Electroliner 1935 desertdog My dad would also buy coal dust that had been shaped into bricks that were wrapped in heavy paper. We burned those "Bricks" one winter. Company called them "HAPPY PACKS" much cleaner than lump coal with all its fines and dust. One winter, my dad got a load of coke. Boy, did it burn hot. Had to be very careful on how much air you let in to the firebox or the fire would "run away". Steam boiler, safety set at 10 lbs. Sometime in the late fifties, it was converted to oil and we got a thermostat.
desertdog My dad would also buy coal dust that had been shaped into bricks that were wrapped in heavy paper.
We burned those "Bricks" one winter. Company called them "HAPPY PACKS" much cleaner than lump coal with all its fines and dust. One winter, my dad got a load of coke. Boy, did it burn hot. Had to be very careful on how much air you let in to the firebox or the fire would "run away". Steam boiler, safety set at 10 lbs. Sometime in the late fifties, it was converted to oil and we got a thermostat.
Worked the B&O station at Lester, Ohio in the late 1960's. Heating was a coal stove. Company would deliver a ton or two to the coal bunker. Coke trains operated past Lester inroute to the mills in Cleveland - coke would sometimes fall off these trains, and in the spare times of the Operators they would police the area and collect the coke to use to supplement the heat output produced by the coal. Grate life suffered.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
desertdogMy dad would also buy coal dust that had been shaped into bricks that were wrapped in heavy paper.
Overmod bbrant I know of several people who still have, and use, the old coal furnaces to heat their homes. Here in Somerset there are still some older commercial buildings that still burn coal for heat as well as the schools in the Somerset Area School District. Not a whole lot left but there are still some places (not counting the outdoor burners) that use coal for heat. That wouldn't likely be the same kind of coal involved in this derailment. You will not have fun trying to burn bituminous, whether steam or met coal, in a furnace set up for efficient operation on anthracite. Let alone subbituminous PRB grades if that's what is involved here.
bbrant I know of several people who still have, and use, the old coal furnaces to heat their homes. Here in Somerset there are still some older commercial buildings that still burn coal for heat as well as the schools in the Somerset Area School District. Not a whole lot left but there are still some places (not counting the outdoor burners) that use coal for heat.
That wouldn't likely be the same kind of coal involved in this derailment. You will not have fun trying to burn bituminous, whether steam or met coal, in a furnace set up for efficient operation on anthracite. Let alone subbituminous PRB grades if that's what is involved here.
I dimly remember my parents' coal furnace in west sububan Chicago, initially hand-fired, later an Iron Fireman stoker. In both cases, the coal was bituminous (source unknown).
BaltACDAs I recall, the derailed train originated from Bailey Mine in SW Pennsylvania and was headed for Export through the Port of Baltimore.
If so, bituminous steam coal, about 13000 BTU/lb and sulfur at 2.38%.
As I recall, the derailed train originated from Bailey Mine in SW Pennsylvania and was headed for Export through the Port of Baltimore. Bailey is the highest production of all the SW Pennsylvania mines and loads 7 trains a day when operating at capacity. Both CSX & NS haul train to destination, NS serves the mine.
bbrantI know of several people who still have, and use, the old coal furnaces to heat their homes. Here in Somerset there are still some older commercial buildings that still burn coal for heat as well as the schools in the Somerset Area School District. Not a whole lot left but there are still some places (not counting the outdoor burners) that use coal for heat.
It will seemingly be costly to recover the spilled coal at the CSX derailment, but seems they are at least trying to recover what they can.
Have no idea what it might be used for {or where}, when it has been "cleaned" and processed to remove rocks and metal from it. But I imagine CSX will recoup something for that effort.
On the use of coal in heating buildings: I'd say there are quite a few business buildings and some private homes using coal yet as heating fuel in different parts of the country.
Steam or hot water boiler / radiator systems produce good heat, and with stoker fed and of course draft / thermostat controled, the heating system can be pretty productive....and in some areas, with less cost for that fuel, is still a viable way of doing it.
Quentin
grampaw pettiboneSeeing that scrap pile made me wonder. Does the railroad re-use the wheelsets after a major derailment, or are they considered damaged and scrapped. Is there a procedure for testing them or are they simply discarded?
Seeing that scrap pile made me wonder. Does the railroad re-use the wheelsets after a major derailment, or are they considered damaged and scrapped. Is there a procedure for testing them or are they simply discarded?
If a wheelset derails, it is for scrap.
Seems to me those wheel treads and rims should have some major discoloration due to heavy brakiing. Maybe it's the photos/shadows, etc I don't see it.
We burned coal up until the early 1950's when the natural gas pipeline was extended into our part of the Midwest. To keep on topic (sort of), the coal was delivered in L&N "Old Reliable" hopper cars via the Milwaukee Road. My dad would also buy coal dust that had been shaped into bricks that were wrapped in heavy paper.
John Timm
bbrant MP173 Back in the day, we would have been out with our coal buckets picking up the salvage and burning it that night. Things have changed in 40 years. Did anyone else here burn coal in their house? We did change over to wood. Ed Ed - I know of several people who still have, and use, the old coal furnaces to heat their homes. Here in Somerset there are still some older commercial buildings that still burn coal for heat as well as the schools in the Somerset Area School District. Not a whole lot left but there are still some places (not counting the outdoor burners) that use coal for heat. Brian
MP173 Back in the day, we would have been out with our coal buckets picking up the salvage and burning it that night. Things have changed in 40 years. Did anyone else here burn coal in their house? We did change over to wood. Ed
Back in the day, we would have been out with our coal buckets picking up the salvage and burning it that night.
Things have changed in 40 years.
Did anyone else here burn coal in their house? We did change over to wood.
Ed
Ed -
I know of several people who still have, and use, the old coal furnaces to heat their homes. Here in Somerset there are still some older commercial buildings that still burn coal for heat as well as the schools in the Somerset Area School District. Not a whole lot left but there are still some places (not counting the outdoor burners) that use coal for heat.
Brian
Interesting question and something I never thought of. My guess would be that if they're reusable they would be reused. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can answer.
Tom
COAST LINE FOREVER
It is better to dwell in the corner of a roof than to share a house with a contentious woman! (Solomon)
A contentious woman is like a constant dripping! (Solomon)
We lived in a house for several years that had a gravity (air) coal furnace. The cinders went on the driveway.
I was out on our line a couple of years ago putting up a "station" sign at a point where there used to be some industry and a siding. The sign went in about a quarter mile from the nearest crossing (fortunately), and on either the walk to or from where I planted the sign I found a small chunk of coal on the ballast. Since the last freight train ran in the 70's, and all the locomotives were oil burners (state law), I have no idea how long that chunk had been there. There's no other reason than the railroad for it to be where it was.
It's been a while since that line saw a good going over, track and roadbed-wise, too.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
We didnt have a furnace, but an old stove. After arriving home from school, I would take the coal buckets and fill each and then grab a few corn cobs for kindlin.
A few years later we replaced that stove with a wood stove that really put out the heat.
Most of the house was sorta cold, but I got used to it. To this day, I prefer a cold house in teh winter...unless I am cold or wet.
The Butler Brian, thanks for the pictures. They bring things in to perspective. What happens to all the coal? Does it get reloaded then sent somewhere to be "cleaned?"
Brian, thanks for the pictures. They bring things in to perspective.
What happens to all the coal? Does it get reloaded then sent somewhere to be "cleaned?"
James -
My supervisor has a cousin who is one of the truck drivers hauling the coal away. He said they were taking it to a local plant where it would need to be gone over with a magnet to remove pieces from the wreckage that are now mixed in with the coal. It will also need to be screened to remove any rocks and other pieces of debris. I'm unsure how it will be shipped out after that.
Seems to me like a lot of work to recover the coal but I guess there must still be room to make a profit if someone is willing to go through this process.
Hi Quentin! Glad I could share the pictures with you and everyone else on here. Just wished the sun had been out but that's a rarity around here as of late. What a site to see all the cars, parts and coal everywhere! Even more amazing to know that nobody was hurt.!
All is well with me and the family. Hope all is well with you and your family too.
MP173 Did anyone else here burn coal in their house? We did change over to wood.
.....Burn coal to heat our homes. Yes....It was totally normal in the small town I grew up in, in Pennsylvania, about 30 mi. from the wreck we're talking about...The home system, was coal fired, into a hot water boiler furnace, raditator system, to each room, hot water gravity circulated {2 story home}....Excellent heating system. Used to like to set on a radiator and soak up heat after being out sled riding, etc....By the way, many home systems I speak of were stoker fed and controlled with automatic thermostats. I speak of mostly back in the 40's.
Item: That home is still heated by the hot water {radiator system}, but has been chenged to an oil fired boiler, and a pump system to circulate the hot water to the raditators. And of course, thermostat controlled. Most are now in the same area....Changed over from coal to oil.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
bbrant Here's a link to some of the photos I got on Saturday and today. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=53980
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=53980
Brian, thanks for getting out there and taking these, and for sharing them !
The 'mobile home' in the 1st one looks like it wasn't occupied - all the snow around it seems untouched. With how close it is to the wreck, that's a good thing !
As former Trains librarian George H. Drury once said about passing a similar scene - most of those hopper cars are ''looking considerably used up'' !
This a rare opportunity for those of us who are not in the Mechanical Dept. or working for a carshop to see the undersides of hopper cars and take in all the details, unhindered by deep shadows, trucks, adjoining cars, track immediately below, etc.
But I like the last photo the best. That pile of wheels/axles, truck side frames, rails, and gosh-knows-what-all-else, looks just like some modern sculptures that I've seen. Kind of reminds me of an experienced model railroader's 'junk box' . . .
Thanks again.
- Paul North.
Not likely. I suspect that PA State environmental regulations will require that the coal and contaiminated dirt be removed to a landfill established to handle "dirty dirt".
The cost of cleaning and transportation could well exceed the price that might be paid in what is probably a very limited market for such coal. The original consignee of the train certainly wouldn't be interested as CSX will cover their loss and I doubt that any operators of coal fired power plants would risk the possible damage to their units.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
James
bbrant Here's a link to some of the photos I got on Saturday and today. Hello Brian.....Thanks for sharing views of the wreck site. Hope all is well with you and family.
Here's a link to some of the photos I got on Saturday and today.
Hello Brian.....Thanks for sharing views of the wreck site. Hope all is well with you and family.
Paul_D_North_Jr Hey there, wabash1 - 1) No - not from the ETT. I had a little heading in there that you might have missed. L-210 and L-240 are - "From the NS-1 - RULES FOR EQUIPMENT OPERATION AND HANDLING - EFFECTIVE: OCTOBER 1, 2007, pages 52 - 54 [60 - 62 of 143 of the 'PDF' version] at - - http://blet73.org/NS-1_Rules.pdf ". 2) [Displays-Lack-Of-Knowledge-Dept.] What do you mean by "flat dynamic" ? And what's the significance of the Dash-9's ? I recall we had a discussion about this kind of thing back in mid-August 2009 when I observed what appeared to be a rear helper pushing a double-stack EB past Horseshoe Curve, for which I still owe you a better answer, which I don't have yet. 3) There's a 'turnover form' for NS - ME-112, I think it is - that is supposed to be there at the start of each shift. If the DB is inoperative, a ME-109 tag is supposed to be filled-out and attached. I was going to post that part eventually - no, I already did = see L-210 (c), (d), and (e), quoted above. Well, first at least you then know that you have only 1 in working condition. If that's not up to the task at hand, then it's time for a 'Good Faith Challenge' - which is a whole 'nother topic. Perhaps that's what this CSX crew should have done ? - Paul North.
Hey there, wabash1 -
1) No - not from the ETT. I had a little heading in there that you might have missed. L-210 and L-240 are -
"From the NS-1 - RULES FOR EQUIPMENT OPERATION AND HANDLING - EFFECTIVE: OCTOBER 1, 2007, pages 52 - 54 [60 - 62 of 143 of the 'PDF' version] at - - http://blet73.org/NS-1_Rules.pdf ".
2) [Displays-Lack-Of-Knowledge-Dept.] What do you mean by "flat dynamic" ? And what's the significance of the Dash-9's ? I recall we had a discussion about this kind of thing back in mid-August 2009 when I observed what appeared to be a rear helper pushing a double-stack EB past Horseshoe Curve, for which I still owe you a better answer, which I don't have yet.
3) There's a 'turnover form' for NS - ME-112, I think it is - that is supposed to be there at the start of each shift. If the DB is inoperative, a ME-109 tag is supposed to be filled-out and attached. I was going to post that part eventually - no, I already did = see L-210 (c), (d), and (e), quoted above.
Well, first at least you then know that you have only 1 in working condition. If that's not up to the task at hand, then it's time for a 'Good Faith Challenge' - which is a whole 'nother topic. Perhaps that's what this CSX crew should have done ?
All dash-9 locomotives and i would say all sd70s ive ran and 60s dash 8s all have what is called flat dynamic in which all of the dynamic is in by notch 4. you only have from 1 to 4. a standard or tapered dynamic goes to notch 8 these can be mixed in your consist but is highly unlikly anymore most railroads match power types
Engineers are supposed to be informed at beggining of tour of duty of what the consist is, Now i can only speak for around here but other terminals are likely the same that when the conductor gets the paperwork they gaurd this like its a million bucks, there is a tonnage profile that is the engineers but the conductors will tell you they need it to yard the train, and wont let you have it. there is other forms that the engineer is to have but never sees, like the mechanical condition of said units. this is what engineers have wrote the units up for. as far as a me -112 good luck finding this and good luck on finding anyone who even cares if the units are running. the clerks dont care and wont go to the trouble to get the info.
the 109 if left on tagged unit is of no use as it only states that someone tagged it not for what reason, so you can cut it back in and if the thing throws fire or sparks you know why. All engineer are to be given a copy of the non-compling engines when the come on duty ive never seen this ive ask about this nobody including train masters will give you a answer, so to make it easier for you railfans to understand look at it this way. Its like having your wife mad at you, your dont have a clue as to why she is mad and your real sure you didnt do it in any way, shape, or form . Now you are dead serious that you didnt do what she is accusing you of doing anyways, but after a few days when she tells you what you did there is no way of getting the evidance to prove your innocents so she wins. WELCOME TO RAILROADING
Dealing with the dynamic issue i would have the dispatcher call the road forman of engines and tell him whats wrong with the units if that is not a option then division road forman. the last person who will tell me to take the train down a hill with out proper power will be the train master. as they ussually dont have a clue to engine operations anyways.
Paul D.North in yur post you made Ive got questions on what you posted.
1) on your post you say employee time table and then i read alittle further it seems you state that rule L 210 and rule L 240 are timetable rules. is this correct ?
2) you posted a part of the timetable that says all eastward trains except solid bulk commoditie trains operated from benny and sloop must not exceed notch 6 in dynamic, what if your engines is 3 dash-9s and are flat dynamic?
3) who gives you the paper work on condition of engines and what if out of 3 engines you only have 1 engine with operational dynamic brakes.
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