Hi, I have three questions regarding train crews. First, what is the difference between a crew caller and crew dispatcher or are they one in the same? Second what exactly is a pool crew? Finally how often do trains have to change crews? Please let me know thank you.
First question,
Not much difference, same job, slightly different title.
Second question,
Pool crew, a large group of T&E employees that work on a first in first out system, basically the first guys rested after their last trip are the first guys called for a train, any train.
This can have some variations from division to division, terminal to terminal on each railroad.
There is a call board for engineers, conductors and one for brakemen, so you may end up working with a different couple of guys every day, then again, you may end up with the same guys for a few days in a row.
Third question,
Trains don't have to change crews, crews run out of time to work at 12 hours under the hours of service law, so there is no standard number of crews a train has to use, it depended totally on where it originates, where it terminates and how long it takes to get the train for one to the other.
Lots of different actions, like rail traffic congestion, weather and what type of train it is can affect how many crews it takes to complete the run.
Which is why you can find some low priority trains parked in a siding, waiting for a rested crew to cab out to it while high priority trains normally have crews called and waiting for it at a pre designated spot or terminal.
23 17 46 11
On the BNSF Transcon, for example from Clovis, NM to Barstow, CA, the train crews are two person and have the following terminals over which they operate:
Clovis to Belen; Belen to Winslow; Winslow to Needles and Needles to Barstow.
Unless they are delayed, for what can be several reasons, each two person crew completes their run between those terminals; then rests and then makes a return run to the other terminal.
If the 12 hour law comes into play a second crew is taxied to where ever.they had to stop and that crew completes the run to the designated terminal. The taxi which brought out the second crew picks up the original crew and takes them to the terminal where they rest until called again.
Normally a Pool Freight crew (Conductor, Engineer, and possibly Brakeman / men) is an assigned crew. That is: Tom, Dick, and Harry are assigned to pool crew #1. Frank, Bill, and Bob are assigned to pool crew #2. etc. The crew works "first in - first out" from their terminal. So normally Tom, Dick, and, Harry will always be working on the same train. Any individual member may 'BID OFF' to some other crew in the same pool or any other job assignment he is quailfied for and has seniority to hold.
The EXTRA BOARD is mintained separately (one for Engineers, one for Conductors, and one for Trainmen). These people are call as individuals to fill whatever assignments are temporarily vacant for any number of reasons. An individual Brakeman for example, may be called to go with pool crew #1 (Tom, Dick, and Extra Man) because Harry is laid off sick, or on vacation, or off for any number of reasons. The Extra Boards are also called on a first in - first out basis.
diningcar On the BNSF Transcon, for example from Clovis, NM to Barstow, CA, the train crews are two person and have the following terminals over which they operate: Clovis to Belen; Belen to Winslow; Winslow to Needles and Needles to Barstow. Unless they are delayed, for what can be several reasons, each two person crew completes their run between those terminals; then rests and then makes a return run to the other terminal. If the 12 hour law comes into play a second crew is taxied to where ever.they had to stop and that crew completes the run to the designated terminal. The taxi which brought out the second crew picks up the original crew and takes them to the terminal where they rest until called again.
This makes me wonder: 1. So a crew is on for 12 hours - is that 12 hours from the time they show up at their respective yard office, or 12 hours from the time they actually get into and start operating a locomotive?
2. So a van picks them up at the end of the 12 hours. Let's say it takes the van an hour to drive to wherever the crew's cars are parked so they can go home, or to their hotel. Does the crew get paid for that 13th hour?
Most of the time a crew is called for a specific time at a specific point, the clock starts at the time they are called for, say 06:30...they can wait at the crew change point and are on the clock, which runs the 12 hours...after 12 hours, you may perform no service to or for the carrier.
Using your example, lets say I ran out of time, and had to wait 30 minutes for the cab to reach the locomotive, then had a hour drive to the tie up point, the carrier has to pay me deadhead pay for that 1 ½ hour.
I am not even allowed to tie up in the time clock computer, I have to wait till the beginning of my next shift to tie up for the day before.
Back when the UP had Houston tied all in knots, I remember seeing lots of their crews cab over to our yard office, and simply sit there for 12 hours, never even getting on a locomotive, then taxing back to Englewood.
And UP or BNSF crews would get on a outbound train, never get the signal out of the yard, and die on the hours of service sitting in the same spot they started at....
edblysard Most of the time a crew is called for a specific time at a specific point, the clock starts at the time they are called for, say 06:30...they can wait at the crew change point and are on the clock, which runs the 12 hours...after 12 hours, you may perform no service to or for the carrier. Using your example, lets say I ran out of time, and had to wait 30 minutes for the cab to reach the locomotive, then had a hour drive to the tie up point, the carrier has to pay me deadhead pay for that 1 ½ hour. I am not even allowed to tie up in the time clock computer, I have to wait till the beginning of my next shift to tie up for the day before. Back when the UP had Houston tied all in knots, I remember seeing lots of their crews cab over to our yard office, and simply sit there for 12 hours, never even getting on a locomotive, then taxing back to Englewood. And UP or BNSF crews would get on a outbound train, never get the signal out of the yard, and die on the hours of service sitting in the same spot they started at....
The story reminds me of a quote I once heard a trainman say: "This is a very easy job, not much we actually have to do, but the reason we make the big bucks is because the work times are all over the place and we have no life as a result. We get paid for inconvenience."
railfanjohn Pool crew, a large group of T&E employees that work on a first in first out system, basically the first guys rested after their last trip are the first guys called for a train, any train. This can have some variations from division to division, terminal to terminal on each railroad. There is a call board for engineers, conductors and one for brakemen, so you may end up working with a different couple of guys every day, then again, you may end up with the same guys for a few days in a row. Normally a Pool Freight crew (Conductor, Engineer, and possibly Brakeman / men) is an assigned crew. That is: Tom, Dick, and Harry are assigned to pool crew #1. Frank, Bill, and Bob are assigned to pool crew #2. etc. The crew works "first in - first out" from their terminal. So normally Tom, Dick, and, Harry will always be working on the same train. Any individual member may 'BID OFF' to some other crew in the same pool or any other job assignment he is quailfied for and has seniority to hold. The EXTRA BOARD is mintained separately (one for Engineers, one for Conductors, and one for Trainmen). These people are call as individuals to fill whatever assignments are temporarily vacant for any number of reasons. An individual Brakeman for example, may be called to go with pool crew #1 (Tom, Dick, and Extra Man) because Harry is laid off sick, or on vacation, or off for any number of reasons. The Extra Boards are also called on a first in - first out basis.
Most places have a separate pool board for enginemen and trainmen. The enginemen's pool board would have turns that consist of an engineer and fireman. Of course, except for training purposes almost all fireman's position are blanked out.
The trainmen's pool turn will consist of the conductor and a brakeman. Again, most places probably have the brakeman's position blanked out.
Depending on the number of turns in each pool, the engineer and conductor may work together every trip. Some places will have the same number of turns in both pools, some don't. One of the pools may cover a couple of routes while the other dosen't. Out main line condr's pool can work east or west, while our main line engr pools are separate, one east one west. You may work with the same person a few trips in a row, then not work with them again for months.
The pools and extra board may, or may not work first in-first out. I'd guess many, if not most do but there are pools that are "blueprinted" on one or both ends. Our east-west condr's pool and both the east and west engr pools are blueprinted at the away from home terminal. This means we will be called out of the AFHT in the same order we were called out of the home terminal, no matter what our arrival time at the AFHT. Arrival time, not rested time determine position on the board. The only way you go out of order when blueprinted is if the first out crew isn't rested. The first rested crew may then be called without penalty.
There are some extra boards that work by seniority. I think one of our outlying terminals has their switchmen's extra board this way. I've heard them called a "hog" board but may go by other names.
Because of the way the pools work, one turn following another no matter if 1st in-1st out or blueprint, it's known someplaces as working the "chain gang." Around the Rock Island people I knew growing up and some I talk to now, chain gang was popular. I don't think I've heard it used by the exCNW guys I work with. Either the term wasn't used here or it's fallen out of use. I guess I'll have to remember to ask about it.
Jeff
Does anyone know : Do they count break or off hours in the 12 hours on? For example, my crews are called in to be in the yard 2-3 hrs before the train pulls out. Does that time count toward the 12 hours, I imagine. How about if your first run takes say 4 hrs, then you have a 3 hr break before your next run, how is it counted? ( I'm new & trying to learn all this-- thx)
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
The clock starts ticking at the crews designated On Duty Time. Crew will be called at 0430 (or thereabouts) to be On Duty at their starting point at 0630. Being On Duty at 0630 the crew would go on HOS at 1830. The curve-ball can be thrown into this operation by giving the crew a 'respite', wherein the crew, after going On Duty, at some point during that tour of duty is given 4 or more hours rest at a designated lodging facility...that rest period stopped the HOS clock at the time the crew marked off and began the 4 or more hours rest, the clock restarts from that point and continues to the 12 hour mark of being actually on duty.
Example -
On Duty - 0630 and work until 1030 - 4 hours actually worked
Off Duty 1030 until 1430 - 4 hours rest
On Duty 1430 until 2230 - The Hours of Service catches this crew at 2230.
The mid tour rest period must be AT LEAST 4 hours to stop the HOS clock. If a crew is only given a 3 hour rest period the clock runs continuous from the original on duty time and the crew would go HOS at 1830.
The rest period must be at a designated Rest facility....not on the train in the middle of nowhere, or at a yard office or similar location. The rest period can be for more than 4 hours; if the rest period ends up being as long as the legally required rest period, then the crew, upon coming back on duty would have their full 12 hours to work.
WMNB4THRTL Does anyone know : Do they count break or off hours in the 12 hours on? For example, my crews are called in to be in the yard 2-3 hrs before the train pulls out. Does that time count toward the 12 hours, I imagine. How about if your first run takes say 4 hrs, then you have a 3 hr break before your next run, how is it counted? ( I'm new & trying to learn all this-- thx)
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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