I just read in the railroad news section of this site that Ohio's Governor elect just had a new conference today and announced that the proposed passenger service linking Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati "is dead". Well, when the time comes for his next campaign I hope the voters remember how the traffic is and how long and tiring the drive is down I-71 from Cleveland to Cinc.
Hopefully they'll shut down the Northeast Corridor next. The traffic on I-95 says that American the people do not want passenger trains. I'm still surprised taxpayers are still bing brainwashed into endorsing and funding money losing mass transit agencies... which is all them. If it can't make money it shouldn't run. Tell the those losers to get a job, buy an American car and drive. I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness.
The Noretheast corridor is one of very few routes that DOES make money. That is one reason that Amtrak spend all that money to remove grade crossings and rebuild a couple of bridges.
MerrilyWeRollAlong If it can't make money it shouldn't run.
Well, there go the airports, seaports, and highways. How's your horse and buggy holding up?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Under what circumstances can several hours of freeway navigation be productive, in a business way? Have you traveled the NEC? I do, between NY, Philly, and WashDC on biz and don't see many "lazy people". I see many biz passengers like me, working continuously while en route. Yes, there are some passengers sleeping or reading, but, particularly on the Acela trains, they are the minority. And, if biz folk, they'll be awake and refreshed, not stressed, at the other end. Frequent and relevant corridor service is a productivity enhancer, thereby boosting our economy. I'll agree that corridors with cities lacking the public transport infrastructure of the east coast might not work as efficiently, since so many biz venues are away from the train corridors. OTOH, car-sharing (ZIPcars) and other innovations may make such distinctions less relevant in the future. If the demand appears to be there, the infrastructure to facilitate terminal-proximate transportation is in place, new services are worth a try, with a firm success/failure date.
tree68 MerrilyWeRollAlong: If it can't make money it shouldn't run. Well, there go the airports, seaports, and highways. How's your horse and buggy holding up?
MerrilyWeRollAlong: If it can't make money it shouldn't run.
Maybe the AMISH have something?
we had red devils running from cincy to lake erie but we gave that up for automobiles.when would the system hook into nw ohio? it's a real political circus here in ohio.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
MerrilyWeRollAlong I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness. [my emphasis]
I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness. [my emphasis]
I guess you don't want your precious tax dollars being used to educate people on such matters as correct grammar.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
tree68 Well, there go the airports, seaports, and highways. How's your horse and buggy holding up?
Larry, best quote I have seen on this board in a long-time. My sentiments exactly. Let the trolls merrily roll along behind their horse and buggy and see how long they last.
Murray schlimm: MerrilyWeRollAlong: I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness. [my emphasis] I guess you don't want your precious tax dollars being used to educate people on such matters as correct grammar. Careful Professor...your tenure is showing.
schlimm: MerrilyWeRollAlong: I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness. [my emphasis] I guess you don't want your precious tax dollars being used to educate people on such matters as correct grammar.
MerrilyWeRollAlong: I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness. [my emphasis]
Careful Professor...your tenure is showing.
You sure that is not his Webster's Primer?
Whenever a rail project is proposed in a state...the first line of the 'anti' defense is that it won't serve every Podunk point in the state on day one therefore it has no economic value to anyone.
and the dummies fall for it most of the time.
US transportation policy is a circus, unfortunately it is a Clown Circus with no star quality acts.
JoeKoh we had red devils running from cincy to lake erie but we gave that up for automobiles.when would the system hook into nw ohio? it's a real political circus here in ohio. stay safe joe
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
MerrilyWeRollAlong Hopefully they'll shut down the Northeast Corridor next. The traffic on I-95 says that American the people do not want passenger trains. I'm still surprised taxpayers are still bing brainwashed into endorsing and funding money losing mass transit agencies... which is all them. If it can't make money it shouldn't run. Tell the those losers to get a job, buy an American car and drive. I'm sick and tired of my taxes being used to pay for ways for people to be laziness.
Now that's rich. A person from NY,NY saying that all mass transit that doesn't make a profit should be shut down.
Perhaps that would be a great example for the anti mass transit people. Let's shut down the NE Corridor and all the mass transit in the NYC area for 30 days and watch civilization as they know it collapse.
NYC and all it's suburbs would be paralyzed.
Mass transit does not exist there because of the economic and population density. The economic and population density exists there because of the well developed mass transit system.
I want to watch the 7 million people who ride the NYC subway every day try to drive to their jobs. Then we can throw in the bus passengers. I want to watch all the people who ride NJT into and out of NYC arrive at the bridges and tunnels in their cars. Then I want to watch them look for a place to park. I want to watch the gridlock as the people who ride the NE Corridor try to drive instead. We don't even need to worry about the environmental impact, because there just isn't room for all those additional cars.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
In order to compete with the third world, our economy is evolving into a lean, mean, just-in-time model. We are also being asked to embrace a new frugality as part of the sustainability movement, and as an acknowledgement that the U.S. has consumed more than its fair share, and must make amends. Frugality = green = hip.
Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past.
Bucyrus Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past.
And all that is made possible because we don't manufacture much anymore.
The flip side of that "work from wherever you reside" model, is it makes it even easier to hire someone off shore to do YOUR job.
New York...
Sarcasm?
I should bloody well hope so.
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Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
But Gentlemen. It ain't over till its over. I feel this thread and others are making pronouncements that will probably be true but actions are not set in stone yet. ie Amtrak, ARC, Ohio, Wisconsin, California, Fla, etc. Let us not jump to hasty conclusions. Be cautious please.
Phoebe Vet Bucyrus: Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past. And all that is made possible because we don't manufacture much anymore. The flip side of that "work from wherever you reside" model, is it makes it even easier to hire someone off shore to do YOUR job.
Bucyrus: Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past.
Exactly. If you can do your job from your desk at home, someone overseas can do it now for less money. At the rate and on the course we are going, it will come full circle, but at a terrible price exacted from our people (though the corporations will still find ways to make money).
And to Murray and RRKen, using correct grammar is something a 7th grader should know (or if you know how to use a word processor). A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments.
Me fail English? But that's unpossible!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
"Ohio passenger rail service killed by Governor elect".
Get used to the above statement with the direction we're heading now.
....And in other actions we'll be seeing soon.......
China and others are surging ahead. With the above attitude, we'll start surging back to the stone age....!
Quentin
Yes that is very true, but my point was that the act of commuting will be declining, no matter whether is it due to jobs going to the third world, or to telecommuting in order to compete with the third world. Either way, there will be a lot more room on our highways.
Bucyrus Yes that is very true, but my point was that the act of commuting will be declining, no matter whether is it due to jobs going to the third world, or to telecommuting in order to compete with the third world. Either way, there will be a lot more room on our highways.
I don't know about where you live, but here in Charlotte, despite the loss of thousands of banking jobs, our traffic is continuing to get worse. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for "a lot more room on our highways".
And then we have the corresponding fairy tale that Charter Schools are the answer?
Education is much more than throwing money at the issue...it is much more than decrying the teacher's unions. Education begins at home....with mom and dad....when they forefit their responsibilities and dump their off spring on the school systems and then expect the school system to pick up the slack from their 6 years, the most important years, of neglect....what do you expect the outcome to be?
Murray schlimm: A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments. Right Professor...Thats why you are "protected" under tenure. You can do anything you want and your job is safe. The students, unfortunatley are condemned to your poor educating. Please...tell us another fairy tale.
schlimm: A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments.
Right Professor...Thats why you are "protected" under tenure. You can do anything you want and your job is safe. The students, unfortunatley are condemned to your poor educating.
Please...tell us another fairy tale.
schlimm Bucyrus: Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past. And to Murray and RRKen, using correct grammar is something a 7th grader should know (or if you know how to use a word processor). A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments.
Bucyrus: Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past. And to Murray and RRKen, using correct grammar is something a 7th grader should know (or if you know how to use a word processor). A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments.
Taken all together, the U.S. economy cannot afford the extravagance of driving off to a job every day unless it is a construction job or something else that requires workers to be on site. Ten years from now, most work will be networked, and most commuting to a workplace destination will be an artifact of the past. And to Murray and RRKen, using correct grammar is something a 7th grader should know (or if you know how to use a word processor). A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments.
I do not spend time correcting others because quite honestly, those who can read and understand, can see for themselves the errors others make. And for the record, from time to tome, I use the built-in correction programs, but I learned more to rely upon the 1928 Funk & Wagnalls on my desk (which sits upon the Roget's).
To the matter at hand. In a mere 4 decades, we have seen the decline of the Standard of Living in the U.S. through the loss of manufacturing jobs. We used to make things, and ideas. But, there were those who wanted cheap, for example, the Japanese transister radio. Thus, it was the U.S. Consumer. In order to compete, companies needed to reduce cost, moving jobs, and reducing payroll. Now families need more than one income to survive. Today, we commute farther, for less pay, than our parents. And in the mean time, there are still companies out there trying to compete with third world countries, and their dirt poor standards of living. Where on earth did people think that would end?
The same holds true with a Government's budget. For a very long time now, those policy makers have taxed to the max, then decided to hide more taxes under the guise of "user fees". Taxpayers no longer find it funny. How much further do those policy makers think they can continue to squeeze us?
It is not time to expand when you cannot afford it. Sure, corporations like Union Pacific can. But the fundamental difference is, it is private money, not taxpayers. I take risks, I darned well expect some return if it works out. A taxpayer however has no choice, she or he must pay taxes, including covering losses when a Government fails. At least with stocks, the company fails, I loose only what I invested.
That is why, if they do not have the money for that project today, sit on it til you can afford it. Taxpayers are already feeling too far squeezed.
Murray schlimm: A decent education is one of the resources that used to make this country great. But many of you don't want to pay for anything done by your governments. Right Professor...Thats why you are "protected" under tenure. You can do anything you want and your job is safe. The students, unfortunately are condemned to your poor educating. Please...tell us another fairy tale.
Right Professor...Thats why you are "protected" under tenure. You can do anything you want and your job is safe. The students, unfortunately are condemned to your poor educating.
Two cases. One Prof. Churchill of Colorado. Enough said! The other, an instructor at the local Community College, a brilliant man, taught by an equally brillilant, effective, and passionate teacher. Many knew him here. Neither of the latter rested upon their laurals, and kept up with the real world.
I would take a million of the latter in our education system, and none of the former.
RRKen To the matter at hand. In a mere 4 decades, we have seen the decline of the Standard of Living in the U.S. through the loss of manufacturing jobs. We used to make things, and ideas. But, there were those who wanted cheap, for example, the Japanese transister radio. Thus, it was the U.S. Consumer. In order to compete, companies needed to reduce cost, moving jobs, and reducing payroll. Now families need more than one income to survive. Today, we commute farther, for less pay, than our parents. And in the mean time, there are still companies out there trying to compete with third world countries, and their dirt poor standards of living. Where on earth did people think that would end?
You'd be surprised how much I agree with much of what you said above. I am not so sure, though, that we should blame it all on the consumer. Perhaps we should also look at corporations and "Free Trade." When Ross Perot ran for president in 1992, a lot of people laughed (although a lot voted for him: 18.9% of the popular vote) when he talked about that "sucking sound of American jobs heading south to Mexico." As it turned out, things got much worse with Clinton's signing into law on October 10, 2000, permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) with China and admission to WTO.
In any case, we don't make much, relying on a consumer goods society that consists heavily of imported goods. Who benefits? The consumer gets cheap goods (for now). Logistics? Sure does. American workers? Not so much.
RRKen It is not time to expand when you cannot afford it. Sure, corporations like Union Pacific can. But the fundamental difference is, it is private money, not taxpayers. I take risks, I darned well expect some return if it works out. A taxpayer however has no choice, she or he must pay taxes, including covering losses when a Government fails. At least with stocks, the company fails, I loose only what I invested. That is why, if they do not have the money for that project today, sit on it til you can afford it. Taxpayers are already feeling too far squeezed.
But we are being told at the national level that borrowing money and spending it when you can’t afford it is precisely the right thing to do because doing so brings prosperity. It is the magic cornucopia of Keynesian economics.
It's not a simple black and white issue.
If you are deep in debt and struggling and your car, the one you need to get to work, dies. Do you say "I can't afford any more debt, so I will just not go to work and hope the car heals? Or do you suck it up and incur a little more debt to fix the car so you can still get to work?
The real question is do you replace the car, which would be a lot more debt, or do you do the cheapest repair possible to minimize the debt while still investing in the car repair.
A responsible person does the cheaper repair. A person who chooses no more debt is just as irresponsible as the one who chooses to buy a new car.
Phoebe Vet It's not a simple black and white issue. If you are deep in debt and struggling and your car, the one you need to get to work, dies. Do you say "I can't afford any more debt, so I will just not go to work and hope the car heals? Or do you suck it up and incur a little more debt to fix the car so you can still get to work? The real question is do you replace the car, which would be a lot more debt, or do you do the cheapest repair possible to minimize the debt while still investing in the car repair. A responsible person does the cheaper repair. A person who chooses no more debt is just as irresponsible as the one who chooses to buy a new car.
Well yes, I agree with your car example and its context. Spending a little money in order to make money, when you are short of money is often the wisest course of action. But that is not what Keynesian economics is as it pertains to our economic stimulus policy.
The analogy to our economic stimulus policy would be like this: You don’t have much money, and your car needs be replaced so you can go to work and make more money. So you somehow get the credit to buy the most expensive car you can find, and that transaction makes you so wealthy that you don’t have to work. So you take an expensive vacation and get even wealthier.
Bucyrus: Don't take this personally, but I really don't think Mr. Keynes' ideas are nearly as discredited as you portray them. Although Friedman, Hayek, von Mises and others from the Austrian School reigned supreme in the 1980's into the new century, Keynesian economics has had a considerable resurgence in recent years. And perhaps without the help of some of the elements of Keynesian economics, recovery from the Great Depression may have never occurred, notwithstanding the views of revisionists.
Maybe we cannot as a nation afford to rebuild infrastructure, reconstruct a failing educational system, get a manufacturing economy restored, etc., but then again, maybe we cannot afford NOT TO. Who knows, but the 'live for today' 'let's have a party, the h*ll with tomorrow' philosophy of the past 40 years seems to have come to a dead end.
Many people believe in Keynesian economic theory. Every bit of Keynesian stimulus has the side effect of growing government, no matter whether it works or not to stimulate the economy. So government loves it, embraces it, believes in it, and preaches it. That’s a big faction of Keynesian boosters even if nobody else believed it.
I only judge it by how it is defined. In scientific, economic terms, it seems like nonsense to me. We are presently conducting the largest-ever practical test of the validity of Keynesian theory. But even if it fails, I doubt that the boosters will admit failure. Most of them have a vested interest in the practical application of the theory whether it works or not.
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