China HSR screeches to a halt

[BaltACD]

China's HSR was brought to a halt by a unknown smoker

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091230/od_nm/us_china_train_smoker

[tomikawaTT]

Smokey had better hope they don't catch him.  If they do, he'll probably spend a few years as guest of the state for sabotage of an essential national resource.

Chuck

[Modelcar]

.....Something just seems upside down.....The Chinese have the money to lend us....{of course from us being their mega customer}.....and still have money to have probably the largest military.......and still enough left over to construct such transportation units as this......!  I'm sure we all know what our financial situation is.....

[diningcar]

Modelcar

.....Something just seems upside down.....The Chinese have the money to lend us....{of course from us being their mega customer}.....and still have money to have probably the largest military.......and still enough left over to construct such transportation units as this......!  I'm sure we all know what our financial situation is.....

But to put this in perspective we should recognize and acknowledge they have no enviornmental impact statement, or any other permitting before they build, The NIMBY's and BANANA's do not exist and would not be tolerated; and their costs are likely 20-25 percent of ours primarily because of very low labor costs.

[eolafan]

FYI, China reportedly has one of highest per capita cosumptions of cigarettes and this could lead to (at least for the guy/gal related to this incident) it could bring a whole new meaning to the phrase "CIGARETTES CAN BE HAZERDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH".

[CNW 6000]

BaltACD

China's HSR was brought to a halt by a unknown smoker

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091230/od_nm/us_china_train_smoker

From the story:
"Smoking is strictly forbidden on the Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed train, even in the toilet," a spokesman with the Guangzhou Railway Group Corporation was quoted as saying. "It could trigger the alarm and even cause equipment failures."

What kind of equipment failures could be caused by smoking?  Could a loco's exhaust trigger the same response?

[zardoz]

CNW 6000

"Smoking is strictly forbidden on the Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed train, even in the toilet," a spokesman with the Guangzhou Railway Group Corporation was quoted as saying. "It could trigger the alarm and even cause equipment failures."

I see great potential opportunity for the pranksters.

CNW 6000

Could a loco's exhaust trigger the same response?

Good thing it's an electric train.

[blownout cylinder]

zardoz

CNW 6000

Could a loco's exhaust trigger the same response?

Good thing it's an electric train.

I guess they might have ALCO's nearby?

[carnej1]

Modelcar

.....Something just seems upside down.....The Chinese have the money to lend us....{of course from us being their mega customer}.....and still have money to have probably the largest military.......and still enough left over to construct such transportation units as this......!  I'm sure we all know what our financial situation is.....

I do not want to get too off topic but China's military is only the largest in terms of manpower...they do not have the the quantity of advanced equipment (things like submarines and advanced combat aircraft) that the US and Europe have...so their military spending per capita is significantly lower..

[schlimm]

carnej1

Modelcar

.....Something just seems upside down.....The Chinese have the money to lend us....{of course from us being their mega customer}.....and still have money to have probably the largest military.......and still enough left over to construct such transportation units as this......!  I'm sure we all know what our financial situation is.....

I do not want to get too off topic but China's military is only the largest in terms of manpower...they do not have the the quantity of advanced equipment (things like submarines and advanced combat aircraft) that the US and Europe have...so their military spending per capita is significantly lower..

 

And not just per capita:

For 2008 China was #2 in military spending about $85 bil., or 6 % of the world total.

By way of contrast, the US was #1, about 607 bil., or 41% of world total.

[Modelcar]

schlimm

And not just per capita:

For 2008 China was #2 in military spending about $85 bil., or 6 % of the world total.

By way of contrast, the US was #1, about 607 bil., or 41% of world total.

No question.....Wer'e the biggest spender in military......to the point we can't afford to do much else.

[blownout cylinder]

Modelcar

schlimm

And not just per capita:

For 2008 China was #2 in military spending about $85 bil., or 6 % of the world total.

By way of contrast, the US was #1, about 607 bil., or 41% of world total.

No question.....Wer'e the biggest spender in military......to the point we can't afford to do much else.

I'd really like to know how that all breaks down too---

I remember a couple of papers I did on the militarization of space research for an econ course I took at U.W.O. ( if I could find the dang things in my files I'd be tempted to upload them). There were a few books cataloguing NASA's budget as kind of 'subsidized' by the military as well---subcontracted as it were---

[CMStPnP]

carnej1

I do not want to get too off topic but China's military is only the largest in terms of manpower...they do not have the the quantity of advanced equipment (things like submarines and advanced combat aircraft) that the US and Europe have...so their military spending per capita is significantly lower..

 This is true and repeatedly the ECONOMIST Magazine has pointed out their Budget and Economic Stats are highly inaccurate as reported.     You really can't rely on anything the Chineese Government states in public in those two areas.

 Onto the train, I am sure the Chineese skipped a number of safety measures that would otherwise be on a regular TGV because quite simply the Government does not necessarily have to answer to the people in China.

[schlimm]

CMStPnP

Onto the train, I am sure the Chineese skipped a number of safety measures that would otherwise be on a regular TGV because quite simply the Government does not necessarily have to answer to the people in China.

 

And how are you so sure of that?  What is your source of information for such a broad statement?  Have you ridden any Chinese trains lately, such as the one from Beijing to Tianjin?  The equipment on the Wuhan-Guangzhou line is built in China to Siemens-Kawasaki designs.

[CMStPnP]

schlimm

And how are you so sure of that?  What is your source of information for such a broad statement?  Have you ridden any Chinese trains lately, such as the one from Beijing to Tianjin?  The equipment on the Wuhan-Guangzhou line is built in China to Siemens-Kawasaki designs.

Take the last sentence from the passage you quoted, then combine it with the last sentence of your passage, then look into who built the signaling system for the line.     Then ask yourself, what part is Chineese?     Then read through a few books on Chineese cultural approaches in the area of how they view or respect human life.     Last, ask yourself if knowledge in operational safety can be purchased like other components of the railway line.      There you have your answer..........Professor.     

[beaulieu]

CMStPnP

 Onto the train, I am sure the Chineese skipped a number of safety measures that would otherwise be on a regular TGV because quite simply the Government does not necessarily have to answer to the people in China.

 

The Chinese could afford to skip safety measures as you say, however the Chinese government considers this a prestige project, and crashes would greatly embarrass them, particularly as they want to sell railway equipment elsewhere in the world including parts of Europe. Also wouldn't help if among the casualties were Westerners.

Likely the smoke detection system is tied into the safety system so that if it detects a fire the train is stopped, and it may take awhile to reset.

[schlimm]

CMStPnP

schlimm

And how are you so sure of that?  What is your source of information for such a broad statement?  Have you ridden any Chinese trains lately, such as the one from Beijing to Tianjin?  The equipment on the Wuhan-Guangzhou line is built in China to Siemens-Kawasaki designs.

Take the last sentence from the passage you quoted, then combine it with the last sentence of your passage, then look into who built the signaling system for the line.     Then ask yourself, what part is Chineese?     Then read through a few books on Chineese cultural approaches in the area of how they view or respect human life.     Last, ask yourself if knowledge in operational safety can be purchased like other components of the railway line.      There you have your answer..........Professor.     

Sarcasm gets you nowhere.  Your answers suggest little knowledge of China, either from books or first hand.  The logic in reasoning  your conclusions escapes me.  Your repeated misspelling of "Chineese" is odd, at best. if you turned in this level of work, I suspect you would not be very happy with your grade.

A Chinese division of General Railway Signal (an old US corporation, now part of Alstom) is a major supplier, using the CTCS-3 system, which is a European design.  I don't think anyone knowledgeable would suggest that the new Chinese lines are operated in a more dangerous manner than similar lines in other countries. 

You might try including more factual information in your contributions rather than some sort of convoluted logic.

[jclass]

I think it's important to keep in mind that there's a lot of air in China's financial bubble.

Could burst into a major financial correction.

 

Another snippet.  Several years ago, a friend who worked on set-up of high-precision machine tool manufacturing equipment requiring a temperature controlled facility told me about how a customer in China purchased their equipment, and installed it on a dirt floor in an unheated building. 

[blownout cylinder]

beaulieu

Likely the smoke detection system is tied into the safety system so that if it detects a fire the train is stopped, and it may take awhile to reset.

Precisely. I heard that the smoke detection system is tied right in with their safety system. ANY smoke will trigger a response. The Chinese did put a lot of effort into this project---doubt that they'd drop the ball on the safety features.

[CMStPnP]

schlimm

 

Sarcasm gets you nowhere.  Your answers suggest little knowledge of China, either from books or first hand.  The logic in reasoning  your conclusions escapes me.  Your repeated misspelling of "Chineese" is odd, at best. if you turned in this level of work, I suspect you would not be very happy with your grade.

A Chinese division of General Railway Signal (an old US corporation, now part of Alstom) is a major supplier, using the CTCS-3 system, which is a European design.  I don't think anyone knowledgeable would suggest that the new Chinese lines are operated in a more dangerous manner than similar lines in other countries. 

Apparently, the line of reasoning was too difficult to follow, sorry about that.    I can tell you like starting arguments from your past posts.     They usually end with you apologizing to someone.     So I was trying some levity this time.      I've worked with another Clinical Psychologist on another Discussion Forum I moderated and he was approx age 26-27 but apparently had more life experience with foriegn cultures (former Army Psyops) and more maturity.      So my expectations were high here when I wrote the response that you could follow it.     My bad.   

[Murphy Siding]

     Recently,  it seems a fair amount of the posters on this forum have taken the position that the moderators, including yours truely, are not doing a satisfactory job, in the eyes if those posters.  On a recent thread,  I tried to get some of those posters to opine what they would do in some given situations.  Even though many said we were doing it wrong,  only a scant few offered how anything should be done differently.  What follows, is,  I guess, a *friendly warning*, that this thread may or (apparantly) may not, be headed for trouble, and just needs a *gentle nudge* in the right direction.

     Gentlemen, could we please try to steer this thread back to a focus on Trains?  Let's shy away from making it a thread about:  Chinese politics, military spending, poster one-upmanship and namecalling.  Steering it back towards Trains would keep the moderators from *overreacting*, and perhps editing, locking, or deleting the thread.

     Thank you, and have a nice day.

     -Norris

[CMStPnP]

Murphy Siding

     Recently,  it seems a fair amount of the posters on this forum have taken the position that the moderators, including yours truely, are not doing a satisfactory job, in the eyes if those posters.  On a recent thread,  I tried to get some of those posters to opine what they would do in some given situations.  Even though many said we were doing it wrong,  only a scant few offered how anything should be done differently.  What follows, is,  I guess, a *friendly warning*, that this thread may or (apparantly) may not, be headed for trouble, and just needs a *gentle nudge* in the right direction.

     Gentlemen, could we please try to steer this thread back to a focus on Trains?  Let's shy away from making it a thread about:  Chinese politics, military spending, poster one-upmanship and namecalling.  Steering it back towards Trains would keep the moderators from *overreacting*, and perhps editing, locking, or deleting the thread.

     Thank you, and have a nice day.

     -Norris

I'll give you feedback... 

As a past Moderator on a much more raucous Military website, your doing OK.     I don't think any of the Mods are over-reacting in these forums.     Just my personal opinion.     You have to strike a balance with some political talk versus too much and thats hard to do as a Moderator.    

I read about the Trucking thread.    I would have let it go on personally as long as it remained emotionally calm.    Trucking has been and is related to railroading on the Intermodal side. 

I have NOT seen a lot of threads closed here or deleted but I do not visit that much.     On slower moving forums it's tougher to make judgement calls because the opportunity does not arise as often as faster moving forums.

[Convicted One]

diningcar

, The NIMBY's and BANANA's do not exist and would not be tolerated; and their costs are likely 20-25 percent of ours primarily because of very low labor costs.

The great wall of china has GOT to be one of the most formidable examples of  "nimbyism"  to have ever existed on this earth.