Idleing Locomotives

[wayne]

What mechanism is used to start diesel-electric locomotives? I can understand why they are left Idleing in cold climates in the winter, but why in warmer climates and in the summer? Do their radiators have anti-freeze? What other components have to be protected from freezing and are there other reasons for being left ldleing? Wayne

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The cooling systems do not use anti-freeze because of possible leaks (glycol that leaks into the crankcase lube oil could do serious damage) and cost (there's a lot of water in the cooling system).

[eolafan]

The constant idling is due to more severe wear and tear to the prime mover (diesel engine) when starting from a cold or shut-down condition. Economically the increased repair/maintenance costs outweigh the increased cost of diesel fuel to keep them running. The winter reasons added to this are obvious given that they do not use anti-freeze in winter. Having said all of this, the railroads with many units on their rosters are now finding it increasingly more economical to shut down units when they are not going to be used for a while given the tremendous increase in cost of diesel fuel. I seem to remember hearing that for every one cent per gallon price increase in diesel fuel, the UP spends over $1,000,000 per year in increased fuel costs. On the other hand, some roads have experimented with small diesel generator sets in the back end of units that are there solely to keep the coolant in the prime movers warm, thus allowing for prime mover shut downs when not in use.

[csxengineer98]

to start a locomotive...they have a 2 part start switch...part 1 primes the prime mover..not unlike when you start your lawn mower..and pu***he little primer plunger a few times.... on the locomotive...after 30 seconds..then you move the switch to the start postion.... this turns a big electric starting motor..not unlike one that starts your car....but bigger... on some older locomotives..they have a layshaft leaver ..when your cranking..you push in on the layshaft... this gives the prime mover more fuel and helps to start it.... .. as far as not shutting them down..in the winter...if the engin has to be shut down...and cant be restarted..it has to be drained of all water to prevent freez damage.... but only if the temp. is going to drop below 32 degrees F.... or of say the engin is in movement and the windchill is below 32.... csx has a unit called an APU...it shuts down the engin if it isnt used within 30 mins of a stop... and can automaticly restart the engin if the computer sensores detect a change in the water temp to where it needs to start the engin back up agin to keep from freezing...also the engineer can restart it my moveing the throttle once its shut down....as well as overide the shutdown..... they are nice..when the work... a major problem i have with them is in the winter...the cab heaters stop working..so they are cold when you first get on them..... and second...they dont make any air..so your air bleeds away ...........and as far as being left to idel in warm weather... they might going right back out on another job.... so they stay running...but if they arent going to be used in 30 mins..and the temp is above 40 degrees F..they are to be shut down...to safe fuel.....
its a fuel thing..not an engin ware thing....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Back in the 'bad' old days of British Rail quite a number of locos were left idling because there was no guarantee that they would start again if switched off. This was particularly the case with the bus engined railcars as they got older and they would be left running all day Sunday to male sure that they were ready to go for the Monday rush hour.

preserved diesels tend to be drained of coolant if they are not going to be used for an extended period - presumably corrosion also has a part to play here.

[Anonymous]

Sort of on topic -

I was reading about a time that up in nothern BC the weather got so cold that even though the engine was still running the liquid in the governor started to gel. So the engineer was sitting in the cab and the loco would suddenly start excelerating and decelerating all on it's own because the governor was all screwed up and not running proberly. Needless to say they gave up and called it quits for the day.

More modern locos are becoming more "off and on" friendly.
I believe there are now some out there that have anyfreeze, no?

It seems to me that it's more the attitude of the railway employees for not bothering to shut the units down.

Over at BC Rail they keep their idle locos running all the time (usually in sets of 3 dash 8s or dash 9s, five or six road loco's idling at a time) even though they arrived at the North Van yard at 6:00 in the morning and won't be used again till 3:00 in the afternoon.

Every gallon of gas adds up.

[tree68]

When I was in Illinois, I came upon what appeared to be the wrap up of a jump start of an IC engine. A RR pickup with a bed load of batteries, with the crewman just finishing coiling up the cables. At the time, IC usually left them running, so I can only assume that the engine quit and had to be restarted. Wish I'd seen the whole operation...

[Puckdropper]

I read about such a jump start somewhere, but it was from a yard switcher to another unit. I don't remember where, it may have been Trains magazine itself.

[Anonymous]

You jump start a locomotive just like a car. We carry a set of jumper cables on every loco that are about 50 feet long. The hardest part is getting them side by side if you're not near a yard or siding, but then you just hook the cables up to the battery switches and fire it up. We have a pair of F7-A's, that for whatever reason have odd sized batteries. So we once left one running for 6 months straight until the new batteries could be custom made and shipped.
As far as idiling goes, the newer units are great. The new emd SD70ACe's have an autostart feature that starts the engine when the water temp. drops, the battery charge becomes low, or the air pressure drops. Idiling older units is just easier than starting and shutting them down all the time, and the coolant heaters and circulators work pretty well in the winter, as long as you have a place to plug them in all the time. The only problem we ever have with the plug in heaters and circulators, is freezing heater pipes in the cab and nose. The pumps don't push hard enough in extremely cold weather(-20) and the pipes under the cab will freeze most of the time without breaking. Until the engine is started and then the pipes will usually break and drop all of the water out of the engine

[BaltACD]

CSX - for fuel conservation measures - instructs crews to shut all but one engine down (when above 40 degrees) when the crew knows the train will be on hold for 30 minutes or more (the single operating engine is able to maintain brake pipe pressure on the train). Additionally CSX has been equipping engines with a unit that is a small 20hp diesel engine that is used to keep the cooling system warm and the batteries charged on locomotives so equiped. The small engine will use about 1/2 gallon per hour vs 3 gallons per hour with the Prime Mover at idle.

In colder temperatures (20 degrees and lower) the locomotives must be left with the Prime Mover in the 3rd notch for the engine to develop enough heat to keep the cooling system from freezing, if they are not equipped with the auxilarry small diesel system.

[BellmoreBob]

It's been five or six years since I walked around Hoboken mid-day. However, the problem there was that the diesel fleet was kept idling the entire time that the commuters were at their desks in lower Manhattan. What a cloud of pollution drifting through the air! Of course, if the HEP did not keep the air-conditioning in the coaches for the return of the commuters to the same cars, they would complain mightily. I'm all for saving power and (yes) opening windows.

[Anonymous]

While watching trains in Elkhart the other day, I noticed a NS loco with the label on it (Auto Start). Why do they need this and how does it work?
Al

[Puckdropper]

QUOTE:
While watching trains in Elkhart the other day, I noticed a NS loco with the label on it (Auto Start). Why do they need this and how does it work?

The label is on there for maintenace crew warnings. They see the label, and verify the auto start feature is disabled and the engine off before doing work. Nothing's worse than a engine starting up (Especially one capable of 300+ PSI of pressure in the cylinders) right after you've loosened or removed something important.

The auto start, I imagine, monitors several things: Cabin temperature, fluids temperature, battery, throttle position, etc... When one of these things is not in it's appropriate state (Lets say the cabin is too warm) the monitoring device starts the diesel engine. The biggest reason they have this is to save gas.

[Randy Stahl]

At CN we are instructed to shut down any engines not being used. Yes we do have to jump start locomotives more , we find all the bad batterys, sometimes a locomotive will have a tag hanging on the isolation switch warning of weak batteries,that the locomotive probably will not start if it is shut down. many times the cause for a locomotive failing to crank is not the batterys but the starter motors. Neither are much fun to change. The starter motors each weigh 80 lbs, EMD locomotives have two starters, they look like bigger versions of a Chevrolet. The unitized batterys weigh 400 lbs each and cannot be changed without a forklift. Older EMD locomotives use the DC main generator to crank the engine. Older G.E. locomotives use a fairly large motor geared to the flywheel. Newer G.E. locomotives use the A/C traction alternator along with a crank thyrister panel to turn the engine.

[csxengineer98]

i found out that if the engin dosnt want to turn over while cranking... like thier is enought juice to get the starter motor to go..but not enough to fire up the prime mover......i go shut down all the electrial opptionas...lights..radio... AC or heaters..anything that would take away power from the startup.... and 9 times out of 10..it works...engin then fires right up...sometimes the batterys are weak... and just one extra electrical thing might make the differnace from sitting dead..or starting up
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Another thing you can do on emd engines is open up two or three of the flashcocks on the prime mover to make it turn over.

Word to the wise, always wear safety glasses and stand clear when starting an engine with flashcocks open.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rgemd

Another thing you can do on emd engines is open up two or three of the flashcocks on the prime mover to make it turn over.

Word to the wise, always wear safety glasses and stand clear when starting an engine with flashcocks open.

whats a flushcock?
csx engineer

[edblysard]

Something you dont brag to your girlfriend about?

Ed

[Anonymous]

I like the sound of a engine when it is parked waiting for other trains to pass nice sound. Between Becker and Big lake it goes from 2 tracks to 1 track. the 1 track is about 15 miles long so here in Becker during the busy time we get alot of trains that are sitting and waiting as the dispatcher tells what train should go first and 2nd and etc. Plus we have the Becker Coal Power Plant so a few times a day the coal train goes up into the NSP plant it moves in slow of course so other trains have to sit and wait around.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Something you dont brag to your girlfriend about?

Ed

oh right![:D] CSX Engineer -- I'll rise to your bait (although I'll bet you know perfectly well what they are!!!) -- many (if not all??) large diesel engines have a small valve on each cylinder which you can open. Then when you turn the engine over, any liquid which might have gotten into the cylinder will squirt out the **** (hence the safety gear!) and not cause problems... 'cause liquids don't compress, and cranking an engine with liquid in one or more cylinders can cause all kinds of really expensive type problems...[xx(]

[Anonymous]

In the yard I worked at, we had a 100' set of jumper cables so we could jump from another unit in the consist. We also had a flashing light on a temp switch set at 40 deg. F. . When it went off we were running around starting everything that would run. If not we would kick open the drain valves and dump the water. The only units that I know of that use antifreeze are true MAC90's and AC6000's.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Something you dont brag to your girlfriend about?

Ed

oh right![:D] CSX Engineer -- I'll rise to your bait (although I'll bet you know perfectly well what they are!!!) -- many (if not all??) large diesel engines have a small valve on each cylinder which you can open. Then when you turn the engine over, any liquid which might have gotten into the cylinder will squirt out the **** (hence the safety gear!) and not cause problems... 'cause liquids don't compress, and cranking an engine with liquid in one or more cylinders can cause all kinds of really expensive type problems...[xx(]

serousely..i didnt know what you where talking about... all the power i hvae ever been on all have auto drains to flush anything out when you start them up.... and power that has had the auto drain removed...i just start them up like any other locomotive...lol
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

I cannot believe Railroads such as CSX & CN-IC, still shut down units entirely. .....AND crews having to use jumper cables !!! Good Grief ...Is that 3 rd world or what ?.....I really feel sorry for anyone that has to work for CSX or especially CN-IC...At BNSF,we isolate the unit,let the auto -start manage the prime mover & components...NEVER shut the unit totally down electricicaly on the road, that is asking for trouble...Sounds like railroading in India or Pakistan....I guess that is why we move freight at 70 mph while the BUSH league guys poke along at 40 mph,,,AFTER using jumper cables to start the locomotives.... Good Grief......THIS PROVES, the east does not have a clue how to railroad.........BNSF- BARSTOW,CALIFORNIA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Something you dont brag to your girlfriend about?

Ed

CSX guy is F.O.S THEY STILL RUN WOODEN AXLES ON THE CHICKEN S$!& EXPRESS........
oh right![:D] CSX Engineer -- I'll rise to your bait (although I'll bet you know perfectly well what they are!!!) -- many (if not all??) large diesel engines have a small valve on each cylinder which you can open. Then when you turn the engine over, any liquid which might have gotten into the cylinder will squirt out the **** (hence the safety gear!) and not cause problems... 'cause liquids don't compress, and cranking an engine with liquid in one or more cylinders can cause all kinds of really expensive type problems...[xx(]

[Anonymous]

Older EMD's have what is called a soak down pump. It runs for 5 minutes or so after you shut down to keep the turbocharger bearings from burning up. Then prior to starting, you need to run a prelube pump for 20 minutes or so to get the juices flowing. So, a restart take at least 25 minutes, not counting the coffee run!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Something you dont brag to your girlfriend about?

Ed

Flushcocks are also called blowdown valves. You need to blowdown an engine that has sat cold for a while because condensation forms in the cylinders. Condensation is water, which doesn't compress. If you don't open the blowdown valve and crank the engine to blow the water out, you risk breaking pistons, rods and/or crankshafts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: [an engineer who doesnt know what a flashcock aka cylindercock is?
must not have worked as a hostler or helper.[8][8]

QUOTE:

ship it on the frisco!

• Reply
• Edit