to time I had one to New England.
Johnny
Thank you to all you folks who took time to respond to my questions about Railway Express. I would think that change said ( it is time to go).
Respectfully, Jim
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
To those interested in the fall of REA Express (nee: Railway Express Agency) the following link may be of interest: http://vlex.com/vid/airline-handlers-employes-rea-37635829
Linked is the text of arguments in Courts, and before the SCOTUS (Lawyers will enjoy it and others will find it hard to follow) It is a narrative of the arguments between the plaintiffs (various Union entities and Defendants over labor contract in force at the time [early 1970's +] :
Federal Circuits
Docket Number: 1220
Reporting Judge: 90 L.R.R.M. (BNA) 2579, 77 Lab.Cas. P 11,077
Read more: http://vlex.com/vid/airline-handlers-employes-rea-37635829#ixzz1DkowM2KR
In short, Railway Express was the result of the merging of many express companies from the 19th and 20th Centuries and was wholly owned by all participating railroad companies. The concept was to handle merchadise delivery for individuals and companies which were less than less than carload (LCL) but bigger than the United States Post Office would handle. It was not part of a railroad's freight service. Upon arrival the receiving agent would notify the recipient or consignee by phone or post card that it was at the Agency office to pick up; larger cities did have truck delivery from agency to consignee. As UPS and other services grew, with the ruling that these services could also handle correspondence (letters) which was the sole legal domain of the United States Post Office, and the demise of passenger services and open agencies, REX fell off. Managers bought the service from the railroads, called it REA Express but could not make a go of it in the face of a well run UPS and the emergence of air services which led to Fed Ex.
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