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Train aerodynamics

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, December 10, 2010 5:28 AM

Should we have 'Mythbusters' highlight the state of railroad aero?

Boyd

I think a model railroader with a fair amount of technical knowledge and a home built wind tunnel could do some tests of various types of model RR cars.

 

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Posted by erikem on Friday, December 10, 2010 12:52 AM

Boyd

I think a model railroader with a fair amount of technical knowledge and a home built wind tunnel could do some tests of various types of model RR cars.

As long as that modeler was conversant with the "Reynolds Number", i.e. the effects of turbulence don't necessarily scale well. Since aero drag is largely an issue of turbulence, this is not an inconsequential matter.

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Posted by Boyd on Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:54 PM

I think a model railroader with a fair amount of technical knowledge and a home built wind tunnel could do some tests of various types of model RR cars.

 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, December 9, 2010 11:37 AM

For what it's worth, one member - Tim O'Connor - of the "modelintermodal" group on Yahoo! posted the following yesterday evening about this:

"Railroads tested fuel efficiency years ago and found that trains of
plain old box cars are the most efficient by far, consuming less than
1/2 as much fuel as intermodal trains and even less than trains of
empty hopper cars, which use more than 50% as much as loaded hoppers
." 

Unfortunately, he didn't provide any further details, references, citations, etc. to support those assertions. 

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Posted by carnej1 on Thursday, December 9, 2010 11:23 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr

 oltmannd:

 Dakguy201: 
Many times when you see a container train, it will seem to consist of a few cars of single stack, followed by some double stacks, followed by more single stacks and so on.  Wouldn't it be much more fuel efficient to segregate the double stacks?  Obviously the carriers don't seem to think so.  Is the intercar spacing long enough that each doublestack is affected as if it were the only one in the train?       

The carrier DO think so....in a perfect world, that is how it would be.  But loading intermodal trains has more pragmatic considerations that take precedence over train aerodynamics.  Blocking and switching are the two biggies. 

 BaltACD:
  In today's railroad world, the loading and unloading of intermodal cars is rarely done by railroad employees, it is generally done by a hired contractor....the only thing the contractor is paid to care about is getting boxes on and off equipment and lining up the boxes on the right cars for the proper destination.  Location of single and double stacks in the tracks they are loading is the furthest thing from their mind. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[From here on down is PDN's post - this new editing and formatting 'dys-function' is a pain !!!]

Just when we (including me) might think that it's all settled and static and nothing's going to change:

Link to a blog post by Marc Gunther (a contributing editor to Fortune magazine) from yesterday, December 7, 2010 titled "The Power of One: Union Pacific" with a description and photos of how Mike Iden, UP's General Director of Car and Locomotive Engineering, and Wayne Kennedy of UP's "Continuous Improvement" group developed and are testing a wedge-shaped airfoil to take the place of the top first container behind the locomotives, to improve fuel performance:

(Thanks to Chris Butts of the "modelintermodal" group at yahoogroups.com for first posting the link to this !  Bow)

http://theenergycollective.com/marcgunther/48227/power-one-union-pacific 

An excerpt pertinent to the above, in that some problems may not be as big as they first seem:

"The fuel savings appeared to be meaningful, but a new problem arose. Says Mike: “The first questions that people in the company had was, why would we give up a revenue box on the train?” It turns out, though, that there’s often at least one empty container on a train, so if the cars could be arranged properly, the wedge would not displace a full container." [emphasis added - PDN] 

- Paul North. 

Interesting, kind of reminds me of the Aerodynamic shrouding on the early well cars operated by Espee (or was it ATSF).......

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, December 8, 2010 12:52 PM

oltmannd:

Dakguy201: 
Many times when you see a container train, it will seem to consist of a few cars of single stack, followed by some double stacks, followed by more single stacks and so on.  Wouldn't it be much more fuel efficient to segregate the double stacks?  Obviously the carriers don't seem to think so.  Is the intercar spacing long enough that each doublestack is affected as if it were the only one in the train?       

The carrier DO think so....in a perfect world, that is how it would be.  But loading intermodal trains has more pragmatic considerations that take precedence over train aerodynamics.  Blocking and switching are the two biggies. 

BaltACD
  In today's railroad world, the loading and unloading of intermodal cars is rarely done by railroad employees, it is generally done by a hired contractor....the only thing the contractor is paid to care about is getting boxes on and off equipment and lining up the boxes on the right cars for the proper destination.  Location of single and double stacks in the tracks they are loading is the furthest thing from their mind. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[From here on down is PDN's post - this new editing and formatting 'dys-function' is a pain !!!]

Just when we (including me) might think that it's all settled and static and nothing's going to change:

Link to a blog post by Marc Gunther (a contributing editor to Fortune magazine) from yesterday, December 7, 2010 titled "The Power of One: Union Pacific" with a description and photos of how Mike Iden, UP's General Director of Car and Locomotive Engineering, and Wayne Kennedy of UP's "Continuous Improvement" group developed and are testing a wedge-shaped airfoil to take the place of the top first container behind the locomotives, to improve fuel performance:

(Thanks to Chris Butts of the "modelintermodal" group at yahoogroups.com for first posting the link to this !  Bow)

http://theenergycollective.com/marcgunther/48227/power-one-union-pacific 

An excerpt pertinent to the above, in that some problems may not be as big as they first seem:

"The fuel savings appeared to be meaningful, but a new problem arose. Says Mike: “The first questions that people in the company had was, why would we give up a revenue box on the train?” It turns out, though, that there’s often at least one empty container on a train, so if the cars could be arranged properly, the wedge would not displace a full container." [emphasis added - PDN] 

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, December 7, 2010 3:12 PM

jeffhergert

 

 Paul_D_North_Jr:

 

 

 zardoz:
  [snip]  . . . I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest. 

 

I wonder what the "accelerometer" function in a modern locomotive's speedometer would show with such a train when hit by a sudden gust of wind.  In theory, it would register a slowdown of maybe a couple tenths of an MPH . . . That might be a good way to get a handle on the' real-life' significance of aerodynamics to freight trains.    

- Paul North. 

 

 

I've had many of those empty hopper trains across Iowa, too.  A bit longer now and usually with 2 engines.  Even so, the wind blowing hard affects the train.  More than once, I've noticed a change of up to 5 mph when going from the open areas (farmland with few trees) to more protected areas (towns/wooded non crop land). 

As I recall reading, the rounded corners did provide a very, very small fuel savings.  It wasn't enough though to offset the higher manufacturing costs for the rounded corners.

Jeff    

Jeff,

Yeah, you got them soon after I got rid of them at Yard 9 Proviso.  

Back in my day (gee, that sure makes me sound old), the coal trains came in from Clinton with three units, but one was always taken off at Proviso, so we had two SD40-2's on the northbound trains; needless to say we didn't set any speed records getting to Pleasant Prairie or Oak Creek (two units wasn't enough power to climb West Allis hill). But back then the CNW was a real stickler for isolating units. That was when the CNW installed those "fuel saver" switches on the 6800's and 6900's.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 7, 2010 2:03 PM

In today's railroad world, the loading and unloading of intermodal cars is rarely done by railroad employees, it is generally done by a hired contractor....the only thing the contractor is paid to care about is getting boxes on and off equipment and lining up the boxes on the right cars for the proper destination.  Location of single and double stacks in the tracks they are loading is the furthest thing from their mind.

oltmannd

 Dakguy201:


Many times when you see a container train, it will seem to consist of a few cars of single stack, followed by some double stacks, followed by more single stacks and so on.  Wouldn't it be much more fuel efficient to segregate the double stacks?  Obviously the carriers don't seem to think so.  Is the intercar spacing long enough that each doublestack is affected as if it were the only one in the train?       

 

The carrier DO think so....in a perfect world, that is how it would be.  But loading intermodal trains has more pragmatic considerations that take precedence over train aerodynamics.  Blocking and switching are the two biggies. 

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:28 AM

Dakguy201


Many times when you see a container train, it will seem to consist of a few cars of single stack, followed by some double stacks, followed by more single stacks and so on.  Wouldn't it be much more fuel efficient to segregate the double stacks?  Obviously the carriers don't seem to think so.  Is the intercar spacing long enough that each doublestack is affected as if it were the only one in the train?       

The carrier DO think so....in a perfect world, that is how it would be.  But loading intermodal trains has more pragmatic considerations that take precedence over train aerodynamics.  Blocking and switching are the two biggies. 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:10 AM


Many times when you see a container train, it will seem to consist of a few cars of single stack, followed by some double stacks, followed by more single stacks and so on.  Wouldn't it be much more fuel efficient to segregate the double stacks?  Obviously the carriers don't seem to think so.  Is the intercar spacing long enough that each doublestack is affected as if it were the only one in the train?       

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, December 6, 2010 12:09 PM

Thanks, jeff !  Bow  I had you in mind, hoping you'd be able to provide that data and those observations.  Thumbs Up  A 5 MPH change doesn't surprise me, such as when running into the teeth of 30 MPH gusts out of the northwest. 

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Posted by Boyd on Monday, December 6, 2010 12:07 PM

Aerodynamics starts to effect an automobile at about 40 mph. One government study in the 80s showed a significant fuel savings if semis drove 40 mph. Not to mention the effects of semis being on the road longer, clogging up lanes, adding costs, delaying deliveries and rotting food faster,,, which I think would cost more than the amount of fuel costs saved. Anyone on here ever driven a compact car down the highway and passed a cabover (flatnose) semi? You can really feel the air pushing the car to the side away from the semi.

I bet there could be a measured difference in fuel consumption of a 100 car mixed car type train going 40mph into a 30mph headwind compared to no wind at all.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 6, 2010 12:03 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

 zardoz:
  [snip]  . . . I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest. 

I wonder what the "accelerometer" function in a modern locomotive's speedometer would show with such a train when hit by a sudden gust of wind.  In theory, it would register a slowdown of maybe a couple tenths of an MPH . . . That might be a good way to get a handle on the' real-life' significance of aerodynamics to freight trains.    

- Paul North. 

I've had many of those empty hopper trains across Iowa, too.  A bit longer now and usually with 2 engines.  Even so, the wind blowing hard affects the train.  More than once, I've noticed a change of up to 5 mph when going from the open areas (farmland with few trees) to more protected areas (towns/wooded non crop land). 

As I recall reading, the rounded corners did provide a very, very small fuel savings.  It wasn't enough though to offset the higher manufacturing costs for the rounded corners.

Jeff    

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Posted by beaulieu on Monday, December 6, 2010 11:37 AM

The German Neubaustrecke with 300 kph top speeds are all slab track. Older Neubaustrecke and all Ausbaustrecke with 250 kph top speeds use concrete ties with ballast. The slab track has ballast shoulders, but the slab rests directly on the sub-grade, the shoulders are ballasted to control sideways movement and for drainage. Remember the HSR trainsets have fairly low axle loadings, and are relatively light in total weight.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, December 5, 2010 1:46 PM

samfp1943

 

   Cricketer, you mentioned that the German HSR's traveled on unballasted tracks ? How do they manage drainage within the track structures? 

I don't believe that is true.  HSR's in Germany (ICE's) largely run on right of way that has concrete sleepers on well-maintained stone ballast. Same for French TGVs and  Japanese Bullet trains: all run on ballast bound tracks.  Their way of avoiding the problem of stones being sucked up is having the underside of coaches enclosed and smooth and reducing the number of smaller loose stones in the track bed.  Concrete slab track beds are used on some stretches in Germany and quite heavily used in China.

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Posted by Cricketer on Sunday, December 5, 2010 12:55 PM

I'm afraid I don't know - sorry.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, December 5, 2010 11:31 AM

Cricketer

Wind resistance  increases with the square of the velocity, so when trains get quick aerodynamics start to matter, and really matter over 100mph. I'm afraid I don't know the formal symbols, but doing the maths is salutory. Imagine a train with a resistance of 2. Travelling at 50mph resistance is 2x50squared ie 5,000. At 100mph is 2x100squared ie 20,000. Double speed, quadruple resistance. At 125mph it's 2x125squared - 31,250. Add a quarter to the speed and resistance goes up by over half. At 200mph it's 2x200 squared - 80,000. So comparing 50mph with 200mph speed has quadrupled, wind resistance has increased sixteeen times.

Clearly one can shove vast amounts of horsepower at something and speed will increase, but at diminishing returns if aerodynamics aren't re-worked. Also while it's less important with trains than cars much of high speed car aerodynamics (eg Formula 1) is designed to keep the car down, ie on the road so the wheels can transmit energy from engine to road. 

One further point is that all aerodynamics need to be catered for - pressure sealing vehicles so that they can pass in tunnnels without truly horrible pressure waves. 125mph (ie 250mph closing speed) is about as quick as unsealed trains can pass in a tunnel, and even then passengers will notice their ears popping. Some of the German high speed lines have especially wide tunnel mouths to try allow air to escape as a train enters them.

All aerodynamics also means the bottom of the train - really high speeds can generate forces big enough to move ballast, and stones hitting metal at 200mph is not welcomed. Caused a problem with German high speed trains on French high-speed lines. The latter are ballasted, the German high speed lines have concrete track formations with no ballast.

My conclusion is that even if you could put enough grunt in front of a superliner (which would need an electric engine) redesign would be needed.

   Having never experienced European HSR, I had never given the effect of the ballast being sucked up, much thought, but I have experienced a somewhat similar experience a couple of times while fishing. The IC RR thoughtfully provided a raised,dry ROW through a swampy area in North Mississippi to fish from ( those were a lot simpler times). 

   Late at night the Panama would come through at a terrible speed and we would be pelted with rocks. We always suspected it was people on the train throwing them ( too you to realize what was happening!) . One could also see the trash swirling in the air as one of the IC passenger trains would go through the local communities (this was when the ICRR was truly the"Mainline of Mid America", and it was really well maintained, double tracked) .

   Cricketer, you mentioned that the German HSR's traveled on unballasted tracks ? How do they manage drainage within the track structures? 

 

 


 

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Posted by erikem on Sunday, December 5, 2010 11:17 AM

Cricketer

Wind resistance  increases with the square of the velocity, so when trains get quick aerodynamics start to matter, and really matter over 100mph. I'm afraid I don't know the formal symbols, but doing the maths is salutory. Imagine a train with a resistance of 2. Travelling at 50mph resistance is 2x50squared ie 5,000. At 100mph is 2x100squared ie 20,000. Double speed, quadruple resistance. At 125mph it's 2x125squared - 31,250. Add a quarter to the speed and resistance goes up by over half. At 200mph it's 2x200 squared - 80,000. So comparing 50mph with 200mph speed has quadrupled, wind resistance has increased sixteeen times.

Also recall that the power required to generate a given tractive effort scales with speed, so quadrupling speed will increase the amount of power to overcome aero drag by a factor of 64. IIRC, aero drag is just starting to become significant with American passenger equipment at around 50 MPH.

FWIW, the earliest UP streamliners had smooth bottoms, but the increase in maintenance costs outweighed fuel savings. These were not particularly high speed trains.

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Posted by Cricketer on Sunday, December 5, 2010 3:57 AM

Wind resistance  increases with the square of the velocity, so when trains get quick aerodynamics start to matter, and really matter over 100mph. I'm afraid I don't know the formal symbols, but doing the maths is salutory. Imagine a train with a resistance of 2. Travelling at 50mph resistance is 2x50squared ie 5,000. At 100mph is 2x100squared ie 20,000. Double speed, quadruple resistance. At 125mph it's 2x125squared - 31,250. Add a quarter to the speed and resistance goes up by over half. At 200mph it's 2x200 squared - 80,000. So comparing 50mph with 200mph speed has quadrupled, wind resistance has increased sixteeen times.

Clearly one can shove vast amounts of horsepower at something and speed will increase, but at diminishing returns if aerodynamics aren't re-worked. Also while it's less important with trains than cars much of high speed car aerodynamics (eg Formula 1) is designed to keep the car down, ie on the road so the wheels can transmit energy from engine to road. 

One further point is that all aerodynamics need to be catered for - pressure sealing vehicles so that they can pass in tunnnels without truly horrible pressure waves. 125mph (ie 250mph closing speed) is about as quick as unsealed trains can pass in a tunnel, and even then passengers will notice their ears popping. Some of the German high speed lines have especially wide tunnel mouths to try allow air to escape as a train enters them.

All aerodymics also means the bottom of the train - really high speeds can generate forces big enough to move ballast, and stones hitting metal at 200mph is not welcomed. Caused a problem with German high speed trains on French high-speed lines. The latter are ballasted, the German high speed lines have concrete track formations with no ballast.

My conclusion is that even if you could put enough grunt in front of a superliner (which would need an electric engine) redesign would be needed.

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Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Sunday, December 5, 2010 2:47 AM

This touches on a question that has always been in the back of my mind regarding Superliner equipment. Recalling that, after some early experimantation with lower slung and articulated, streamlined passenger equipment (M-10000, Pioneer Zephyr, Land O' Corn, etc.) higher speeds of the 30's and 40's were frequently attained with non-steamlined equipment in consists or (as in the case of the early 400's) none at all.

So, aside from the design of the locomotive such as on French, Chinese and other HSR trainsets is there any particular aerodynamic problem with operating Superliners at HSR (180-200mph+) speeds? Or would it pay to redesign from the rail up?

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, December 4, 2010 8:51 PM

zardoz
  [snip]  . . . I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest. 

I wonder what the "accelerometer" function in a modern locomotive's speedometer would show with such a train when hit by a sudden gust of wind.  In theory, it would register a slowdown of maybe a couple tenths of an MPH . . . That might be a good way to get a handle on the' real-life' significance of aerodynamics to freight trains.    

- Paul North. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, December 4, 2010 7:10 PM

zardoz

 Murphy Siding:

 Does train aerodynamics have a big effect on locomotive performance?  I thought a moving vehicle had to be moving somewhat over 100 m.p.h., before aerodynamics made much difference in performance?

I'm not sure if this addresses your question, but I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest.

Yes, just think of the turbulence generated by each empty and add it all together to attain a lot of drag.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, December 4, 2010 7:10 PM

zardoz

 Murphy Siding:

 Does train aerodynamics have a big effect on locomotive performance?  I thought a moving vehicle had to be moving somewhat over 100 m.p.h., before aerodynamics made much difference in performance?

I'm not sure if this addresses your question, but I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest.

Yes, just think of the turbulence generated by each empty and add it all together to attain a lot of drag.

Johnny

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Posted by rixflix on Saturday, December 4, 2010 6:49 PM

Rounded  hood corners weren't for aerodynamics, but surely helped to make a lot of railfans love the Alco RSI-2-3's. Along with their cleaner looking trucks, smokier exhausts, and burbling/galloping/comforting  sound at rest, they were more friendly or even cuddlier to be with. Baldwin did a litle of the same thing on it' AS's, 

FM trainmasters were ugly here on  the Reading.

As a child, the only EMD geep I liked   was the American Flyer one  with the wire couplers. It could pull the whole yard or the paper off the walls.

Wow, cuddly  for a locomotive, and now there's Thomas and friends.

RIX 

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Posted by zardoz on Saturday, December 4, 2010 6:34 PM

Murphy Siding

 Does train aerodynamics have a big effect on locomotive performance?  I thought a moving vehicle had to be moving somewhat over 100 m.p.h., before aerodynamics made much difference in performance?

I'm not sure if this addresses your question, but I remember running empty 112-car coal trains that would not get much above 35mph with only one SD40-2 locomotive, even though the train weighed only 3500 tons.  All the empty hoppers acted like parachutes. I would guess the same (but to a smaller degree) would apply to a train of empty bulkhead flats. I would also guess that aerodynamics would be much more of a factor on IM trains rather than on a manifest.
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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, December 4, 2010 4:04 PM

I too used to lament about how all the art deco era E-8s and F-7s were more streamlined than  later GP and SD offerings.

 

But, if you position yourself above locos like the GP 7, etc, you can see that they are streamlined, like a wedge splitting the air in front of them.

 

Look at the leading edge of this one, as an example:

 

 

Perhaps not as pretty as a covered wagon, but still "streamlined" to a degree

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, December 4, 2010 3:13 PM

BatACD mentioned the aerodynamic of the trucking industry and how they have advanced aiding particularly, fuel consumption.. Kind of like Norm48327's knowledge of aircraft and the involvement of aerodynamics of airplanes.

     I was involvd with trucks, and in and out of the trucking industry for about thirty years. 

     In 1985 the Kenworth Truck Co, introduced the fist truck that specifically advertised  added  fuel mileage in a 'somewhat' aerodynamically designed cab the 1985 T600 called " Ant Eater' as a term endearment or derision; depending on one's involvement ( owner or driver or by-stander).  Prior to that as BaltACD mentioned aerodynamics were pretty much generally confined to any number of cab mounted fairings or fairings  systems.

    Kenworth and Pete and International and some of the other manufacturers utilized big wide fronts to house larger horsepower engines in their trucks. Big wide nosed Marmon's, and Autocar's were noted for huge, wide-nosed chrome radiators and the  fronts that housed them.

    There were limited experiments with inflatables (as on the rear of the trailer- a sort of a boat tail effect), and all manner of fairings between the cab, and trailer; as well as under trailer mounted fairing systems).

    Strick Trailer Co even fielded an experiment utilizing a cab-under trailer for use on doubles. More for length, but applicable to  aerodynamics also.

    American railroads have seemed to get away from any interest in aerodynamics. ASince the advent and later demise of long distance passenger equipment that was "Streamlined"and the locomotives designed to pull them; all seemed more designed for the sleek look provided.                                 Rather than aerodynamics, which was at the least a small, unharalded gift to their operating railroad.

    The 'Geep'  put the knife ina any nod to aerodynamics.  Fuel efficiency has been attacked by locomotive builders through their power rather than through their car bodies.

   TRAINS   did have a picture at one point. I think it was in a special edition of the Locomotive series of a BNSF unit on the Southern Transcon that  had had anemometer on the front corner of the cab.  That was never explained as to what was being tested.  Basically the railroads use raw horsepower to muscle their trains over their systems.  Aerodynamics seems to have no place on the modern American system.

   I think, in Europe,aerodynamics is a bigger consideration. In videos, of European Operations, you see close- coupled, short trains of a very similar profile ( particularly with higher container style cars and  boxes). 

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, December 4, 2010 2:01 PM

Murphy,

I was an aircraft mechanic for the last thirty years of my working life so I think I have a handle on aerodynamics.

Airplanes are designed to have proper airflow around the wings to develop lift and to smooth the flow over the fuselage.

Trains are not designed with consideration of airflow. Depending on the consist they may be dragging many 'barn doors' against prevailing winds. Flat cars are not much of a consideration, but cars of height and square ends can surely cause more drag at higher speeds.

As far as aerodynamics are concerned rounded corners on locomotives are of little help. That may not apply to passenger trains where all cars are closely coupled.

Norm


  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 4, 2010 10:12 AM

If my memory serves me right, only the 60-series demos (GP59, GP60, SD60) were the only ones that had the rounded edges on the cab.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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