Use of Railroad ROW's for Burried Cables

[diningcar]

A further analogy can be made as it relates to the title by which the railroad owns its ROW.  If the title is only for the conduct of its transportation business then those who have the reversionary interest have been found (through litigation) to be entitled to compensation when fiber optic lines are laid.

However, if the railroad instead of taking money took the rights to fiber optic capacity for their transportation business, communication and signal lines for example, then they have not violated their title to the ROW. I believe that the old Western Union telegraph lines on railroad ROW were the first to utilize this cocept, and of course they have been gone for many years.

[RRPlow]

I would be happy to offer assistance with your proposed project.  Let me address a couple of points in your post.

1. Direct plowing of armored fiber optic cable is possible and we did a fair amount of it in the early days of network build outs.  That method has drawbacks, mainly that you cannot pull the cable out (as you can if you plow HDPE inner duct - plastic pipe) and replace it.  That means that if the cable is damaged you will have to excavate from splice to splice to replace the damaged section.  In an inner duct installation you store slack cable in intermediate handholes so you can pull slack to the damaged section and do a maintenance splice.
2. The distance you can pull or blow fiber optic cable or bare fibers is directly proportional to the accumulated degrees of horizontal and vertical bends in the inner duct.  If you are doing a typical inner duct and cable pull installation you will place intermediate handholes at roughly 1 km. spacing.
3. Inner duct can be purchased on 6km reels, but 3km reels are the more common reel lengths.
4. Fiber optic cable can be purchased on 12 km reels, but a better working length is 6km.  The fiber is installed without splices in the total reel length.  It's a bit complicated to explain in this post.

Let me know if you would like to talk about your installation,

James

[CablePuller]

Sure James, you can reach me at 204-951-7827. I'd be happy to see if we can work something out on this project.

 

Liv

[RRPlow]

Bartman,

You are absolutely correct.  All ancillary costs of installing fiber optic cable on RR ROW was charged to the telecom company that wished to use the ROW.  Additionally, a yearly charge for occupation of the ROW was charged to the telecom company was (and still is) charged usually in a 20 year right of occupancy agreement.  I worked for Amtrak on the northeast corridor leasing the NEC ROW to telecom companies.

You are also correct in pointing out that state DOTs were the original target of telecoms for ROW for the installation of FOC networks, but the DOTs were so fractious and hard to deal with that the telecoms quickly gravitated to RR ROW.  The RR's were independent entities that were accustomed to dealing in ROW agreements and so had all the kinks worked out when the telecom companies came calling.

Further, you are correct in that state DOTs are now attempting to lure telecom and other broadband providers to their ROW now.  The DOTs need fiber on their ROW to facilitate their ITS (Intelligent Transportation Systems) infrastructure.  The RR industry was able to get to lions' share to the ROW deals.

James

[Michels Communications]

Cable Puller -

I'd be happy to discuss your Manitoba project. I can be reached at [phone].

Jerrod

[RRPlow]

Liv,

I will call you tomorrow to discuss.  The firm I presently work for does not have RR Cable Plows so I'm not lobbying for a contract.  I'm RR Plow agnostic.  Jarrod's firm (Michels) does have RR Cable plows and I'm sure they would like to put them to use, however I don't know what the present regulations are re: US firms working in Canada.  I'm also not current on the location or condition of the CN RR Cable Plows.  There are other firms such as Henkels & McCoy who still have RR Cable Plows and actively seek projects.

I'll talk to you tomorrow

James

484 612 3842

[RRPlow]

Hey Jarrod,

What's your relationship with Tag and Pat?

James

[Michels Communications]

I replaced Tag as the head of the Communications division about 2 years ago, and report to Pat who is now the President of Michels Corporation.

In regard to working in Canada, we have a subsidiary (Michels Canada), based in Nisku, Alberta.

Jerrod

[RRPlow]

Jarrod,

I've known Tag for - well a lot of years.  I knew Pat's father probably better than I know Pat.

James

[Michael Assad]

This has been a fascinating thread for someone new to the industry who has been tasked with a rail plow project :)

I'm really hoping that Jarrod and/or James are still following this because I need your help!

My company has been contracted to complete the Development Plan for a PTC project. We are confident we will win the business to install the solution as well.

Our system relies on a fiber optic network which is currently unavailable along the line. I have been tasked with finding quotes for installing the fiber and also finding a telco who would be willing to foot the bill and/or lease the extra capacity (we only need one fiber).

Can someone help me with this?

Cheers!

Mike

[csmith9474]

Just out of curiosity, where and for who is the project for (if you are comfortable disclosing that here)?

[Michael Assad]

I would love to say, but I don't want get in trouble :)

[samfp1943]

csmith9474

Just out of curiosity, where and for who is the project for (if you are comfortable disclosing that here)?

To Smitty (CSmith9474) and to Michael Assad

Thanks you for your interest in this Thread.  Since I was the O.P. on it; I'll attempt to give some background.

   The original discussion was started by some questions as to the various uses of Railroad R.O.W.s   as used for the laying of various types of services that might utilize those routes. (RCL's and Pipelines of various types,etc) .  There are several posters that come here from time to time that are Engineering-type, Professionals. 

   The discussion was originally based on some legal questions as to the amount of control ( ability to sell, or sub-let Railroad ROWS for use other than specific railroad use. Buried RCL's, and other uses that might include other types of utilities.)

    One POster mentioned that it was all a product of the legality of the way that a Company had acquired the Original Property rights ( an outright purchase, or a lease from adjacent property holders- to be used specifically for a railroad. When that use was no longer available, to return to the adjacent land owner.) It was a pretty interesting and informative discussion.

   The this thread on the RCL cable and, and that process of its use and installation, took off.   Discussions of Equipment specifics and the Companies that did the actual installations; SPRINT ( a Southern Pacific Company), QUEST CORP, and then Michaels Company.

    There were a couple of articles on the problems caused on the N.E. Corridor, in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, and the service and equipment disruptions caused by exposed Railroad utilities. 

     This past Summer, and Fall in this area Between Mulvane,Ks. and Wichita; the BNSF laid a number of miles of RCL (fiber Optic Cable) and did major signal replacement on this area of the ElDorado sub. Took out all the former ATSF Signals and replaced them with PTC radio equip,ment and signals. Also  pulled down all the old pole lines and their wiring. They did not use any rail mounted laying equipment, it was all non-railroad ditching and underground type digging machines.

 

[Michael Assad]

Thanks for the background! It's looking like a rail plow won't work in this case either. The railroad doesn't want the cable so close to the track and there is a great deal of rock. I'm hoping to get some high level estimates in from the construction companies this week, so we'll see what they think. Do you know if BNSF is selling unused fiber bandwidth?