At Carlinville what track is still out there is cut in several places and tree'd-in. (Suspect it was not NS/N&W's to pick up at abandonment on the Carlinville-Anderson Segment)
IT's treminal operations in the Metro East area also generated a lot of traffic for N&W.
I believe the IT was purchased by the N&W because of the markets it offered to the N&W. In Decatur, they had always cooperated in the switching of the Archer Daniels Midland west plant. The IT operated a daily train via trackage rights to Sprindfield. By buying the IT, the N&W greatly increased it access to the other ADM plants plus more capacity to handle other things in Decatur. There was also a daily ADM train that operated to the St. Louis area where it switched to IT trackage there to go to river loading points for barges. This gave NW access to all the traffic from beginning to end. This one shipper offered a whole lot of business for NW to gain more traffic out of Decatur.
gabe As usual, Nordique72 nailed it--especially with the attributes of the line. The line was before my time too. But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves. As an aside though, there is another stretch of the IT still in existence. North of Carlinville, some farmer purchased aboute 1.2 miles of the line, and he has a small engine that he runs on the line. Kind of different, but for IT lovers, it brings a smile to their face.
As usual, Nordique72 nailed it--especially with the attributes of the line. The line was before my time too. But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves.
As an aside though, there is another stretch of the IT still in existence. North of Carlinville, some farmer purchased aboute 1.2 miles of the line, and he has a small engine that he runs on the line. Kind of different, but for IT lovers, it brings a smile to their face.
I know this post is ancient history but Im trying to find out if the above farmer or family still owns that 1.2 mile of line. Ive looked everywhere to no avail.....unless Im looking in the wrong place.
Harley,
The old substation by Esic was named "Bells"- it was torn down about 1989 after local residents complained that it was unsafe. I do remember going into it a few times before it was torn down- it was full of empty beer cans and graffiti. The NKP station was moved across the tracks about 1992 into the old NO Nelson foundry complex- it is owned by the Madison County Historical Society- they had plans to convert the whole NO Nelson foundry complex into a museum of sorts, but that hasn't happened yet.
Here is a few of my shots from the area- the first is a going shot of the Norfolk Southern's wayfreight passing the former location of Leclaire Tower-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nordique72/2712159926/
and a look at the CNW-NS joint coal train entering Edwardsville and passing the relocated NKP Depot-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nordique72/1142948301/
while the tracks are gone now- I'm glad I took some shots of the trains in town before they disappeared.
Bob-
The Post-Dispatch was indeed the last customer on the old IT line into St. Louis (the "Subway"). The old Illinois Terminal station is still in use downtown- complete with it's railroad themed friezes above the entrances. Back when the NS was still delivering paper cars down into the subway- there was a connection on the riverfront short from where the ITC line came off the McKinley Bridge- this was where the NS accessed the portion to run over to the Subway. I can remember when I was a kid walking over to the old "subway" along Tucker- just south of the Post-Dispatch building there was an opening where you could see down into the subway- and seeing newsprint cars spotted under the building. I always wished I could have seen that move over the remnant of the passenger line- but from what I recall it was always at night.
Nordique,
Sounds like I have a few years on you. I used to hunt in the woods between the Alton and electrified lines (part of Esic now, I think). Remember there used to be a sub-station along the electrified line. I used to hang out at the old interlocking tower, and at the IT maintenance shop that used to be at the end of 1st Avenue. Childhood friend of mine's father was a signal maintainer for the IT. I knew "Old Blue" pictured in the tower photos on leclairerail. That site hasn't been updated in a very long time. I'm trying to contact the Farmers to see if i can find out what's up.
Almost all of the abandoned right-of-way in Madison County has come under the control of the county and have been converted into bike trails. Some is hard-pack gravel, some remains undeveloped, but most is paved. I've ridden some of it. There are some 85-90 miles currently included in the bike trail system. That includes IT, IC, NKP, CNW that I know of. A map is available at http://www.mcttrails.org/viewer.htm I believe the logic was to have it for development for future LRT, but now residents are against that for fear of easier access from St. Claire County (East St. Louis specifically), and possible increase in crime.
It certainly is depressing to go back home and see such a lack of railroad presence in town. By the way, the old NKP station is still in town a few hundred feet from where it used to sit, by the old N. O. Nelson building. I Think someone has plans for it, but don't remember what.
Falcon48 Also, segments of the IT "elevated" line in St. Louis remained in service until just a few years ago. There were ICC filings for abandonment of this segment within the last 5 years, so it's probably no longer in operation. I'm not sure how this track was accessed, since the McKinley bridge trackage was long out of service, but there was probably a connection to another road on the St. Louis side of the river.
Also, segments of the IT "elevated" line in St. Louis remained in service until just a few years ago. There were ICC filings for abandonment of this segment within the last 5 years, so it's probably no longer in operation. I'm not sure how this track was accessed, since the McKinley bridge trackage was long out of service, but there was probably a connection to another road on the St. Louis side of the river.
I believe the last customer using the Illinois Terminal's elevated line into downtown St. Louis was the hometown newspaper, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The paper was receiving inbound shipments of newsprint in boxcars. Apparently those boxcars were being unloaded right underneath the Post-Dispatch building - in an area that once saw the frequent movement of interurbans into and out of the I.T. downtown passenger terminal.
One Saturday about 15-years ago I traced the line between the downtown St. Louis terminal and McKinley Bridge. The "elevated" appeared to have one or more intermediate station platforms on the Missouri side before it dipped down to ground level. The track was laid at ground level for a few blocks and then a new elevated line ramped the route up to the west approach of McKinley Bridge. Most of the track appeared to be in place on the west side of the Mississippi River and across the bridge as well, but the elevated approaches on the Illinois side were too dilapidated to support any kind of railroad operation.
If my memory serves me correctly, Norfolk Southern delivered the inbound newsprint loads to the aforementioned ground segment. Just north of the Post-Dispatch building an old EMD Geep with private line reporting marks was kept parked underneath the sidewalk that ran along the east side of Tucker Blvd. I suppose a contract switching outfit using that unit handled the carload movements between the NS and the newspaper.
Harley-
That's neat you also grew up in E'ville - I lived in the Esic subdivision within eyeshot of the CNW and NS mains. The ex-IT passenger main bike trail was about three blocks from my house- I usually rode my bike over it through the Leclaire interlocking area to school when the weather was nice. When I was old enough to go around exploring the IT's ex-T&E belt line to Roxana had already been abandoned on account of a bridge failing near where they went under the UP's ex-NYC main near Roxana. I remember when they paved over all the crossings between Edwardsville and Troy-and later when they tore it all out. The old T&E water tower south of the former IT yard is still in existence as well- the Madison County folks helped save it after the T&E was converted to a trail. Back when the IT it was out of service my best friend and I spent alot of time in the summers hiking along the overgrown tracks. The electric line in town was torn out in 1972 from what I remember reading on it- to me it was always a bike trail!
Each summer when I drive back north, I make sure to pass through Edwardsville- it sure has changed alot in the 15 years now since I've moved away with all the rail lines through town (save the NS's ex-WAB main on the west side) being torn out and made into bike trails. Leclaire Interlocking area was also mostly obliterated for a new reroute of ILL 159 through town, it's hard to tell where the tower and yard were nowadays since the highway passes right through the former site. I really enjoyed the leclairerail.com site- I remember when that first was posted some years back- there are some fantastic shots posted there from all over the E'ville area.
Lyon_Wonder Falcon48 gabe Were the Alco's RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco's on the IT's roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation. What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . . Gabe P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them. An curious footnote on reporting marks is that railroads, for internal reasons, will sometimes put the reporting marks of long gone predecessor roads on new rolling stock. For example, you can see a good number of relatively new cars running around (I can't immediately recall of they are coal cars or covered hoppers, but I think it's the latter) with "CMO" reporting marks. These are marks of the long gone Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha ("Omaha Road"), a C&NW affiliate which went out of existence in 1973. The cars are actually UP cars. IIRC, NS uses the PRR reporting mark on some of their rolling stock. I've also seen pics of rolling stock with the NYC reporting mark too. My google search says that the NYC reporting mark is used by CSX, and NS also owns the CR reporting mark.
Falcon48 gabe Were the Alco's RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco's on the IT's roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation. What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . . Gabe P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them. An curious footnote on reporting marks is that railroads, for internal reasons, will sometimes put the reporting marks of long gone predecessor roads on new rolling stock. For example, you can see a good number of relatively new cars running around (I can't immediately recall of they are coal cars or covered hoppers, but I think it's the latter) with "CMO" reporting marks. These are marks of the long gone Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha ("Omaha Road"), a C&NW affiliate which went out of existence in 1973. The cars are actually UP cars.
gabe Were the Alco's RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco's on the IT's roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation. What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . . Gabe P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them.
Were the Alco's RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco's on the IT's roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation.
What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . .
Gabe
P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them.
An curious footnote on reporting marks is that railroads, for internal reasons, will sometimes put the reporting marks of long gone predecessor roads on new rolling stock. For example, you can see a good number of relatively new cars running around (I can't immediately recall of they are coal cars or covered hoppers, but I think it's the latter) with "CMO" reporting marks. These are marks of the long gone Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha ("Omaha Road"), a C&NW affiliate which went out of existence in 1973. The cars are actually UP cars.
IIRC, NS uses the PRR reporting mark on some of their rolling stock. I've also seen pics of rolling stock with the NYC reporting mark too. My google search says that the NYC reporting mark is used by CSX, and NS also owns the CR reporting mark.
The use of the "PRR" and "NYC" marks by NS and CSX, respectively, was done as part of the split up of CR by the two roads. All of the rolling stock that has these marks was probably CR equipment before the split.
I'm not so sure about NS owning the "CR" marks, but I don't have a ready way of checking it from my home computer. The reason I wonder about this is that CR still exists as an operating railroad althoug, of course, it is vastly reduced from its days as an independent railroad. It now operates some of the "shared asset" areas created as part of the NS-CSX-CR transaction. But I vaguely recall there was some restructuring of the shared asset arrangement a few years after the NS-CSX-CR transaction, so it's possible that NS acquired the right to use the CR marks at that time.
Hey, Nordique72, I remember the IT in Edwardsville quite well. I grew up on Franklin, three blocks from the old Edwardsville interlocking tower operated by IT, and three hundred feet or less from the NKP main. IT crossed the Litchfield and Madison (CNW after 1958) and Nickel Plate (N&W after 1964) at grade, as did the old IT electrified line. I can't say for sure when the line going to Hamel was last used, but I have photos from around 1980 of track maintenance operations on the line to Alton near Grand View subdivision and the golf course. IT trains all too often derailed in that area spilling grain. I used to walk the line as far as the golf course (or maybe catch a grabiron if I was lucky and had a hand free) to get to EHS. Those trains were moving pretty slow coming out of the yard. The only thing left in the area now is the old water tank that would have been at the south end of the yard. Got a pic if you're interested. Also, there are some great pics of the area, including some IT pics by Gary Forshaw, a former IT engine driver, on www.leclairerail.com. I'm not old enough to remember the electrified line in service, but do remember some of the old motors stored at the Edwardsville yard when I was growing up. Spring, TX....hmmm. I have a friend in Spring that worked for Shell Pipeline at the Roxanna terminal before transfering down there. Poor guy, he's an IC fan.
I forgot that one of the unique things about the IT is that it commonly ran switch engines with road switchers . . .
A retired co-worker of mine has a picture of an IT road train with a pair of B-units sandwiched between some SW1200's. I only hoped that the B-units were equipped with toliets.
DPI Gabe, Yes the power on the grain train was 2 RS1's. And they were smoking it up. I think the IT had some other Alco model's, S1's perhaps?? Not really sure. As recommended by another poster, the IT articles from Trains magazine in the early 80's by Mike Schaefer are very informative. Of course the IT book by Dale Jenkins is basically the IT bible. There are still quite a few IT grain hoppers floating around on NS grain trains in and around the Decatur area. There's a flat car I've seen quite a few times that looks like its been parked in a garage somewhere since the 70's. It's IT paint is in perfect condition.
Gabe,
Yes the power on the grain train was 2 RS1's. And they were smoking it up. I think the IT had some other Alco model's, S1's perhaps?? Not really sure. As recommended by another poster, the IT articles from Trains magazine in the early 80's by Mike Schaefer are very informative. Of course the IT book by Dale Jenkins is basically the IT bible.
There are still quite a few IT grain hoppers floating around on NS grain trains in and around the Decatur area. There's a flat car I've seen quite a few times that looks like its been parked in a garage somewhere since the 70's. It's IT paint is in perfect condition.
I am sorry, I was not considering switch engines as IT Alco power--and I forgot that one of the unique things about the IT is that it commonly ran switch engines with road switchers . . .
gabe As for the trains going through the city streets, I wasn't there, so I am not doubting you. But, if I had a dollar for every time my Dad told me stories of grain trains going through Gilespee and Stauton--and an especially long train derailing in Gilispee, I would probably be a rich man. Those stores are probably what sired my love of Trians. It is my understanding that the IT did not use the IC's line through my home town of Mt. Olive until the very late 70s? Obviously, you would know better than me. But, I have seen three trains on that line (I was born in 75)--one very felicitous four-car train with a Paducha rebuild that could not have been more random, the train that pulled the line out, and an IT train, which also happened to be the only IT train I have ever seen. gabe
As for the trains going through the city streets, I wasn't there, so I am not doubting you. But, if I had a dollar for every time my Dad told me stories of grain trains going through Gilespee and Stauton--and an especially long train derailing in Gilispee, I would probably be a rich man. Those stores are probably what sired my love of Trians.
It is my understanding that the IT did not use the IC's line through my home town of Mt. Olive until the very late 70s? Obviously, you would know better than me. But, I have seen three trains on that line (I was born in 75)--one very felicitous four-car train with a Paducha rebuild that could not have been more random, the train that pulled the line out, and an IT train, which also happened to be the only IT train I have ever seen.
gabe
Hey Gabe,
Don't worry about "doubting" me. This is a discussion and I can be wrong.
And in this case I aparently was.
Sending 120 car loaded grain trains over a line that was bult to handle streetcars on steroids seems to be less than a good idea.
Falcon48gabe Were the Alco's RS-1s? To my knowledge, the only Alco's on the IT's roster were RS-1s, and they only had three or four of them. That would be interesting to see; thanks for the recommendation. What I would give to be able to go to the south side of Springfield for a day in 1970 . . . Gabe P.S. I remember seeing some IT power on the NS, but boy do I remember seeing lots of IT cars. 30 years after its demise, and I still see a good number of them. An curious footnote on reporting marks is that railroads, for internal reasons, will sometimes put the reporting marks of long gone predecessor roads on new rolling stock. For example, you can see a good number of relatively new cars running around (I can't immediately recall of they are coal cars or covered hoppers, but I think it's the latter) with "CMO" reporting marks. These are marks of the long gone Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha ("Omaha Road"), a C&NW affiliate which went out of existence in 1973. The cars are actually UP cars.
gabe As usual, Nordique72 nailed it--especially with the attributes of the line. The line was before my time too. But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves. As an aside though, there is another stretch of the IT still in existence. North of Carlinville, some farmer purchased aboute 1.2 miles of the line, and he has a small engine that he runs on the line. Kind of different, but for IT lovers, it brings a smile to their face. I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W.
I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W.
In a sense, the Illois Terminal WAS acquired by C&NW (together with bunch other roads), and then later sold to N&W. Here's what happened.
By the 1950's, IT was obviously nearing its end as an independent passegner/freight operation. But its freight operations, particular on the south end of the road, were attractive to the main line railroads in the area. Trouble is, given the regulatory climate of the time, an attempt by any one of these roads to acquire IT would have been opposed by all of the others, because of their concern about losing IT's interchange traffic to the acquiring road. That, in turn, would have led to lengthy regulatory proceedings, the outcome of which would have been pretty uncertain, given ICC's merger philosophy at the time.
The solution to this conundrum was that a consortium of 11 main line railroads, one of which was C&NW, bought the IT in 1956 (the deal was actually made in 1955, but the regulatory approvals took time). The roads involved in this deal were B&O, C&EI, CB&Q, C&NW, CRI&P, GM&O, IC (through an affiliate), NYC, NKP, STLSF and WAB. It's likely that the making of this deal in 1955 was the immediate cause of the termination of IT's main line passenger service in early 1956, since the consortium was buying the road for its freight and would have regarded the passenger service as a liability (which would, in turn, have reduced the price they would be willing to pay for the property). But the service could not have survived much longer in any event.
After this deal was closed, IT continued to operate as a separate entity, with each of the consortium roads having an equal ownership interest in the company. Of course, since the road was "controlled" by multiple roads (the number went down through mergers over the years), it really wasn't effectively controlled on a day to day basis by anyone, and its management did pretty much their own thing. Over time, most of the IT mileage north of the East St. Louis / Madison area was abandoned in favor of trackage rights over the roughly parallel routes of consortium members.
By the late 1970's, the reduction in the number of consortium roads through mergers and the financial losses being generated by IT led the surviving consortium members to reevaluate the need to retain IT as a separate entity, and continue the IT trackage rights operations north of the East St. Louis / Madison area. The solution was the N&W deal made in 1981. Essentially, the deal involved (i) abandonment of most of IT's main line trackage rights operations; (ii) acquisition of remaining IT rail assets by N&W, and (iii) various grants of trackage rights or other access rights between the surviving consortium members to preserve their access to former IT industries (at least the ones that were worth anything). And so the IT passed into history.
I believe that a portion of IT's Springfield Belt line was used for a main line relocation in the late 1980's or early 90's, but I'm not sure of the details. Something like this would likely have involved complete replacement of the trackage on the segment that was utilized. Also, segments of the IT "elevated" line in St. Louis remained in service until just a few years ago. There were ICC filings for abandonment of this segment within the last 5 years, so it's probably no longer in operation. I'm not sure how this track was accessed, since the McKinley bridge trackage was long out of service, but there was probably a connection to another road on the St. Louis side of the river.
Probably more than anyone wanted to know.
Look for the video Lincolnland Rails. There's a couple scenes of a grain train working south out of Springfield. One scene shows the train going down the middle of the street in I believe Virden. Another scene shows the train rounding a sharp curve at a pretty good speed. And to top it off, the train is being pulled by Alcos. Being born around the same time as you, I too missed out on the IT. I do however remember seeing IT diesels on N&W after the merger.
nordique72 Hi Bob, That abandoned substation north of Carlinville was at Nilwood, IL on the north side of town. In the early 90s there still were quite a few ex-substations still around along the old IT including Cornstalk (north of Edwardsville), Loveless (north of Gillespie, and as of late 2008 still standing), Carlinville (in town, moved across the road and in the county road shop), Nilwood, and Williamsburg. On the line to Decatur the depot/substation at Buffalo was still around as well. Cornstalk, and Williamsburg are gone now, I haven' t been through Nilwood since 2004, but it was still up then when I saw it from Amtrak that year, I'm not sure if the one in Carlinville is still around or not. Here are a couple of the shots I took of the substations Cornstalk and Loveless- when I get home I can dig out the picture of the one at Carlinville I took in 1991 as well...
Hi Bob,
That abandoned substation north of Carlinville was at Nilwood, IL on the north side of town. In the early 90s there still were quite a few ex-substations still around along the old IT including Cornstalk (north of Edwardsville), Loveless (north of Gillespie, and as of late 2008 still standing), Carlinville (in town, moved across the road and in the county road shop), Nilwood, and Williamsburg. On the line to Decatur the depot/substation at Buffalo was still around as well. Cornstalk, and Williamsburg are gone now, I haven' t been through Nilwood since 2004, but it was still up then when I saw it from Amtrak that year, I'm not sure if the one in Carlinville is still around or not. Here are a couple of the shots I took of the substations Cornstalk and Loveless- when I get home I can dig out the picture of the one at Carlinville I took in 1991 as well...
Yes, Nilwood, Ill. was the place I had in mind. Thank you.
The first time I saw that stretch of Illinois Terminal right-of-way was in September 1968. I was riding the G.M.& O. Limited at the time, enroute from Chicago to Saint Louis. In the intervening 35-years (the last time I was through there was maybe 2003), that former interurban route looks more-and-more forlorn. Borrowing an idea from the late novelist Margaret Mitchell, "It was a time and place of beauty, now Gone With The Wind."
You're right about the big freight trains running on the city streets in Staunton and Gillespie- the old IT "passenger main" through those towns up to Springfield was used for freight service until 1972, up until that time the IT was trying to run those heavy on the old interurban infrastructure. After a series of bad derailments the IT began securing trackage rights on parallel lines- the picked up rights on the CNW from Leclaire to Monterrey Mine, the ICG main line from Mont to Springfield, and the ex-GMO IC main from Wood River to Springfield. Those were the rights south of Springfield- north of there it was a whole different setup.There was a great pair of articles in Trains magazine in 1980/81 about the IT and all it's trackage rights they ran. By the end the only original IT lines in use were "terminal" lines in the St. Louis area (the T&E Belt Line, and the Alton line), Springfield (the old "Belt Line" around the east side), Decatur and Peoria. I wished as a kid that I could have seen the lime green and yellow units of the IT- but I was a little to young for that.
Sorry for the digression, but my four-year old daughter is insisting that she be able to type this (she will probably spell better than me):
The Illinois Terminal trains looked better than the Norfolk and Western trains.
anna
greyhounds gabe But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves. I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W. Well, if'n we was dumb, we wasn't quite that dumb. When the IT failed as a passenger interurban it had developed significant freight markets. Any railroad that bought the failed IT would get those freight markets for a cheap price. Couldn't have that. So 11 railroads or so went together and bought the IT as a group. That kept it "neutral" and kept any one railroad from winning the "prize". It then became a royal pain in the butt. Abandoning its own track and operating via trackage rights over other railroads, it undercut prices and diverted "our" freight. This wasn't a viable long term strategy on its part, but low balling prices kept the IT running for a while. Eventually, it became a basket case again. What to do? Sell it to the C&NW? Not on your tintype. I'll use Decatur, IL as an example. Decatur is a major grain processing center located smack dab in the middle of some of the best farm land in the world. It's also been a major manufacturing center with Caterpillar continuing to have a major presence in the community. http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=8703&x=7&id=1389429 Firestone used to be there too, but they aparently built some bad tires that killed some folks and that "One Little Thing" closed the plant. (I had an Explorer with Firestone tires from Decatur. I took it to the Ford dealer just to see if my tires were on the recall. They literally impounded my truck and immediately changed out the tires at no charge. Ford then "fired" Firestone and the Decatur Firestone plant is no more.) The ICG and N&W served Decatur. As did the pain in the butt IT. If the ICG and N&W (IT owners) had allowed the C&NW to buy the IT they would have allowed the C&NW into the lucrative Decatur market. As I said, we wasn't that dumb. Since the N&W already served Decatur it was of no never mind if they got the IT. I'm sure there were other similar examples. As to the 120 car grain trains running through city streets: I believe those trains came about after the IT had switched to trackage rights on "Regular" railroads that used proper right of ways. As information, the IT didn't just parallel the GM&O south of Springfield. They "Joined" the GM&O at Lincoln, IL which is around 39 miles railroad north of Springfield. I sure do wish I could have had a ride on one of those electric cars through that central Illinois farmland.
gabe But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves. I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W.
But, my Dad has shown me where it went on countless occassions, and I just marvel at the thought of those 120-car grain trains negotiating those city streets and sharp curves.
Well, if'n we was dumb, we wasn't quite that dumb.
When the IT failed as a passenger interurban it had developed significant freight markets. Any railroad that bought the failed IT would get those freight markets for a cheap price. Couldn't have that. So 11 railroads or so went together and bought the IT as a group. That kept it "neutral" and kept any one railroad from winning the "prize".
It then became a royal pain in the butt. Abandoning its own track and operating via trackage rights over other railroads, it undercut prices and diverted "our" freight. This wasn't a viable long term strategy on its part, but low balling prices kept the IT running for a while. Eventually, it became a basket case again. What to do?
Sell it to the C&NW? Not on your tintype. I'll use Decatur, IL as an example.
Decatur is a major grain processing center located smack dab in the middle of some of the best farm land in the world. It's also been a major manufacturing center with Caterpillar continuing to have a major presence in the community.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=8703&x=7&id=1389429
Firestone used to be there too, but they aparently built some bad tires that killed some folks and that "One Little Thing" closed the plant. (I had an Explorer with Firestone tires from Decatur. I took it to the Ford dealer just to see if my tires were on the recall. They literally impounded my truck and immediately changed out the tires at no charge. Ford then "fired" Firestone and the Decatur Firestone plant is no more.)
The ICG and N&W served Decatur. As did the pain in the butt IT. If the ICG and N&W (IT owners) had allowed the C&NW to buy the IT they would have allowed the C&NW into the lucrative Decatur market. As I said, we wasn't that dumb. Since the N&W already served Decatur it was of no never mind if they got the IT.
I'm sure there were other similar examples.
As to the 120 car grain trains running through city streets: I believe those trains came about after the IT had switched to trackage rights on "Regular" railroads that used proper right of ways.
As information, the IT didn't just parallel the GM&O south of Springfield. They "Joined" the GM&O at Lincoln, IL which is around 39 miles railroad north of Springfield.
I sure do wish I could have had a ride on one of those electric cars through that central Illinois farmland.
Greyhounds,
As always thanks for the information. Very interesting--at least I was right in concluding the CNW had a reason to want the IT.
gabe I always wondered why the IT was not purchased by the CNW rather than the N&W.
Perhaps it was cheaper for them to buy the remaining shares since they already held the shares owned by Wabash and the Nickle Plate?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nordique72/2552253359/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nordique72/2998576782/
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