Paul_D_North_JrDon, that sounds as if there are some interesting history, observations, analysis, and conclusions to be had there, especially from a management perspective. I'm not interested in character assassination, personality-bashing, or 'telling tales out of school', and don't want to put you on the spot or in an uncomfortable position - so can you suggest some reading or other reources for 'the rest of the story'' ? Thanks in advance. - Paul North.
Don, that sounds as if there are some interesting history, observations, analysis, and conclusions to be had there, especially from a management perspective. I'm not interested in character assassination, personality-bashing, or 'telling tales out of school', and don't want to put you on the spot or in an uncomfortable position - so can you suggest some reading or other reources for 'the rest of the story'' ? Thanks in advance.
- Paul North.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmanndIf the opportunity comes, ask some ex-Cons now on NS about how those guys handled the Conrail integration.
Yes, that does sound like an interesting corporate story.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
CSXrules4eva I just don't get it. I think a lot of it has to do with the old Tony Ingram Dynasty, that man cracks me up honestly. Now since he retired we have someone named Brown who used to be under him that is supposed to take his place, I do wonder will things change in the operations field.
If the opportunity comes, ask some ex-Cons now on NS about how those guys handled the Conrail integration.
Convicted One I'd buy CSX and stop ALL spending for upkeep and maintenance, skimming off the resulting savings as dividends, then years later just as everything is falling apart, I'd go to the government, pitch my case that CSX was "too big to fail" and apply for $$billions$$ in loans and grants earmarked to put humpty dumpty back together again, ....the proceeds of which I'd redirect to buying NS stock with... instead. from there it'd be pretty much "smooth sailing"
I'd buy CSX and stop ALL spending for upkeep and maintenance, skimming off the resulting savings as dividends, then years later just as everything is falling apart, I'd go to the government, pitch my case that CSX was "too big to fail" and apply for $$billions$$ in loans and grants earmarked to put humpty dumpty back together again, ....the proceeds of which I'd redirect to buying NS stock with... instead.
from there it'd be pretty much "smooth sailing"
Convicted, I like both your response and the way you think. Given that some properties boast deeper pockets than CSX, meaning more cream to skim, if you were to snatch up, say, UP or NS (BNSF is already off the table, and UP is bigger and therefore perhaps preferable), you might really be onto something.
Having posed the question, I will now give my own answer. Some of the others' replies make sense, reminding everyone that they are railroaders, and many of the comments concerning CSX seem to have validity, and certainly CSX could be a real moneymaker with the right management and overhaul. But I would choose the UP. I think the USA would benefit by giving BNSF competition with a railroad that also looks to the future and doesn't concern itself with pleasing sharholders interested in short-term profits. And the route system of the UP is logical, serves growth markets, and allow it to become the dominant carrier in many areas where BNSF gives competitions. I have already answered those that would immediately change management and obviously I would not do anything of the kind. Changes would be made slowly and deliberately with advice of relevant experts both within and outside the current management and employees. I would try to determine the financial value of:
Speeding up completion of Sunset double-tracking
Electriciation of the Overland Main Line
Making Kansas City - St, Louis - Chicago into super railroad to compete with BNSF's shorter main line.
Only if the above is financially attractive from a freight standpoint, then look out UP owned and operated and branded (yes, Armor Yellow), in cooperation with Amtrak, corridor passenger service in the above corridor.
Upgrading LA - Las Vegas - Salt Lake City to take pressure off the Sunset route
Upgrading the line to Portland, OR, to compete with BNSF in the Northwest.
Help to connecting short lines, particularly those on ex - UP and fallen flag trackage
I would personally look into the Amtrak delay problem, not only because of the bad public immage of delaying passenger trains, but also because resolution of the problem should reduce problems delaying freight trains as well.
In the example noted above, building a new KC-Chicago main would be difficult to impossible. ROW acquisition costs would be impossibly steep, and how would you gain connections at each end. I'm also not so sure that a Chicago extension would be that beneficial to KCS. A Twin Cities extension might be a better proposition, but by acquisition, not new construction.
Another idea I had.
If buying any class 1 would be a bad move, what about providing one with funds to enhance operations where it's needed?
Example, what if instead of buying KCS, I gave them the funds to build a line to Chicago? Wouldn't KCS greatly benefit from having direct access to Chicago?
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
I was reading Barron's this morning and they featured their annual ranking of the "50 Most Respected Corporations." I believe "respect" here means well-run, profitable, innovative and fairly ethical companies. No railroads made the list, but Berkhshire Hathaway was ranked #5, so that may mean None of the Big 6 RR's are worth buying or BNSF was the best of the litter and the others...
If you can first define your terms to yourself: ie. railfan, businessman, goals. After that figure whether you are a railfan or a busniessman and if you can meld the two together for some smart, realistic, attainable, goals, you might be able to pull it off. But if it is to get that perfect picture on that sweeping S curve across the river in the mountains in perfect sunlight, or the relive the Limited smoking up the Valley with 20 heavyweight coaches and a full head of steam, forget it. But, if like the NFL and other major sports, one can come up with a Fantasy Railroad game, then somebody can make some money here.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
wwhitbyI'd buy CSX, mostly because it has a large presence in the local area and I don't want to move :-) Since CSX would no longer be publically traded, profits would be plowed back into the infastructure and bonuses and benefits for employees, and some saved for the rainy day that always seems to occur. I would focus first on improving track and roadbed, and then implementing new technology in a smart way to benefit everyone and make jobs easier. I hear rails complaining about locomotives not working, and have seen them fighting non working locomotives, so maintennace of locomotives would also improve so that the availablity rate is very high! Another thing that I would do is to remind everyone, no matter what their craft or management area that they are railroaders. One small thing I would do to remind everyone they are railroaders is that ALL employees would own and use a railroad approved watch, again no matter what job they do. Also, ALL managers from the CEO on down (and me) would be riding trains every chance they get, especially at O dark 30. You can learn a lot from someone when your sharing your food with them early in the morning. The us versus them culture between management and labor would also disappear, or diminish, since we all work for the same company, and work together no matter what job we do. Trainmasters hiding in the bushes would also go, as I would trust our employees to do the right thing every time, or at least try to do the right thing. I would also offer bonuses for money saving suggestions from our employees. Punishment for infractions would also be equal to the infraction, and designed to show the employee the right and safe way, not to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Management could and would be punished too! I would also start an Alfred Perlman style management training program like he had at the New York Central. Future managers would also start out as switchmen or brakemen, and then work on the track, since I think the best managers (like Mike Haverty) start out at the bottom. For non managers, they would go through our training center so that we can train them the way we want to do business. And, all railroad employees travel by train when on railroad business, even if its riding in the locomotive cab of a freight train to get where we are going. I would also do much more public affairs work, such as running limited excursions (steam and diesel) a la UP, and having a CSX exhibit car like NS does (or did.) CSX would also have a program to sponsor local activities, and have open houses on CSX property. I would also welcome railfans by creating safe train watching areas on railroad property, and asking for them to keep their eyes open for tresspassers and unsafe conditions. I would also get out and talk to railfans about the railroad, since you can find out a lot about how we are doing from our fans. I would also have a heritage locomotive program, since we need to remember our corporate roots. Since some of our predecesor railroads had mutliple schemes, we would have a contest for our our fans and employees to pick the color scheme for each heritage locomotive. Also, our timetables would be available for download as pdfs by anyone who wanted one and CSX merchandise (like timetables and rule books) would be available on eBay, and from our company store at reduced prices. I consider that to be part of advertising - getting our word and our brand out. Yes, i've thought about this over the last few days :-) Warren
I'd buy CSX, mostly because it has a large presence in the local area and I don't want to move :-)
Since CSX would no longer be publically traded, profits would be plowed back into the infastructure and bonuses and benefits for employees, and some saved for the rainy day that always seems to occur. I would focus first on improving track and roadbed, and then implementing new technology in a smart way to benefit everyone and make jobs easier. I hear rails complaining about locomotives not working, and have seen them fighting non working locomotives, so maintennace of locomotives would also improve so that the availablity rate is very high!
Another thing that I would do is to remind everyone, no matter what their craft or management area that they are railroaders. One small thing I would do to remind everyone they are railroaders is that ALL employees would own and use a railroad approved watch, again no matter what job they do. Also, ALL managers from the CEO on down (and me) would be riding trains every chance they get, especially at O dark 30. You can learn a lot from someone when your sharing your food with them early in the morning. The us versus them culture between management and labor would also disappear, or diminish, since we all work for the same company, and work together no matter what job we do. Trainmasters hiding in the bushes would also go, as I would trust our employees to do the right thing every time, or at least try to do the right thing. I would also offer bonuses for money saving suggestions from our employees. Punishment for infractions would also be equal to the infraction, and designed to show the employee the right and safe way, not to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Management could and would be punished too!
I would also start an Alfred Perlman style management training program like he had at the New York Central. Future managers would also start out as switchmen or brakemen, and then work on the track, since I think the best managers (like Mike Haverty) start out at the bottom. For non managers, they would go through our training center so that we can train them the way we want to do business. And, all railroad employees travel by train when on railroad business, even if its riding in the locomotive cab of a freight train to get where we are going.
I would also do much more public affairs work, such as running limited excursions (steam and diesel) a la UP, and having a CSX exhibit car like NS does (or did.) CSX would also have a program to sponsor local activities, and have open houses on CSX property. I would also welcome railfans by creating safe train watching areas on railroad property, and asking for them to keep their eyes open for tresspassers and unsafe conditions. I would also get out and talk to railfans about the railroad, since you can find out a lot about how we are doing from our fans. I would also have a heritage locomotive program, since we need to remember our corporate roots. Since some of our predecesor railroads had mutliple schemes, we would have a contest for our our fans and employees to pick the color scheme for each heritage locomotive.
Also, our timetables would be available for download as pdfs by anyone who wanted one and CSX merchandise (like timetables and rule books) would be available on eBay, and from our company store at reduced prices. I consider that to be part of advertising - getting our word and our brand out.
Yes, i've thought about this over the last few days :-)
Warren
I really like the way you think! We could use a good person like you out on the CSX. Things with CSX are so fouled up right now it's not even funny. It is a wonder how they make any money at all. They seem to waist a lot of it on cutting people off jobs, then having to call other jobs to back them up because the car counts in the yard are down. Hummmm I can't imagine why. I just don't get it. I think a lot of it has to do with the old Tony Ingram Dynasty, that man cracks me up honestly. Now since he retired we have someone named Brown who used to be under him that is supposed to take his place, I do wonder will things change in the operations field.
I think I would have to agree with you I would buy CSX, it's one of the railroads I grew up with and I would honestly like to see it succeed. All of the things I would do are summed up above by wwhitby. Nice job thinking this one through!
Lets see.using today as a start point
1. Get a good team to analyze all available RRs -- UP, NS, CSX, KCS, CP, CN.
2. Analyze competition if bought a certain RR-- ie BNSF with Warren as a formidiable opponent.
3. What RR has the potential to grow the most from the present position to one with good management/
a. Lax marketing
b. Track maintenance state
c. costs for eliminating permanent slow orders.
d. State of repair of yards
e. How many choke points and how much traffic each delays.
f. Possibility to get funds to upgrade trackage from AMTRAK, commuter agencys, FRA, ARRA, etc
g. Amount and kind of AMTRAK problems present and future.
h. how much tracks may be weather delay prone. ( trees too close to track, snow drifts, flood prone)
j. average velocity
k. how much to run a scheduled RR?
l. All the above stirred in a pot to get cost estimates.
m. Future traffic forecasts
n. maintenance states of all rolling stock.
p. Maintenance equipment state of repair.
I would then take the above and see which RR I could grow the most by plowing back all operating profits into improving the operation and making it fluid at all times. This would be for a 5 - 15 year time and at the end sell by an IPO.
I have never seen such flights of fantasy and fiction, as well as the disavowal of human nature and economic realities as I have seen in a number of these responses.
Freight railroads exist to serve their customers by providing safe, timely transportation for thier customers product from origin to destination at minimum carrier costs and maximum market supported pricing.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
If there is truly a more profitable way to provide transportation service to customers using a railway, I would spend dough hiring the wisest marketing people and wisest operational people around. By definition, each would value the perspectives of the others. As a team, they would identify the most lucrative (overall) service opportunities, and bring them into existence. Doesn't matter which railroad. Done dreaming.
Just me, in order: NS, BNSF, CN, UP, CSX. Now to find enough money, do you think I can get a raise in my Retirement Check?
Don U. TCA 73-5735
Instead of buying a class 1, I would take a look at a very good shortline....something which I could manage. It would need to have access to more than one class 1, have a steady source of traffic, both inbound and outbound and potential for growth.
Other than that, a railroad such as Sandersville Railroad would work quite nicely.
ed
Jeaton, your analysis parallels mine. I didn't expect most of the replies to favor running the railroad simply to facilitate the maximum number of wonderful photo opportunities. I thought most people would be interested in using such an opportunity to increase their wealth and that of the Nation. But I will comment on "firing the management and having a new one waiting at the door." Every population has good and bad people. Even the class I with the worst managements, and I won;t pick it, still has some excellent people and that is why the thing still runs and makes money and keeps most of its shippers. If I were to buy a class I and wished to really change the management.
1. I would not announce that fact in advance. I would want people to continue working to the best of their abilitiy to avoid any meltdown of service anywhere.
2. I would start a program of decentalizaton. Employees would be told safety first means just that. If a rule book rule has to be violated to prevent a fire, save a life or prevent and injury, safety is first and always. So much for the case of the UP train caught with a flaming journal over a creosoted timber trestle. Lucky there wasn't a forest fire and just the bridge burned out. I would tell them not to communicate if they can solve a problem on their own within the rules. The famouse case of the one of the two last Indiana High Speeds colliding with the line car with loss of life because the Super thought the operator of the high speed needed help when he was simply reporting a broken trolley rope that he fixed and then resumed his trip would have been avoided if an unnecessary phone call had not been made. If you need something from the Dispatcher, contact him. Otherwise leave him alone. This philosophy would be at the next level as well. And the level above that. So if I find a top manager is unproductive, and should be asked to leave, the people under him will already be prepared to manage their affairs until the new man settles in and understands his responsibilities.
3. I would set up a suggestion system open to all employees and read the suggestions carefully.
4. I would then personally review each top official, get their ideas on how improvements can be made, review past performance, and then and only then decide who should go and who should stay.
Interesting business plans here.
If anybody makes an offer to buy out, I will put up my shares-for cash. I figure that a few years down the road it will be necessary to go public and I'll be able to pick up new shares at about a dime on the dollar.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
igoldbergNot if I bought UP. A REAL management team would be waiting at the door for the old guy to get out. He would have 15 minutes to vacate his office,
Not if I bought UP. A REAL management team would be waiting at the door for the old guy to get out. He would have 15 minutes to vacate his office,
Some you replied with the inclusion of "I'd dump the management." Wouldn't that result in instantaneous meltdown?
coborn35Isnt that what is happening already?
If you are referring to Amtrak, no, it is political and operates at the whims (and whimsy) of Congress with no long term planning for capital or operations. And except on it owned tracks, it is also at the mercy of private railroads whose track it must rent, lease or get right on. Perhaps a capital investor with limitless sources of money could do things the government can't. This is all conjecture, hypothesis, dreaming, based on the question posed and not based on reality, of course.
K4sPRR My wife tells me I am not good with my money, so I'm buying Amtrak! (Questionable Class 1) Someone, please wake me up. Please!!!
My wife tells me I am not good with my money, so I'm buying Amtrak! (Questionable Class 1) Someone, please wake me up. Please!!!
In reality, given enough money, it might not be a bad buy. Taking it out of the political arena so that there can be a real long range capital and operating plan is what it needs, taking it away from what probably is hindering passenger rail travel in this country the most. Since politics and politicians are unstable in that their perspective, guidence, and administration is uneven, temporary, and subject to a real minute change of mind, a long term industrialist's investment and ownership might actually provide "service" instead of just running passenger trains to appease Congress!
I'd buy CSX and stop ALL spending for upkeep and maintenance, skimming off the resulting savings as dividends, then years later just as everything is falling apart, I'd go to the government, pitch my case that CSX was "too big to fail" and apply for $$billions$$ in loans and grants earmarked to put humpty dumpty back together again, ....the proceeds of which I'd redirect to buying NS stock with,.. instead.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.