Idleing Locomotives

[BellmoreBob]

It's been five or six years since I walked around Hoboken mid-day. However, the problem there was that the diesel fleet was kept idling the entire time that the commuters were at their desks in lower Manhattan. What a cloud of pollution drifting through the air! Of course, if the HEP did not keep the air-conditioning in the coaches for the return of the commuters to the same cars, they would complain mightily. I'm all for saving power and (yes) opening windows.

[BaltACD]

CSX - for fuel conservation measures - instructs crews to shut all but one engine down (when above 40 degrees) when the crew knows the train will be on hold for 30 minutes or more (the single operating engine is able to maintain brake pipe pressure on the train). Additionally CSX has been equipping engines with a unit that is a small 20hp diesel engine that is used to keep the cooling system warm and the batteries charged on locomotives so equiped. The small engine will use about 1/2 gallon per hour vs 3 gallons per hour with the Prime Mover at idle.

In colder temperatures (20 degrees and lower) the locomotives must be left with the Prime Mover in the 3rd notch for the engine to develop enough heat to keep the cooling system from freezing, if they are not equipped with the auxilarry small diesel system.

[Anonymous]

You jump start a locomotive just like a car. We carry a set of jumper cables on every loco that are about 50 feet long. The hardest part is getting them side by side if you're not near a yard or siding, but then you just hook the cables up to the battery switches and fire it up. We have a pair of F7-A's, that for whatever reason have odd sized batteries. So we once left one running for 6 months straight until the new batteries could be custom made and shipped.
As far as idiling goes, the newer units are great. The new emd SD70ACe's have an autostart feature that starts the engine when the water temp. drops, the battery charge becomes low, or the air pressure drops. Idiling older units is just easier than starting and shutting them down all the time, and the coolant heaters and circulators work pretty well in the winter, as long as you have a place to plug them in all the time. The only problem we ever have with the plug in heaters and circulators, is freezing heater pipes in the cab and nose. The pumps don't push hard enough in extremely cold weather(-20) and the pipes under the cab will freeze most of the time without breaking. Until the engine is started and then the pipes will usually break and drop all of the water out of the engine

[Puckdropper]

I read about such a jump start somewhere, but it was from a yard switcher to another unit. I don't remember where, it may have been Trains magazine itself.

[tree68]

When I was in Illinois, I came upon what appeared to be the wrap up of a jump start of an IC engine. A RR pickup with a bed load of batteries, with the crewman just finishing coiling up the cables. At the time, IC usually left them running, so I can only assume that the engine quit and had to be restarted. Wish I'd seen the whole operation...

[Anonymous]

Sort of on topic -

I was reading about a time that up in nothern BC the weather got so cold that even though the engine was still running the liquid in the governor started to gel. So the engineer was sitting in the cab and the loco would suddenly start excelerating and decelerating all on it's own because the governor was all screwed up and not running proberly. Needless to say they gave up and called it quits for the day.

More modern locos are becoming more "off and on" friendly.
I believe there are now some out there that have anyfreeze, no?

It seems to me that it's more the attitude of the railway employees for not bothering to shut the units down.

Over at BC Rail they keep their idle locos running all the time (usually in sets of 3 dash 8s or dash 9s, five or six road loco's idling at a time) even though they arrived at the North Van yard at 6:00 in the morning and won't be used again till 3:00 in the afternoon.

Every gallon of gas adds up.

[Anonymous]

Back in the 'bad' old days of British Rail quite a number of locos were left idling because there was no guarantee that they would start again if switched off. This was particularly the case with the bus engined railcars as they got older and they would be left running all day Sunday to male sure that they were ready to go for the Monday rush hour.

preserved diesels tend to be drained of coolant if they are not going to be used for an extended period - presumably corrosion also has a part to play here.

[csxengineer98]

to start a locomotive...they have a 2 part start switch...part 1 primes the prime mover..not unlike when you start your lawn mower..and pu***he little primer plunger a few times.... on the locomotive...after 30 seconds..then you move the switch to the start postion.... this turns a big electric starting motor..not unlike one that starts your car....but bigger... on some older locomotives..they have a layshaft leaver ..when your cranking..you push in on the layshaft... this gives the prime mover more fuel and helps to start it.... .. as far as not shutting them down..in the winter...if the engin has to be shut down...and cant be restarted..it has to be drained of all water to prevent freez damage.... but only if the temp. is going to drop below 32 degrees F.... or of say the engin is in movement and the windchill is below 32.... csx has a unit called an APU...it shuts down the engin if it isnt used within 30 mins of a stop... and can automaticly restart the engin if the computer sensores detect a change in the water temp to where it needs to start the engin back up agin to keep from freezing...also the engineer can restart it my moveing the throttle once its shut down....as well as overide the shutdown..... they are nice..when the work... a major problem i have with them is in the winter...the cab heaters stop working..so they are cold when you first get on them..... and second...they dont make any air..so your air bleeds away ...........and as far as being left to idel in warm weather... they might going right back out on another job.... so they stay running...but if they arent going to be used in 30 mins..and the temp is above 40 degrees F..they are to be shut down...to safe fuel.....
its a fuel thing..not an engin ware thing....
csx engineer

[eolafan]

The constant idling is due to more severe wear and tear to the prime mover (diesel engine) when starting from a cold or shut-down condition. Economically the increased repair/maintenance costs outweigh the increased cost of diesel fuel to keep them running. The winter reasons added to this are obvious given that they do not use anti-freeze in winter. Having said all of this, the railroads with many units on their rosters are now finding it increasingly more economical to shut down units when they are not going to be used for a while given the tremendous increase in cost of diesel fuel. I seem to remember hearing that for every one cent per gallon price increase in diesel fuel, the UP spends over $1,000,000 per year in increased fuel costs. On the other hand, some roads have experimented with small diesel generator sets in the back end of units that are there solely to keep the coolant in the prime movers warm, thus allowing for prime mover shut downs when not in use.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The cooling systems do not use anti-freeze because of possible leaks (glycol that leaks into the crankcase lube oil could do serious damage) and cost (there's a lot of water in the cooling system).

[wayne]

What mechanism is used to start diesel-electric locomotives? I can understand why they are left Idleing in cold climates in the winter, but why in warmer climates and in the summer? Do their radiators have anti-freeze? What other components have to be protected from freezing and are there other reasons for being left ldleing? Wayne