toilet on loco

[Rodney Beck]

Hi Randy been treir done that. Rodney conductor BNSF

[Randy Stahl]

Well guys, I know your'e right about getting an engine shopped for a toilet but at least a tag on the isolation switch will call attention to the problem. I am a round house foreman and I do my best to make sure the engines are in good shape when they leave my tracks. On this issue I find myself taking the sides of the train crew, maybe it's because I used to run trains and have a little insight as to what the job is like. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with this , It reflects badly on the service track personell myself being one. I guess you guys got to do your best with what they give you but if it were me I would MAKE this engine non-complying, either report a serious loading problem, smoke in the cab( electrical smell), cut out some traction motors. I got a pretty weak stomach so I would'nt last long in that cab. You should see me trying to clean a toilet in this condition! At least we got high pressure washers , I can blast it from 15 feet away.
I,m getting naushea this morning just thinking about it.
Randy

[wabash1]

the only way you can shop a engine for a toilet is if it wont flush. otherwise like csx says you haft to live with it. ever see a engineer leaning out the window on a not day or a cold one while comming thru town.( conductor also) its a fresh air break . I have tried bad order engines for toilets and as long as the shops can come out and clean out the waste use deoderizers ( i realy dont know which makes you sicker the crap or the overdose of deoderizers) and say its better then you aint bad ordering a engine. what is needed is for crews to not say anything and just go to work get 30 miles out and call for relief. and go to the hospital sick from the fumes. turn in a claim so the saftey records reflect this of lost time injury at work and things will change as the fra will get involved then.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

I just looked at the posted photo's. This is a non complying locomotive. Attach a tag to the isolation switch so at least it cannot be used as a lead engine. No one has to tolerate this , just another indication of the fine maintenence intervals the big RR's brag about. I doubt that train personell created this mess, most likely bums.
randy

got news for you.... you CANT shop a locomotive for a bad toilet.... a bad toilet is not a defect that you can shop for.... you can make an issue for not useing it as a leader... but like i said befor... it means switching it out with another loco that you want as a leader..or they just send someone down from the mecheanical department or even a train master with a can of air freshern....and send you on your way....
csx engineer

[Randy Stahl]

I just looked at the posted photo's. This is a non complying locomotive. Attach a tag to the isolation switch so at least it cannot be used as a lead engine. No one has to tolerate this , just another indication of the fine maintenence intervals the big RR's brag about. I doubt that train personell created this mess, most likely bums.
randy

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

NS used a bag until the late 90's but now all NS units have toilets exept switchers.

And now they probably smell as bad as all the other engines that had them before.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Now you have seen the toilets of the vacume kind and the chemical toilets are like outhouses with deoderizers. see the mess. now if you have the NS bag system this was not a issue. the bag was tied up and despposed of. all you had was a little room and it was fairly sanitary. just dirty is all. so which is better the mess you seen or the bag system?

I can see why the "bag" system perhaps wasn't as bad as I thought, I had no idea washrooms were in the state that they are on locomotives. [xx(]

[wabash1]

Now you have seen the toilets of the vacume kind and the chemical toilets are like outhouses with deoderizers. see the mess. now if you have the NS bag system this was not a issue. the bag was tied up and despposed of. all you had was a little room and it was fairly sanitary. just dirty is all. so which is better the mess you seen or the bag system?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lone Byrd

OOH! thats just plain nasty! Dont they ever clean that? Shoot i'd take a pale a little *** And Span and that toilet will be as good as new!

You're braver than me, I wouldn't go near that thing. [xx(]

[Anonymous]

OOH! thats just plain nasty! Dont they ever clean that? Shoot i'd take a pale a little *** And Span and that toilet will be as good as new!

[Randy Stahl]

A funny thing happend to me on the way to the toilet.... On the older EMD engines ,SD40's etc . The toilet floor is also the top of the traction motor cooling duct for the #1 truck. Some one had done some patching on the floor and left some big holes in the blower duct. I was riding the engine to figure out a loading problem when nature called and since the train was going about 50 mph stepping out side wasn't a good idea. All was fine as I entered the nose and began my job, I notice it was as little windy down there, no big deal, that was until the engineer put the engines in notch 8, a tornado suddenly swept into the toilet room , I was adjusting my position to minimize the mess and found that a 90 degree angle from the toilet worked fine, just had to arc it in.
On another occasion I was riding a train with a high speed wheel slip problem in the middle of the night. The train was slowing for a meet so I thought it would be a good time to relieve my bladder. Little did I know the train would end up stopping on a little rural crossing, with alot of traffic, I didn't expect an audience. Some times you can't win
Randy Stahl

[enr2099]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE:
Actually, until very recently, the toilets in cabooses and passenger cars simply emtied right onto the roadbed. (This is why passenger cars had signs telling people not to flu***he toilets while in station.) I happened onto one of these on an Amtrak train in the mid-1980s.

Yup, I remember when I used to ride the Royal Hudson, the old Canadian Pacific Maroon Coaches would dump right onto the tracks, and that was still the mid 90s.

I remember they would lock the doors 15 minutes from the stations.

All of VIA Rail's Budd Rail Diesel Cars still dump directly onto the tracks. There are signs all over the washrooms on the Budd Cars that say "Please Do Not Flu***oilet While Train is in Station".

[Anonymous]

And to think that pic is of a clean one. I hated going into the nose to get anything [xx(][xx(]

[Modelcar]

....I'll go get the soap.

[Mookie]

Mercy - Q - that doesn't sound like you at all. But you know - the subject may bring out the best/worst in us!

[Modelcar]

....I would think employees would want to raise this issue to the house tops....! More crappy situations than this have been solved. Did I really us that word...

[Mookie]

This is disgusting. Our prisons have better facilities than our locomotives do. We have the ACLU jumping on every little thing...I would think someone would pick this one up - just think of the stink they could raise....(I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself!) But it still doesn't take away from the seriousness of this! This could become a health hazard with new diseases coming out every day!

Mook

[Modelcar]

...Yea, I hear you Ed...and I am aware of how situations such as this get kicked around...Worked around UAW stuff for years and they are part of the 3 legged stool that makes and breaks the operation......Just fjgured your union might be the leg of the stool to work on the problem.
Wow....Closed cab and sitting in 100 degree heat for several days...That must be a problem.

[edblysard]

Yeah, lets put it right there, with keeping the RCOs safe....
Ok, just picking.
One of the problems is when a unit ends up at say, my railroad.
We are a terminal road, our locomotives have no toilets.
And we have no facilities to empty, clean and refill the ones on road units.
Now imagine what one of those smells like, after sitting in our loco tie up track for a few days!

All the contract says, after you whittle down the legalise, is that the carrier who owns or leeses the unit must keep it operational, and service it when needed.
It does not define how clean, or how often specificly, it must be serviced.
So the carriers only "fix" it when it gets to the point that a crew can refuse the unit because the toilet has gotten so full as to present a health hazard.
Like CSX said, till then, they give you a air freshener.

Ed

[Modelcar]

....Seems like the contract is not addressing the issue strong enough....Can't it be an issue on the table the next time around....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

this will give you an idea of what a loco crapper looks like...
http://www.csx-sucks.com/pictures/?2273hole.jpg
keep in mind..this is down in the short nose of the engin....
unless its in a dash 7 GE...and its a small compartment off the electrical cabinet...just as small as the nose toilets...but at least you dont have to duck down all hunched over to get into them....
csx engineer

Those pictures are absolutely disgusting, I am amazed that toilets are allowed to get that bad, I can't even picture sitting next to a mess like that for hours on end.

If they are going to be that bad, why even have them on board - nobody in their right mind is going to use them.

YUCK! [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Well that sure is a good rendition of it and the unkept condition...
Question: Isn't the Union a strong organization.....Why doesn't this become an issue when contract time comes around....? Unions tackle all kinds of problems and I'd think this seems a pretty important one. Surely someone can come up with a sensible solution.

lol...union strong..thats a good one.... the csx contract says that a nasty toilet is not a shopable offence....you can refuse to take a unit if the toilet stincks so bad that it smells the cab up...but most of the time they will just send someone out with a can of air freshener..and send you on your way.... only other thing you can do...is switch the power out with another unit ..if the unit is ok for lead...
csx engineer

[Modelcar]

....Well that sure is a good rendition of it and the unkept condition...
Question: Isn't the Union a strong organization.....Why doesn't this become an issue when contract time comes around....? Unions tackle all kinds of problems and I'd think this seems a pretty important one. Surely someone can come up with a sensible solution.

[csxengineer98]

this will give you an idea of what a loco crapper looks like...
http://www.csx-sucks.com/pictures/?2273hole.jpg
keep in mind..this is down in the short nose of the engin....
unless its in a dash 7 GE...and its a small compartment off the electrical cabinet...just as small as the nose toilets...but at least you dont have to duck down all hunched over to get into them....
csx engineer

[wabash1]

Ns used the bag system in the 90s that is when they took them out then was forced to put them back in. the bag was a orange in color with a NS tag that had a serial number it was recorded who had this number and if it was found by anyone they called the 800 number on there and it was picked up by track men and the employee was delt with.. there was a bucket on the engine that held these bags for dumping at terminal by the shop personell. Now as gross as this might sound. think about what these guys have said about the conditions of toilets on road engines. now take the same little room with a chair that has a hole in it. you place your bag in the hole draped over the seat so its clean do your biz. tie it up and put it in the bucket. cleaned up and ready for the next person. Now think back to a toilet ........full of what ever and the persons who wont sit on it and let it go all over. now which sounds cleaner to go in when you haft to?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

That is what bushes and forests were for. Not just steam engines, even the famous GG-1!

Sounds like that could be a SHOCKING experience!!

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
Actually, until very recently, the toilets in cabooses and passenger cars simply emtied right onto the roadbed. (This is why passenger cars had signs telling people not to flu***he toilets while in station.) I happened onto one of these on an Amtrak train in the mid-1980s.

Yup, I remember when I used to ride the Royal Hudson, the old Canadian Pacific Maroon Coaches would dump right onto the tracks, and that was still the mid 90s.

I remember they would lock the doors 15 minutes from the stations.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: What are you supposed to do with bag when you're done?

I remember reading an article by a disgruntled NS man, that at first, the crews dumped the bags along the line when they got near the end of their runs. But when the neighbors expressed disenchantment with this practice, NS required all bags to be signed for before trips and turned in upon return.

Actually, until very recently, the toilets in cabooses and passenger cars simply emtied right onto the roadbed. (This is why passenger cars had signs telling people not to flu***he toilets while in station.) I happened onto one of these on an Amtrak train in the mid-1980s.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

The fact that most crew members carry a roll of toilet paper in their bag tells you how well these things are serviced.

Ed

Hope that TP is camoflaged during hunting season!