As someone who comes from the small town of McCalla, AL I am getting to see first hand at what people will do to stop a railroad from building and improving. Trains actually did a pretty good job of covering the story here in the paragraph in that article. At one point, things here actually got pretty heated here over the new Intermodal hub NS is building here. For example, one of the people that sold their property to NS (and had the largest part of land in the proposed site), their hay fields somehow were set on fire.
In my case here, its the ones that live the furthest away from the site that have the loudest voices of opposition.
So with all of that said, just like the title here, what have NIMBY's done in opposition in your town?
It's not rail-related, but there has been substantial opposition to wind power in this area - mostly by the 'summer people,' not the locals.
Ironically, many of those people have property facing the St Lawrence River or Lake Ontario - the proposed wind farm would be behind them as they gazed at their scenic view. Even more ironic is the wind farm that was constructed across the river on Canadian soil, and directly in their scenic view...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Sounds like there is some just plain old small town jealously in McCalla, Alabama. They don't want anyone else to make money.
Several years ago a regional garbage landfill was built near Minot, North Dakota. Once it was up and going, the protesters came out of the woodwork.
It turned out most of the protest leaders had applied for jobs, but didn't get hired.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Here in southern California, my favorite NIMBY story doesn't involve the rails either.
Back around the 1970s, a lot of new tract homes got built in the flight path of the El Toro Marine Corps Air Station. Until the base recently closed, some of the people who had bought there had the gall to complain about jet noise!
Sawtooth500Well in Chicago back in the late 80's early 90's they got Glenview Naval Air Station to close - guess what? IT WAS THERE BEFORE YOU BUILT YOUR STUPID HOUSES! However, the O'Hare expansion is a great example where NIMBY's LOST!
In fairness, Glenview NAS served only the Naval Reserve and was closed as part of a general base closing by the Navy and the other armed forces.
The newer acronym BANANA is now in vogue.
BUILD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ANYWHERE ANYTHING
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
On the ex-Reading RR's long out-of-service - like since 1981 ? - Bethlehem Branch in Upper Saucon Twp., Lehigh Co., Pennsylvania, just south of the City of Bethlehem and northeast of the Borough of Coopersburg, the McMansion crowd in the exclusive and very upscale Weyhill Woods subdivision put a few gardens, sheds, playsets, compost piles, firewood stacks, etc. on the R-O-W and even the tracks. The line was later sold to the regional transit agency - SEPTA - and supposedly every time the subject of restoring passenger rail service from Behthlehem/ Lehigh Valley down to Philadelphia comes up, those 'lords of the manor' threaten to fight it to the death, or some such.
Well, about 2 years ago at the height of the scrap metal boom, SEPTA sold the well-worn but still 130+ lb. rails and Other Track Materials from about 8 miles of the 2 mainline tracks which ran past there - for about $1,000 per ton ! - as part of a scheme to lease the R-O-W to a couple municipalities to turn it into a rail-trail, 'pending' the someday restoration of rail service. The scrapper/ salvager and his dozers first went through to knock down and cut the heavy brush and small trees, and I understand that all of the offending trespassers got the hint. One way or another their stuff was moved of at least the roadbed portion of the R-O-W, for at least the duration of the salvage operation. I haven't heard that the Township got a lot of grief for he rail-trail or for allowing the track removal/ salvage to happen, but then again that didn't involve trains running past the McMansions. Nevertheless, with the drop in real estate values over the past couple of years, maybe the NIMBY's don't have much stomach for a long expensive fight.
- Paul North.
diningcar The newer acronym BANANA is now in vogue. BUILD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ANYWHERE ANYTHING
Ya missed a letter: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything
Add to that CARD's... is in Citizens Against Rational Decisions
Have fun with your trains
During the late 1990s, folks here in north Idaho were protesting BNSF's proposed refueling facility at Hauser Yard. It was a long, complicated story which I boiled down to news pieces for Trains, Railway Age, and CTC Board. Storing and dispensing fuel over one of the world's most pure and productive aquifers was cause for concern, but cooler heads prevailed after it was demonstrated that BNSF would be protecting our water supply better than the area's existing gas stations, tank farms, and septic systems.
Gary mentioned earlier the NIMBY factor with El Toro Marine Base. I did most of my growing up in El Toro, and despite those housing tracts being built right up against the ATSF right of way, where 90-mph Amtraks and a handful of freights passed each day, there was never any public complaint against the railroad that I can recall. Even with the occasional pedestrian fatality along that part of the Surf Line, or down south along the beach at San Clemente, people just didn't seem to pay much attention to the railroad in their backyards.
The houses shown in that opening aerial photo in the NIMBY article have nothing on the proximity I've seen both in El Toro and where I live now on the northern edge of Post Falls (just west of Coeur d'Alene), Idaho. See that parking lot/roadway at the bottom edge of the photo? That's how close the houses were to the track in California as well as here in Idaho. We have UP's ex-Spokane International route a couple hundred feet out our back door, and BNSF clearly audible a couple miles to the north. What I can't understand is why some of the newer developments around here have put houses barely 70 feet from the track, some of those being right next to a grade crossing. No NIMBY noise complaints have been made public yet. At least in this area, I think people realize the railroad was there long before them, and it was their choice to buy a house too close to the track.
OUt here in Kansas it's the Wind Farms. The area of the Flint Hills (link to some photos of an existing Wind Farm near Beaumont,Ks) Thats East of Wichita. http://www.pbase.com/bruceward/elk_river_wind_farm
The NIMBY's complain they spin like the blades on a 'Cuisineart'~ Not my experience, very quiet and sure does not bother the cows grazing around the bases of the machines. I read that out in California, that people who have bought homes built near the high passes where there are Wind Farms are complaining that they are bothering them, and the Wind Farm was there long before the homes... Reminds one of the battles with some railroads and other NIMBY's.
They were already to go, the actual neighbors were fine with it, then some boneheads that lived blocks away went to the public hearing and complained about how this would reduce property values. NUNS REDUCE PROPERTY VALUES!
The deal fell through and my mom ended up having to keep the place almost an extra year and she sold it for half what they had offered. JERKS!
We have one NIMBY who dials the sherrif's department as soon as the crossing gates go down to complain that the crossing is blocked. Nevermind he built his house about 20 years after NS built a passing siding that crosses "his" road and he can drive around the block to go out to the highway. I can read every week in the local paper where a citation was actually issued or it was on the court docket and NS was fined.
The genius "knows railroads are on the way out" and that's why he built there.
This isn't RR related, but there is an empty building in Bartlesville, OK that used to be a car dealership. It is located in a downtown area that is kind of off the beaten path. The local Sonic franchise would like to purchase the property and build a new Sonic to replace one that is located in an area that is too small. I saw the architectural drawings he had and did his best to make it blend in with the rest of the buildings.
Some bonehead NIMBYs don't want it there because it will make downtown too "commercialized" and "cheap". They fail to realize that there is a Pizza Hut next door to the proposed Sonic. There is also a Subway located in the heart of downtown! The really sad thing is that there isn't a house located within a quarter of a mile.
Will
ndbprrhave to wonder if the greenies who think they are smarter than the rest of us have thought wind turbines out completely. Energy is not free. Turning those blades disipates and slow the air turning them. Build enough and it could be possible to create areas where wind is nonexistant leading to who knows what but certainly drought and areas of no rain are possible.
And move all the trains to the east coast and you could slow the rotation of the earth so much the days would be too hot and the nights too cold...
Suuuure.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
trainboyH16-44ndbprrhave to wonder if the greenies who think they are smarter than the rest of us have thought wind turbines out completely. Energy is not free. Turning those blades disipates and slow the air turning them. Build enough and it could be possible to create areas where wind is nonexistant leading to who knows what but certainly drought and areas of no rain are possible. And move all the trains to the east coast and you could slow the rotation of the earth so much the days would be too hot and the nights too cold...Suuuure.
ndbprrTurning those blades disipates and slow the air turning them. Build enough and it could be possible to create areas where wind is nonexistant leading to who knows what but certainly drought and areas of no rain are possible.
Sad when a lack education in basic science leads to such uninformed statements.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
For some reason NIMBY's always prey on fear. They always have to throw out the worst case and even beyond that. Like the Trains article said, they keep preying on the parents of the elementary school's fear of a tank car spill in the yard and how devastating it will be. Nevermind the fact that its a Intermodal facility, not a regular manifest yard. Makes me wonder how bad the Nohub4McCalla group would freak out if they knew that there already is a 10,000 ft or so passing siding about 100 yards behind the McAdory elementary school (and greatest center of controversy) and those "deadly tankers" are sitting there all the time waiting for the clear.
Five-10 years ago in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, somebody wanted to bring in one of those trendy pre-fab chrome diners and put it downtown.
The yuppies came out the woodwork on this one. One letter to the editor said "Downtown Sioux Falls reminds me of Paris, with all of the sidewalk cafes, this diner will ruin the effect."
The diner was brought in, and they put it right were they wanted to originally.
In front of a multi-story concrete parking structure.
The real problem with windmills is that they are being represented as a free source of energy because the wind is free. The wind may be free, but windmills are not. They are very expensive, high-maintenance, machines that face a variety of operating adversities. To meet these challenges, they are evolving toward more and more mechanical complexity and higher cost.
They are expensive machines with a finite life, and they only produce so much electricity during that life. When you compare the value of that electricity to the life-cost of the wind generator, you get electricity that costs much more than electricity produced in fossil fuel power plants.
Furthermore, wind power is irregular and unpredictable, while the consumption market must have a constant and consistent supply of electricity. That means that wind plants must have fossil fuel power plant backup to fill in the gaps in the wind energy production. And while wind plants can merrily rise and fall in their production, fossil fuel plants cannot easily ramp up and idle down in response as wind backup. So wind power requires fossil fuel backup power, which can be problematic, and also is redundant. This also adds to the overall cost of wind energy.
To get wind power started, this extra cost is being subsidized by averaging it out to non-wind ratepayers. But, eventually, as wind power becomes more mainstream, we will all be paying a higher tab for electricity.
But one must consider that the point of wind power is not to produce cheaper electricity, even though the advancement of the wind energy movement is all wrapped up in that false promise. The real purpose of wind power is to reduce the emission of CO2 in order to prevent the destruction of the planet. Wind power is an extra financial burden, just like a tax, and the purpose is to save our lives. It is basically a civic responsibility just like jury duty.
rrnut282We have one NIMBY who dials the sherrif's department as soon as the crossing gates go down to complain that the crossing is blocked. Nevermind he built his house about 20 years after NS built a passing siding that crosses "his" road and he can drive around the block to go out to the highway. I can read every week in the local paper where a citation was actually issued or it was on the court docket and NS was fined. The genius "knows railroads are on the way out" and that's why he built there.
Also, Buycrus, are you accounting for the fact that Oil, Coal and Natural Gas are also heavily subsidized and that therefore we are paying artificially low rates across the board for our energy?
YoHo1975 Also, Buycrus, are you accounting for the fact that Oil, Coal and Natural Gas are also heavily subsidized and that therefore we are paying artificially low rates across the board for our energy?
To what extent are they subsidized?
Why subsidize something produced by private enterprise that is used by almost everybody?
Renewables are being subsidized to lower their price as an incentive to switch to using them.
samfp1943The NIMBY's complain they spin like the blades on a 'Cuisineart'~ Not my experience, very quiet and sure does not bother the cows grazing around the bases of the machines.
Johnny
"The completion of ADM’s new $540 million dry mill ethanol plant in Cedar Rapids has created a need for more railroad track.
The CRANDIC Railway began construction this month of a hew 9,000-foot track that will go from Old Bridge Road to just east of Fairfax, CRANDIC Marketing Manager Jeff Woods said."
http://gazetteonline.com/local-news/2010/08/19/adm-expansion-requires-crandic-to-add-track
(Sorry, can not activate link)
No report of NIMBY activity, yet.
Bucyrus To what extent are they subsidized?
Most industrialised countries subsidise oil, coal and natural gas production to reduce the cost of finding and producing oil for oil companies. Countries in the developing world subsidise the cost of buying fuel to the public. Experts agree that both forms of subsidies encourage consumption of fossil fuels and thus increase the price of oil
the petroleum industry "probably has larger tax incentives relative to its size than any other industry in the country", according to Donald Lubick, the U.S. Department of Treasury's former Assistant Secretary for Tax Policy
Construction bonds at low interest rates or tax-free
Research-and-development programs at low or no cost
Assuming the legal risks of exploration and development in a company's stead
Below-cost loans with lenient repayment conditions
Income tax breaks, especially featuring obscure provisions in tax laws designed to receive little congressional oversight when they expire
Sales tax breaks - taxes on petroleum products are lower than average sales tax rates for other goods
Giving money to international financial institutions (the U.S. has given tens of billions of dollars to the World Bank and U.S. Export-Import Bank to encourage oil production internationally, according to Friends of the Earth)
The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve
Construction and protection of the nation's highway system
Why does a company like Exxonmobil need 1 dime of subsidy to do anything?
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