Perhaps the paving-over was done prematurely, and/ or by highway people who are mistaken, or 'jumped the gun' on the abandonment of the rail line and hence the crossing.
. How permanent is the cessation of rail service ? Might it resume when the economy improves, or diesel fuel prices for trucks rise again ?
Closing or any other major change at a crossing usually involves a petition to and approval by the state public utilities commission, or a similar agency. Perhaps the railroad didn't want to spend that money yet - it may see the traffic coming back someday. Let someone else pay for the 'Exempt' petition, too. Further, to abandon the whole line requires approval by the Surface Transportation Board, and maybe the railroad doesn't want to do that either.
- Paul North.
I have a feeling it would take time, money and paperwork to get a crossing listed as exempt, or out of service. Then repeat the same to bring the crossing back to life. I know of crossings near here that may be used 2 times a year... yet they are maintained for those two times a year. You never know, next year they may want weekly/daily service.
So while the scrapyard may not be recieving cars today, what's to say that they won't want to bring in cars next week? So even though the line is nto being used, it probably is still in service.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Thanks Zug,
I don't know much about paved-over crossings and out-of service lines but I do know that I have always appreciated being able to participate in these forums without fear of being belittled for my spelling, grammar, punctuation etc. Lets just enjoy "talking trains" and leave the nit-picking for the English 101 Forum.
Maybe the railroad is leaving them up so if there ever comes a day that they ship by rail again they wont have to replace anything? Who knows.But exempting a crossing then trying to get it back in normal operation is a hassle I bet.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
The answer is you know a grade crossing is out of service when you don't get to run trains on that track anymore.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Reply with a little wandering off topic.
All of the crossings for the Minnesota Zephyr line have "EXEMPT" signs at their posts. They put them up some time last spring or summer. The Zephyr last ran 12-31-08. They are waiting to see if the state finds money under a rock somewhere to buy the ROW (it won't be happening anytime soon as Minnesota is the next state to be broke). Last article I read there is a group interested in buying the entire operation and running it again if the owner does not sell ROW to the state.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Out here in Arid-zona there are signs posted on the crossings "Track Out Of Service" when they're no longer in use.
We do our crossing abandment a little backwards here in Salem, Oregon. On a major 4 lane street, the rails were removed years ago and the ROW sold and built on but the posts and lights were still in place at the crossing with an "exempt" sign on them. This year they removed the red lights and crossbucks but the steel post and exempt sign are still there. It's kind of funny because at this point there is no indication that there ever was a ROW there except the posts and sign.
Most RRs have a public relations office that will usually answer questions like this. Good luck.
In Indiana, PA, this rail line wasd long out of service, but the crossings remained in the whole time (even though trees were growing on the tracks). Busses still had to stop at them until a little before the rehabilitation, they were given permission to pass through. Somebody complained, and they all had to stop passing over them. Still, the tracks remained out of service until 2004, when they were rehabilitated to start running coal trains to the Homer City power plant.
I also know that when some major road work was done at a crossing, the rails remained imbedded in the road, but there was no gap anymore, and the crossing signs were removed, a few years before the track was revived.
I have seen the exempt signs, and I also wonder some simple signs weren't placed on them. I guess they just never wanted the hassle of it.
kolechovskiIn Indiana, PA, this rail line wasd long out of service, but the crossings remained in the whole time (even though trees were growing on the tracks). Busses still had to stop at them until a little before the rehabilitation, they were given permission to pass through. Somebody complained, and they all had to stop passing over them. Still, the tracks remained out of service until 2004, when they were rehabilitated to start running coal trains to the Homer City power plant. I also know that when some major road work was done at a crossing, the rails remained imbedded in the road, but there was no gap anymore, and the crossing signs were removed, a few years before the track was revived. I have seen the exempt signs, and I also wonder some simple signs weren't placed on them. I guess they just never wanted the hassle of it.
To be marked exempt, I think someone would have to make the effort to file the appropriate paperwork to the PA utility commission.
I don't think the railroad is the one placing the exempt signs. I would guess that would be done by the agency (city,county,state,etc) that maintains the road. Except at crossings that have had the track removed on either side of the crossing, it might still be possible, maybe not probable, to see railroad equipment use the tracks. The crossing, even if only equipped with cross bucks would have to be flagged.
The removal of crossing flashers and gates may require regulatory permission. I know of one crossing that the gates and lights were maintained and we had to continue to whistle for a couple of months after the road had been closed. They had built an overpass and I was told they needed permission to remove the crossing protection.
Jeff
From the ''Pennsylvania Code'' of Regulations, Title 52 - Public Utilities, Chapter 33 - Railroad Transportation:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.31.html
CONSTRUCTION, ALTERATION OR RELOCATION OF CROSSINGS
Each carrier shall comply with the provisions of section 409 of the Public Utility Law of 1937 (66 P. S. § 1178), and obtain Commission approval of the construction, alteration, or relocation of every public highway and railroad crossing at grade, above grade, or below grade, unless the Commission has given its prior unconditional consent to an abandonment of service or facilities of the line of railroad upon which such crossing or crossings are located.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.21.html
(b) No carrier shall, without Commission approval, remove the protection afforded by . . . any other protection against accidents, . . . or substitute or alter any existing form of protection at crossings, at grade, of the tracks of a carrier across a public highway, or the tracks of another carrier.
jeffhergertI know of one crossing that the gates and lights were maintained and we had to continue to whistle for a couple of months after the road had been closed. They had built an overpass and I was told they needed permission to remove the crossing protection.
Edgewood Road at Beverly?
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
blhanel jeffhergertI know of one crossing that the gates and lights were maintained and we had to continue to whistle for a couple of months after the road had been closed. They had built an overpass and I was told they needed permission to remove the crossing protection. Edgewood Road at Beverly?
I was actually thinking of one out by Valley Nebraska a couple of years ago, but Edgewood Road Xing at Beverly is another example. I didn't even notice on the outbound trip a few trips back that the overpass was open. It was coming home the next day I realized the road had been closed and traffic was going over the bridge.
My Dad once told me that there was a spur on the Baltimore and Ohio's no-gone line to Springfield that led to a lumber yard. The city paved over the long-unused spur. Sometime later, a train came with a delivery of wood. The crew did not know what to do, called their supervisors, who told them to take the locmotive over the track anyway, as the the asphault would be soft enough for the wheels to separate. That is all I can remember of the story--but presumably, it worked.
Anyone have and doubts as the accuracy of the story that was told to my father?
Gabe and Anna (my daughter)
P.S. Should someone correct my spelling, I hope they are proud of themselves.
gabe My Dad once told me that there was a spur on the Baltimore and Ohio's no-gone line to Springfield that led to a lumber yard. The city paved over the long-unused spur. Sometime later, a train came with a delivery of wood. The crew did not know what to do, called their supervisors, who told them to take the locmotive over the track anyway, as the the asphault would be soft enough for the wheels to separate. That is all I can remember of the story--but presumably, it worked. Anyone have and doubts as the accuracy of the story that was told to my father? Gabe and Anna (my daughter) P.S. Should someone correct my spelling, I hope they are proud of themselves.
Paul_D_North_Jr From the ''Pennsylvania Code'' of Regulations, Title 52 - Public Utilities, Chapter 33 - Railroad Transportation: http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.31.html CONSTRUCTION, ALTERATION OR RELOCATION OF CROSSINGS§ 33.31. Regulations and procedure. Each carrier shall comply with the provisions of section 409 of the Public Utility Law of 1937 (66 P. S. § 1178), and obtain Commission approval of the construction, alteration, or relocation of every public highway and railroad crossing at grade, above grade, or below grade, unless the Commission has given its prior unconditional consent to an abandonment of service or facilities of the line of railroad upon which such crossing or crossings are located. http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.21.html § 33.21. General. (b) No carrier shall, without Commission approval, remove the protection afforded by . . . any other protection against accidents, . . . or substitute or alter any existing form of protection at crossings, at grade, of the tracks of a carrier across a public highway, or the tracks of another carrier. - Paul North.
gabe My Dad once told me that there was a spur on the Baltimore and Ohio's no-gone line to Springfield that led to a lumber yard. The city paved over the long-unused spur. Sometime later, a train came with a delivery of wood. The crew did not know what to do, called their supervisors, who told them to take the locmotive over the track anyway, as the the asphault would be soft enough for the wheels to separate. That is all I can remember of the story--but presumably, it worked. Anyone have and doubts as the accuracy of the story that was told to my father? Gabe and Anna (my daughter)
No doubts, if the circumstances were right - mainly that it was straight track, also preferably in the summer when the paving would be softer than right now, the layer was thin as Falcon48 noted, and also that the aggregate/ stones was not too big or too hard, etc. It would be rare that all of those factors would correlate against the locomotive - and if even then it wandered off the tracks a little bit, then the crew could just reverse and likely get themselves out of trouble and back on the rails - to await reinforcements from either the M-O-W guys, the lawyers, the city's Streets Dept., or some other 'Plan B', etc.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.