K&ARailfan I'd really love to go to Modoc this summer, but I heavily doubt that would be possible due to constraints of the financial variety.
I'd really love to go to Modoc this summer, but I heavily doubt that would be possible due to constraints of the financial variety.
Stay away from Modoc. CSX and NS will NOT hire railroad "trade school" graduates. Each wants to hire you off the street and train you up "their" way. A short line might hire you out of Modoc, but usually they (at least the ones I've talked to) prefer to hire people with Class 1 experience.
Otherwise, as long as you can pass the physical, drug and personality tests, you should not problem with NS.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Hey guys! I have found this thread to be very helpful to me, as I'm going through a similar situation as Justin. I was hoping to get some insight as to whether you guys think I have a shot to get hired by a RR. I'll be 18 in May, and I'm planning to go to an NS interview for conductors this summer, as they are hiring in many different towns near me in Georgia and Alabama. I recieved my GED last winter and I have completed various Math, English, and Speech classes this past year at a Technical college as well, but have since taken a leave of absence due to some family issues. My Job expierience consists of a summer unofficially volunteering at a resturaunt, mainly loading/unloading new appliances into the building. I have also played various sports throughout the last decade as well, so I'm in pretty good shape. I'd really love to go to Modoc this summer, but I heavily doubt that would be possible due to constraints of the financial variety.
Glad I didn't listen to the guidance/ career counselor when I was in school. (I often wonder how much was paid under the table to channel people to some VocEd operation )
Surveyors are outside a lot.... So are civil engineers. Both get their hands dirty for different reasons and like it. I enjoyed history classes at every level, but was not sure I knew where that was going to come in. Paul and I know now, especially when you wind up trying to retrace what somebody did 50-100 years ago and why. Five years from now, you may have decided to go totally another direction.
Some people have also suggested me going to a Technical School for a degree in large diesel engines. They said the railroads would like to see that when you go to apply.
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Justin: Paul North, Hayes, henry6, Oltmann and others have all given you excellent advice. As a retired professor, I would strongly recommend attending your local community college for at least one semester after high school. Classes are small in size (30-40), taught by experienced faculty with degrees (at least a masters) as opposed to many introductory classes at four year universities taught by graduate assistants. They also have much cheaper tuition.
In high school and at least the first year or two of college, try to get a well-balanced liberal arts education that will prepare you for many fields and for the changes in the economy that the future holds. English composition and literature, history, plenty of math, some science, other social sciences (psychology, for example), and a foreign language will be very important for you, whether you become a railroad engineer or go in some related or totally different direction. Math and writing skills, as well as mastering what educators like to call "critical thinking" (I prefer to call it analytical reasoning) will prepare you for success at whatever you do in life if you apply yourself and take advantage of the opportunities you are given. As Bill Hayes said (paraphrased): you don't get a degree, you earn it.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
like the idea of a yr of Junior College before going into military. Many careers like technical writing skills so going to college that is a subject with definite pluses especially if eventually going into management.
PD North's suggestions very good.
When I first got out of the army, in 1962, I was a Polish linguist. There wasn't much demand for that skill! I went to work for my father's construction company. I considered applying with New York Central, but I made three-times what the railroad was paying! Over the years, I developed a network and friends with the NYC, as I worked with them, but then Penn Central happened! Bad timing! I'm sorry I missed the opportunity to work for a railroad. I have always regretted not going with NYC. "Water over the dam". I ended up going back with the army, after a time-out as a Professional Ski Patrolman in Vermont. Cool, but it paid less than the railroads did! I guess, the number one consideration is DO SOMETHING YOU LIKE and forget the money. The railroads pay very well, nowadays. The hours might not be great, even for a dispatcher, but I never had great hours in the army. Ask any cop. They'll say the same. Do master the English language. It can, actually, be fun! I speak five languages and never got much benefit from them, jobwise, other than in the army. Sure helps with my NYT Sunday Crossword, though. Piece-of-cake!!! Whatever you do, enjoy it! Now, I wish I had learned Latin....
Hays
Justin,
I would like to offer some advice. Plan to attend at least one semester of junior college. If your high school offers you to go to college while in high school (usually you have to be a senior though), go for it. I went to a junior college and never regretted it. I now have an associates in management.
I am now completing a B.S. in Human Resources. I always tell someone to aleast give college a chance and attend for one semester. If you don't like, then you can always quit and you haven't tied up too much money in it.
Good luck on your education. Your high school years will go by fast so enjoy it.
Will
I really like locomotives, so I bet I would like to be the RFOE. I thought being a dispatcher would be cool too.
Logisitics! How'bout dispatching, trainmaster, yardmaster, road foreman of engines. Study hard, reach higher. And, yeah, worry about learnen' now and doin' later. Ya gots a lotta time.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
To all,
Thank you so much. I know I have a long time to think about what I want to do. I have taken those career placement tests in Careers Class (Yes that‘s an 8th grade class now.) Each time I have scored a 50 or higher in “Logistics” which includes the occupation Locomotive Engineer. I still think I at least want to try it. And if I don’t get on as a train crew member at first you know, I could maybe get on as something else like switchman or brakeman maybe. If I don’t try to get hired on I’ll beat myself up forever that I didn’t try. If I don’t like it, I guess that I could always fall back on another career like maybe a trucker or something.
Thank you all for the very helpful information I really appreciate it. I’ve been thinking about taking Fundamentals Of Ag class. I hear that you use your hands a lot and I like that, you also get to be outside a lot, that is a plus for me as well as I like to be outside. Also, I hear that when employers go to hire you they look at you social networking accounts and places you visit on the internet. So being smart on places like facebook, and on Trainsmag.com will pay off to.
Thanks again all.
Justin
If, in your senior year, you are still undecided, may I suggest you join the military? They offer wonderful training (choose carefully -- only take what you want. The recruiters are quite the salesmen!) and financial incentives. I spent over 33 years in the U. S. Army, attended seven colleges, before earning a degree, and did two stints at the Army Language School/Defense Language Institute. I did say a degree. A degree is something earned, not an entitlement. Most say "my degree", to which I take umbrage. Other than learning foriegn languages, I learned English! That is the most important think you can learn, methinks! Next, in importance is math, no matter what you plan to do. Sports and 'basketweaving' are total trivia. History gets high marks, from me. It might be 'off-the-wall', but a course in typing/keyboarding is essential, if not imperative!!! You do have ten fingers, no? Good luck in your chosen career!
bubbajustin Hello all. I was hoping that at least one of you could assist me in something. I am currently looking at scheduling my High School Freshman classes for next year. I think most of you all know that one day I want to become a Locomotive Engineer. I was wondering if you could tell me your recommendations of classes that would be appealing to the railroads when I go to try to hire on. I used to have a list that another forum member gave me, but it seems to have gone away. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Justin
Hello all.
I was hoping that at least one of you could assist me in something.
I am currently looking at scheduling my High School Freshman classes for next year. I think most of you all know that one day I want to become a Locomotive Engineer. I was wondering if you could tell me your recommendations of classes that would be appealing to the railroads when I go to try to hire on.
I used to have a list that another forum member gave me, but it seems to have gone away.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
The best thing you can do for your education is not to think of it as "job training". What a proper education will do is enable you to understand the world you live in and be able to make a positive contribution. For this to work, you have to understand where we've been (history), how to communicate (language arts) and how the world works (science and math).
On top of this, you have to be able to think. The best way to do this is to push yourself by taking the most rigorous classes you can handle - whatever they may be. Also, be curious about things and see if you can apply what you know to figure out what you don't know.
Put all this together and you'll be able to do things. A wise person does good things. Knowing the difference comes from your character.
If you are knowledgeable, wise and of good character, you'll be able to handle a wide variety of careers and jobs successfully. You'll also have a broad base on which to build a successful life.
So, don't be too focused on a career goal when picking HS classes. Be focused on getting a solid overall education.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Wow - that's quite the compendium of advice. It's all great - wish I had the benefit of it 'way back when' - maybe the best I can do is to 'ditto' all of it. But let me add a few more tidbits, and maybe reinforce or corroborate a few points:
On language, which isn't terribly important by itself but has a couple aspects that tie together: Bob Fryml recommended Spanish. That makes a lot of sense and if I were in your shoes, that's probably what I'd do. But I'll be a little bit contrarian here and say that 'and/ or' French wouldn't be wrong either, unless you expect to never do anything north of the border - Quebec, you know. Plus, for some reason the French-based and other northern European rail equipment companies seem to hold their own in global competition - and consider Bombardier, which remains active. About 22 years ago when I was working on the Frazer Maintenance Facility for SEPTA, the Bombardier representative was Richard Lessard, who was fluent in 'railroad' and 'transit' and in 4 different languages yet - French, English, Spanish, and German - and his speech had accents from all of them. He was a good team builder and leader, too - but then, I believe you're a Scout also, correct ?
Most engineering schools require at least 1 non-engineering course each semester, to make you a more well-rounded person = less of a 'geek'. After 2 semesters of required English grammar and literature courses - and some wasted forays into the government and psychology depts. - most of us found a home for a few semesters in the economics dept. - lots of graphs and charts that were still math-oriented, but 'light' and hence easy. Now maybe that adhered to the non-technical requirement, but it really wasn't that different. So then we started taking history courses - esp. Modern American History, which I felt had been given short shrift and left in a void during my junior and high school days, even though that is what most influenced what was happening outside the classroom right then. The prof and dept. chairman was a little surprised but completely OK with it when I wrote my term paper on the Transportation Act of 1958. Similarly, when I was at law school we were advised to take at least 1 'non-statutory' = non-technical course each semester, again to keep from getting too 'stale' or focused on a single subject or way of thinking to the exclusion of all others. So do take something other than math and science to stretch your mind a little bit. English composition would be good - others have mentioned music - art of some kind, maybe. And no one says you can't also listen to or look at the railroad as it appears in those media . . .
Bob also mentioned typing. And economics - just not too much of it, to the exclusion of anything else that isn't technical.
Bob also mentioned grammar. In my senior year of high school I 'downgraded' my curriculum to avoid the high-brow 'Advanced Placement' English literature course taught by Dr. Betty Falkenstein because it was too abstract and imaginary for me (if the author had a message to convey, why didn't he come right out and say it, instead of hiding it behind all kinds of confusing symbolism and the like ?) Instead, I took the College-Prep English grammar and composition course with John Turnbull - who was also the school's drama coach - mainly because I knew I was weak on that and needed to work on it a lot. It was way more fun with Turnbull - he knew what I was up to, and appreciated it - and I met and associated with a new and different group of classmates - less isolated and haughty than many of the AP group, etc. I don't regret any of it.
Something else, perhaps not 'politically correct' but important and probably not too offensive here - diversity and multi-culturalism. Specifically, the important parts of the world are not all white guys from middle-class America. I went to a public school system in suburban Philadelphia all my life, and the high school from 1969 - 1971 was about 1,500 students altogether in 10th - 12th grades. Most of the kids were middle and upper class whites, fairly well off. But about 1/3 or 1/4 were poorer and either black or Hispanic, and we had to learn to interact with them in the classes, in gym and showers, in the cafeteria, and the after-school activities such as sports and band, etc. When I went to work at age 22, I was soon supervising a couple crews that were mostly blacks from Philadelphia or the South, as well as a variety of 'ne'er-do-wells' from various other places, not all of whom got along well together - coal miners, 'Pennsylvania Dutch', etc. I was able to do that - and relate well and deal with a lot of customers, suppliers, union officials, cops, etc. in a variety of industries - I think mainly because I'd had that experience. My 4 cousins on my father's side all went to an exclusive private school, and 2 of them have pretty much struggled through life. On my mother's side, those cousins also went to public schools, and were 'Army brats' for their first 10 -15 years. As a result, my one cousin there - with an MBA from Drexel Univ. - travels and does business deals with people all over the world, from Arkansas to China to Europe. So draw your own conclusions from all this.
For better or worse, it seems that everything is pervaded by electronics these days, so that is something very useful to know. Understanding that starts with physics, which has already been mentioned. But electronics quickly becomes saturated with math of all kinds, so that's another reason to take a lot of math courses and to do well in them.
By my senior year, I'd finished the required 4 years of foreign languages - after coming as close to flunking the 1st year French course as I ever did. It was an absolutely fantastic weekend in early Sept. 1970 when I could drop that course (and also saw ex-NKP steamer 2-8-4 759 running over and back from Horseshoe Curve with an excursion ). So to fill that space in my schedule, I took another elective math course - Probablilty and Statistics, also known as 'Real Math'. I don't gamble - and maybe what I learned there is another reason why - but the insights and analytical skills from that course have been pretty valuable from time to time.
I'd also encourage the gym/ physical fitness classes, mainly to be able to pass the railroad's physical fitness exam without having to worry about carrying or getting rid of excess pounds (me too, here ). If you have to put in time as a conductor before qualifying for engineer training, and/ or if you get assigned as an Radio/ Remote Controlled Unit operator/ engineer, you'll be doing a lot of walking - sometimes on unstable surfaces - and hanging off the sides of moving cars, as well as lifting and setting FREDs, carrying coupler knuckles, bending down and twisting to connecting air and MU hoses, aligning coupler knuckles and drawbars, applying and releasing hand brakes, throwing switch stands, etc. It wouldn't do to be side-lined with a back or foor or shoulder injury that could have been prevented, esp. if you were more limber or agile.
Well, enough. To conclude, I noticed that your Original Post is composed and spelled much better than seems to be typical for you on here. It shows that you put some care and effort into it, and I'm sure that is a factor in the number and quality of the responses that you've received so far. Good luck with your course choices.
- Paul North.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Justin Im going the other way with this, It dont matter to me if you want to be a engineer or a clerk, but you can bet no matter what job you get from flipping burgers to help pay for your car and money for that girlfriend to working for the railroad the main thing you must think of is what your doing now. In other words your work history, your attendance at school how you have handled resposibility ( going to school with good grades and holding down a part time jobs looks good for you later) Now get a education, learn learn and learn you may not need it all to be a engineer but if you want to be super attendant general manager , ( me calling you sir) you need the schooling. I know you have heard this before and its getting old, but remember one thing, if we all didnt care we wouldnt give you the sound advise you have been given,
Just take your time and learn yes it seems like if you just cut through the junk and come on out and work your doing what you want to do. trust us there is plenty of time to go after your dream the world wont end before you get out of school and not a whole lot is going to change in railroading either. enjoy your life because when you sign on to the railroad your life ends, ( freedom) I wouldnt change anything but i am one of the few .
First of all learn every thing about the job; both the positive and the negative.All jobs have them regardless of what you are doing.Ask yourself if I am willing to work nights,weekends,holidays. How do you feel about getting up at 2AM in a snowstorm to go to work ? It may sound exciting at 16 but not at 40.
There are interest inventory tests out there to see where your interests are. These tests tell you about yourself and what type of job would be best for your interests.The results may surprise you.
You will need job skills that can make you employable; get a 21ST century education with transferable skills. A lot of school districts are still acting like it is the 1970's. I hope you don't live in one of those. You have to be self motivated; do not let yourself flounder in a class you are having trouble with. Get HELP even outside of school. Sadly a lot of teachers will allow you to flounder. You are responsible for your education as much as anyone.
The previous posters all have good advice...however for T&E, the railroad really doesn't care what education you have as long as you have a high school diploma. That's not to say math, reading, etc, aren't helpful or essential to the job.
To get hired in Train and Engine service, you need a high school diploma, clean driving record, clean criminal record, clean drug test (BTW the hair test used now, goes back much farther then the tinkle test used when I hired), and be able to pass the company physical.
Now, if you want to advance beyond T&E, a college degree is required for nearly every position.
Think long and hard if you REALLY want to do this. The number of railfans I trained and saw quit within 6 months, far, far, far, far exceeds the number that stayed. Usually, after the phone rings at 3am and they have that first 14 hour day.
The preceding advice has all been very, very good.
In today's world, Spanish would be the preferred foreign language to know for anyone desiring a railroad career.
Math skills are important too. Being able to keep track of loads, empties, tons, and train length are important - and sometimes you'll have to estimate those figures as well. And wait until you get into such concepts such as tons per operative brake and tons per equivalent dynamic brake axle - figures that will govern maximum authorized speeds. Division skills will be important there as well.
A knowledge of geography is also important. I used to work with an old head yardmaster who asked me if I thought my best friend would make a good yardmaster. I spoke to the old head about my friend's attributes and I also mentioned that he practically had the national railroad map memorized. The old head was duly impressed by that little tidbit.
Knowing how to apply the fundamentals of Newtonian mechanics - something you'll learn in physics classes - will make the train dynamics concepts you need to know as a locomotive engineer easier to learn and understand.
Learning to understand what you read is very important as any "Switch Shanty Lawyer" will tell you. Being able to write declarative sentences that are grammatically correct will take you a long way in the railroad game as well. In high school I was never very good with English fiction, but excelled at grammar - a talent that has served me very well over the years.
Oh, and don't forget keyboard skills. If you're a two fingered hunt-and-peck artist, now is the time to unlearn that system and learn how the nine-finger, "QWERTY" system works. Video games may be fun, but learning how Word and Excell Spreadsheets work will serve you better in the long run.
And if you get a chance to learn something about economics, do so. Railroading in the United States, Canada, and precious few other places is, after all, a business - one which customers choose to use on a voluntary basis. Knowing what it takes to run a freight railroad as a business - how to keep and attract customers and how money is collected, spent, and invested in the enterprise will give you a greater appreciation for your job. Unfortunately I've met too many railroaders who think the railroad is just a bottomless well of money and who have a civil service motivation about ever getting a job done, or done well.
I have been told by a few railroaders that many railfans who go to work for a railroad quit soon afterwards. I do not think it is a good idea to tailor your whole education to becoming a locomotive engineer. Also, I heard that the average college student changes majors three times. It is probably safe to assume that high school students change their minds even more so. My guess is that very few people what the same career by the time they graduate high school that they wanted when they were freshmen.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
MP173 One other thing I would add....attempt to be able to communicate in a foreign language. A niece just secured a job with a large pharmacutical company based on her ability to speak French. Spanish and French could definately come in handy in this continent. Ed
One other thing I would add....attempt to be able to communicate in a foreign language. A niece just secured a job with a large pharmacutical company based on her ability to speak French.
Spanish and French could definately come in handy in this continent.
Ed
The quality of the foreign language program is important though. I took four years of Spanish during high school. I got excellent grades in it, but I don't feel that I have a very good grasp of the language. However, I do agree that learning at least the basics of a foreign language isn't a bad idea.
Willy
Learn the basics (readin', writin', and 'rithmetic), and learn them well. Write a lot, read more.
Learn how to present your thoughts well, both spoken and written. Spelling and pronunciation do count. Learn how to balance a checkbook and make change.
Don't forget extracurricular activities. They may not weigh as heavily should you work for the railroad, but if you change your focus, they'll bear fruit for you. Colleges and employers often like to see such activities on your application/resume.
If you stay focused on your schoolwork and extracurricular stuff, you'll have a lot less time to get in trouble.
But don't forget to have some fun, too.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
As was stated before, stay out of trouble.
DWI, public intoxication, any narcotic charge, any felony conviction and any serious civil trouble will find it way into your record, even though you are currently a minor.
Railroads will not hire you with any of those on your record.
Don't worry about any one single high school class making much of a difference in being hired.
What the carriers are looking for is a well rounded education, physical stamina, basic math and communication skill, and the ability to understand and follow orders.
One of the main reasons they like to hire former military is just that, ex military usually can stand the physical and mental grind, and are used to following orders.
On most roads, you will hire out on the ground as a conductor, work up to engine service, and if you want, into middle management.
If, as right now, no one is hiring for T&E service, you may consider taking a position in the MOW craft, as most of the local union contract will specify that when a training class for T&E starts, the carrier has to accept a craft to craft transfer first, before filling the class with "new hires"
JUSTIN:
The preceeding posters have each offered you some very sound advice. Math and Science will serve you very well in any endeavor you eventually wind up in. Read and absorb their advice.
Not knowing where you live, I am taking a stab at this, so bear with me. In the Hot-Lanta area you might want to visit these folks, I reacll from living in Fayetteville, they had a very good reputation and it would be a good place to check out, here's their link: http://www.clayton.edu/
and if you follow this linked section as well, you'll scroll down to this information for School of Technology:
Program in Railroad Operations
RAILROAD OPERATIONS(Associate of Applied Science)
The Railroad Operations Program is designed to provide the academic foundation and technical skills and knowledge necessary to acquire technical positions in the railroad industry. The curriculum has been designed in association with the National Railroad Multimedia Training Consortium, which is supported by Norfolk Southern, Burlington Northern, CSX Transportation, CP Rail System, CNNorth American, and Union Pacific.
Here is another link for you to explore also: http://thebecketts.com/beckettsdepot/choo.htm
Yep! I'm on my soapbox!
Junior college is a wonderful place to get your education started. You can get the required courses for studies out of the way in a good transitional environment from high school to college level. Then go on to your specialized studies at the university or college level for your specialization. (seel Univ. of ILL., for instance)
I know you will be a long while before you fully understand, but your education will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. You are at the best time of your life to complete your education, it will never be easier than right now. Take if from somebody who started in 1969 and finished in 2007, with about a 30 year hiatus in the middle.
Good Luck, Justin!
My advice (in addition to all of the good stuff listed above): STAY OUT OF TROUBLE!! Avoid peer pressure to do dumb stuff (reckless driving, drugs, alcohol, unprotected sex). Think for yourself.
If you get yourself convicted of a felony, your chances for railroad employment are reduced to almost zero. Actually, your chances of getting ANY employment will be minimal at best.
Justin:
As others have said, you should really just work toward your graduation requirements. I would think that science and math courses might really come in handy for a job with the railroad, but be careful which courses you take. For example, I suspect that physics would be much more useful than biology. You'll need to know a lot more about friction, drag, work, and forces than the structure of a cell for your job on the railroad. The same applied to me, since I hope to be a meteorologist one day in the not-so-distant future.
If I recall correctly, this is what my courses Freshman year were:
You really don't have that much choice freshman and sophomore years. Once you get to your junior and senior years, you can start tailoring your classes more toward what you'll need for your future profession.
Through the rest of my high school career, my math courses were geometry, algebra II/trigonometry, and pre-calculus. And that wasn't the end of it. Right now, I'm struggling through Calculus II at Creighton University, with Calculus III in my future!
The other science courses that I took were chemistry, physics, and AP physics. Again, I think you'd be better off taking physics rather than something like chemistry or biology.
Also, do the very best you can on your placement exam. Your scores on that will determine where you start in courses like math. For example, you could end up starting with pre-algebra, algebra I, or geometry, depending on your score on the placement test.
You will probably also have an advisor of some sort who should get you started on the right track.
Of course, things might work differently where you are, but that's how it was for me.
Justin:My freshman son is downstairs right now doing trigonometry homework. I helped him this weekend and offered this advice....take as much math as possible. I think with the Core40 here in Indiana you must take 4 years of math, but dont skimp on it. You will use it, as Carl said.
Ditto the science. While you are at it, learn to write well. That never goes out of style. See what other electives your school offers.
Are you interested in athletics or band? My son plays basketball and the time management requirements are great. He has to balance quite a bit and learn to use time wisely.
Soak it all in. Find what interests you and if you change your mind (on railroading) you will be like most of the adults. (changing careers).
Good luck,
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