Silver Streak Slip-Up?

[bubbajustin]

I saw the film, Silver Streak today. I was wondering if some of the proceedings are correct, or pure camera trick?

The locomotive engineer operating the FP7’s on the left side.

Steam coming out of the top and bottom of the locomotives

If you decoupled the cars would the breaks apply and bring the remaining cars to a stop.

I bet it is pretty close to impossible to decouple those Budd cars, or and rail car for that matter, when the slack is pulled tight.

Would 2 FP7’s really travel that far into Chicago’s “Central” station, and only sustain a large crack in the front of the unit, and some busted glass?

Any other things that aren’t correct?

Are all the switches in yards run by a computer that can’t be overridden in the case of an emergency?

Nevertheless, it sure makes for a good movie doesn’t it?

Thanks for answering my questions!

Justin

[BaltACD]

I saw the film, Silver Streak today. I was wondering if some of the proceedings are correct, or pure camera trick?

The locomotive engineer operating the FP7’s on the left side.
CNW with their English style running I believe had the engineer on the left side of the cab.

Steam coming out of the top and bottom of the locomotives
Steam out of the top would have pop off from the steam generator, from below the engine would have been from the steam trainline connections.  There should also have been steam coming from the rear car's steam train line connection.

If you decoupled the cars would the breaks apply and bring the remaining cars to a stop.
A normal air brake system would have stopped both ends of the train.

I bet it is pretty close to impossible to decouple those Budd cars, or and rail car for that matter, when the slack is pulled tight.
With slack stretched, the pin can't be pulled.  While a train is in motion on anything other than a up grade, slack will be moving within the train.  True engineers are controlling how that slack moves.  

Would 2 FP7’s really travel that far into Chicago’s “Central” station, and only sustain a large crack in the front of the unit, and some busted glass?
Damage from each and every collision is unique...you don't really know what you are hitting until you hit it.  Facades are not normally substantial constructions. 

Any other things that aren’t correct?
The swinging Signal....No No NO. 

Are all the switches in yards run by a computer that can’t be overridden in the case of an emergency?
Switches and signals can be changed, however, all of them have time out features.  Once the decision is made to change a route that has been previously lined....the signal system will 'run time' for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes before the route can be changed.  This is to prevent a conflicting route to be lined before the train operating under the original route can be safely stopped.

Nevertheless, it sure makes for a good movie doesn’t it?

Thanks for answering my questions!

Justin

[CShaveRR]

BaltACD

The locomotive engineer operating the FP7’s on the left side.
CNW with their English style running I believe had the engineer on the left side of the cab.

Most assuredly not the case--as a fireman or brakeman on various runs, it was I who was responsible for snagging the train orders from my cab window and taking them to the engineer for reading and study.

Please don't take this personally, but I've heard 'way too much about the CNW's left-handed running being "English" in origin. The official explanation is not like that, and the plausible explanation (which now happens to coincide with the official one) refutes it.

BaltACD

Are all the switches in yards run by a computer that can’t be overridden in the case of an emergency?
Switches and signals can be changed, however, all of them have time out features.  Once the decision is made to change a route that has been previously lined....the signal system will 'run time' for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes before the route can be changed.  This is to prevent a conflicting route to be lined before the train operating under the original route can be safely stopped.

Consider: those yard tracks that the train went barrelling through were working tracks for the switching of cars. There is no way that any of those would have had automatic switches (I believe the hand-throw switch-stands shown will bear me out on that). Besides, no dispatcher would have used a yard track with a maximum speed of about ten miles per hour when the main track around the yard was open and available. There would have been too many factors unknown to him, or even to a yardmaster in charge of those tracks--such as location of employees at work, contents of cars on adjacent tracks (one had to expect a high-speed train to derail somewhere on a track such as this, which makes the jeopardizing of passengers' lives an action bordering on criminal).

[Anonymous]

CShaveRR

BaltACD

 

The locomotive engineer operating the FP7’s on the left side.
CNW with their English style running I believe had the engineer on the left side of the cab.

Most assuredly not the case--as a fireman or brakeman on various runs, it was I who was responsible for snagging the train orders from my cab window and taking them to the engineer for reading and study. Please don't take this personally, but I've heard 'way too much about the CNW's left-handed running being "English" in origin. The official explanation is not like that, and the plausible explanation (which now happens to coincide with the official one) refutes it.

 

Wasn't it because when they build the depots on the original single track line, they built them all on one side and then when they double tracked, they didn't feel like moving or demolishing the depots so they just laid another track and added a platform? I don't remember exactly why they didn't just use the depot for the other direction...

[grampaw pettibone]

Justin, remember it's a movie and movies tend to be removed from true life. People have noticed anomalies such as six shot revolvers that fire 27 times without reloading, changes of clothes from one scene to the next and then back again on the third, etc. Hollywood, FWIW, knows very little about railroads and cares less, so just enjoy it and disregard the inaccuravies. BTW, SILVER STREAK was an excellent movie...

[CShaveRR]

Ty, you have the correct explanation. Now just think about it: stations are used primarily by passengers who will be getting onto trains, because they want to buy tickets, stay out of the weather, or whatever. People getting off the trains go somewhere else, usually involving a trip home. This primarily involves Chicagoland commuting, but those would have been the first portions of the railroad to be multiple-tracked.

So, when a second track was built, it was naturally built on the side opposite all of the depot platforms. That new track, not blessed with a building designed to accommodate a bunch of boarding passengers (may have had a shelter but it wouldn't have an agent of its own), became the track for outbound trains. The track nearest the stations became the inbound track. CNW's stations were built to the north or west sides of the right-of-way, so this setup favored left-handed running. (CB&Q's stations, on the other hand, just happened to be on the south side of the tracks, so right-handed operation worked better.)

[CShaveRR]

Back to the original topic: Silver Streak was indeed a funny movie, and the perpetrated misconceptions about railroad operations were just more funny stuff to me, as preposterous as other parts of the plot. I guess it wasn't gut-busting, more like eye-rolling.

There were many other railroad inaccuracies, Justin. (Dead-man's pedals didn't work like that, for example.) And some of the geographic liberties taken were pretty funny, too. The terminal tracks shown just before the final crash were those at the North Western Station in Chicago, and the station interior was that of the Toronto Union Station.

[AgentKid]

When the movie "Silver Streak" was made my Dad was a dispatcher. They used various locations in southern Alberta and southeastern BC. (See Kootenay Central's stories about it.) Dad would tell us a lot of stories about the goings on. It took a number of months as I recall to make the movie. The one thing I do remember is when he told us about how the train crews caught on to the movie making biz. At first nobody wanted to do it so younger guys got the jobs, but the movie making business is a lot of hurry up and wait and the amount of waiting coupled with very little work soon had guys at the top of the list taking those jobs. Those jobs were set up the same as MOW work train jobs and they paid real well.

An interesting tie in to current times is that when the train comes into the city before it gets to the terminal tracks mentioned by Carl, the real train is coming into Calgary NB on the Macleod Sub. A lot of the houses in the movie have been replaced by commercial buildings. But near the end of that sequence, say within a handful of city blocks, is where the Holiday Inn I mentioned staying in on the Trackside Lounge thread in early November is now located. It has got to be a decade since i last saw that movie but now I am wondering if the 42nd Ave. crossing where I saw the large covered hopper isn't in the movie. Now I am going to have to look for that movie myself. Oh well.

Bruce

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Any resemblance between a movie and the real world is strictly coincidental.  Dad (flew combat in the 8th AF) used to point out numerous inaccuracies in both the movie and TV series "12 O'Clock High", but we all enjoyed them anyway, it's still Dad's favorite movie.  I'm ready to tear my hair out with some geographic and place name inaccuracies in movies and TV series set in Chicago, but if the plot line and acting is good, I can live with it.

[zardoz]

I saw the film, Silver Streak today. I was wondering if some of the proceedings are correct, or pure camera trick?

The locomotive engineer operating the FP7’s on the left side.
CNW with their English style running I believe had the engineer on the left side of the cab.
Only when the engineer is napping and the fireman is running.
Actually, the C&NW had a few dual-control locomotives (Alco C628, inherited from N&W); but other than that, the locomotives were all standard-issue.

If you decoupled the cars would the breaks apply and bring the remaining cars to a stop.
A normal air brake system would have stopped both ends of the train.
Yes, but the weight of the locomotives would cause the head-end to travel further, especially if the units were still under power.

I bet it is pretty close to impossible to decouple those Budd cars, or and rail car for that matter, when the slack is pulled tight.
With slack stretched, the pin can't be pulled.  While a train is in motion on anything other than a up grade, slack will be moving within the train.  True engineers are controlling how that slack moves.  
However, even passenger coaches have some slack--otherwise they could not be uncoupled (and if you watch closely in the movie, you can see the slack adjusting just before he pulls the pin).

Would 2 FP7’s really travel that far into Chicago’s “Central” station, and only sustain a large crack in the front of the unit, and some busted glass?
Damage from each and every collision is unique...you don't really know what you are hitting until you hit it.  Facades are not normally substantial constructions. 
The bigger question is what would really happen when the train hit the bumping post. If you've ever seen the bumping posts in the former CNW station (which can be seen in the movie), you will note how substantial and massive they are. The impact of a train moving at any kind of speed would likely cause a lot of damage to the building structure to which the posts are anchored.

Any other things that aren’t correct?
The swinging Signal....No No NO. 
A Minnesota senator working as a baggage handler. 

Are all the switches in yards run by a computer that can’t be overridden in the case of an emergency?
Switches and signals can be changed, however, all of them have time out features.  Once the decision is made to change a route that has been previously lined....the signal system will 'run time' for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes before the route can be changed.  This is to prevent a conflicting route to be lined before the train operating under the original route can be safely stopped.
The switches with the time-out feature will be on main lines, not in yards. Yard switches are operated by hand, although in a few locations some are thrown by remote control, like in a hump yard (where Carl works).

Nevertheless, it sure makes for a good movie doesn’t it?
Absolutely; it's one of my favorites!

Considering how inaccurate railroads are portrayed in movies (actually SS wasn't too bad, considering), and if you were to ask a pilot how accurate airlines are portrayed, and ask a doctor or scientist how well hospitals and labs are portrayed, you would begin to realize that not much in movies is very accurate (artistic license reigns). You may also notice the same wonton disregard of facts when listening to news stories involving railroads (and also airlines, scientists, doctors, etc). 

It would seem the lesson to be learned is that one should not put too much trust in anything the mass-media tries to sell you. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

zardoz

  [snip]

Any other things that aren’t correct?
The swinging Signal....No No NO. 
A Minnesota senator working as a baggage handler. 

[snip]

 

But not quite.  Al Franken was ''Baggage Handler #1'' in Trading Places (1983) - see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/fullcredits#cast and 13. under Actor: at http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0291253/#actor1980 

But he's not credited anyplace in Silver Streak (1976) - compare with http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075223/fullcredits#cast 

Thanks anyway - I had never thought of that until you mentioned it.  But what I can't remember is whether he was the 'smart' one or the 'dumb' one - I'm pretty sure he was the one who was claiming it was *his* turn to drive the motorized baggage cart 'tow-motor', though . . .

- Paul North.

 

[Kootenay Central]

.

[zardoz]

Paul_D_North_Jr

zardoz

  [snip]

Any other things that aren’t correct?
The swinging Signal....No No NO. 
A Minnesota senator working as a baggage handler. 

[snip]

 

But not quite.  Al Franken was ''Baggage Handler #1'' in Trading Places (1983) -

Thanks anyway - I had never thought of that until you mentioned it.  But what I can't remember is whether he was the 'smart' one or the 'dumb' one - I'm pretty sure he was the one who was claiming it was *his* turn to drive the motorized baggage cart 'tow-motor', though . . .

- Paul North.

You are quite correct.  On both counts.

I don't know how I got the two movies confused. Except that sit next to each other on my shelf.

Too much holiday cheer perhaps.

[chatanuga]

I'm wondering how accurate they're going to make the movie Unstoppable (based on the 2001 CSX runaway), which comes out next year.

Kevin

[zardoz]

chatanuga

I'm wondering how accurate they're going to make the movie Unstoppable (based on the 2001 CSX runaway), which comes out next year.

Kevin

Well, consider the plot: A rail company frantically works to prevent an unmanned, half-mile-long freight train carrying combustible liquids and poisonous gas from wiping out a city. A veteran engineer and a young conductor chase the train in a separate locomotive in order to bring it under control before it's too late.

I suppose the best we can hope for is that they do not include a steering wheel in the cab....

Coincidentally, filming was delayed one day when part of the train accidentally derailed on November 21, 2009  http://wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=70791

[dakotafred]

Two other howlers I remember:

 1. The layout of the baggage car, with shelves, etc, and the absence of a train baggageman. The latter also pops up in a 1938 movie by Alfred Hitchcock I caught up with only last weekend, "The Lady Vanishes." In both cases, passengers were free to enter the baggage car and rummage around as they pleased.

 2. The hero rejoining his train by hopping onto a vestibule, complete with steps, at the REAR of the end car.

 You'd think a railroad-themed movie would at least call for a railroad consultant. 

[tree68]

zardoz

You may also notice the same wonton disregard of facts when listening to news stories involving railroads (and also airlines, scientists, doctors, etc). 

We have the same problem in the fire service....

[dakotafred]

I'm sorry, I should have taken more pains with my post immediately preceding.

 By "the REAR of the end car" I should hasten to add that I refer to the gated end, right above the coupler.

[rrboomer]

Locomotive steam generators don't have a "Pop off" valve.  Steam from the top would be from the manually operated orifice valve.  Fireman might use this with a small train in mild weather to keep steam generator cycling more often (drier steam),  or open it while units cut away from train for a p/u or s/o.  As in steam days Road foremen objected to this valve open as wasting steam/fuel.

To protect steam generator there was a "Stack switch" which will shut it down due to high exhaust temperature.  Normal (automatic) operation is on/off when minimum and maximum pressures obtained.  If for some reason doesn't cycle off, then stack switch will eventually.

[Deggesty]

Am I adding a memory that does not really exist when I speak of the hero's being swept off the top of the train by a semaphore blade that reaches over the train?

Johnny

[BaltACD]

Deggesty

Am I adding a memory that does not really exist when I speak of the hero's being swept off the top of the train by a semaphore blade that reaches over the train?

Johnny

It is not a semaphore blade but a cantilevered signal, and when Gene Wilder (I think) hits the cantilever - the whole apparatus swings around.

[Thomas 9011]

I thought Silver streak including the runaway scene was pretty acurate and realistic.There was a real life runaway passenger train that did loose it's brakes and did crash into Union station(in Washington.DC I believe) in 1953.More can be found here

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.shtml

If you look at the photos the damage to the locomotive it was minimal and even after they cut it into three pieces to get it out it was still good enough condition to be re built again.But getting back to the movie...

I have never seen operator controls on the conductor side of the locomotive except for Burlington northern SD9's that were used in yard service.I saw many of those locomotives with controls on both sides of the cab.

Pulling the pin on a moving train is totally possible except if the train is climbing up a grade.During normal train operation slack moves in and out all the time and you can pull the pin when slack bunches in.Even with the brakes going into emergency a train going that fast full throttle with say 10 or less cars would still be going probably pretty fast for quite a while.

Damage to the locomotives would probably be more severe as in the movie they crash through a concrete pillar.F-units are very tough as the front is rounded and deflects debris away from it as apposed to the square noses of many modern day locomotives which take all the brunt of the force head on.Metal is 1/4" thick around the nose and can take quite a wallop.F-units are idea for snow removal service for this reason.Hitting the bumber at the end of the track would probably result in the bumper flying through the air with great force.

 The majority of the yards railroads own are not computer controlled and switches can only be thrown by hand.Major yards like the ones in Chicago and NYC have swiches that can be thrown by towers and by dispatchers.

 I have seen dead mans pedal in older locomotives while visiting museums in Canada.I do believe that F unit was orginally equipped with a deads man pedal.

 

I saw many other bloopers in Silver streak.

The man shot the engineer and the engineer fell out of the locomotive.Later on the gunman gets shot in the locomotive and while shooting at the helicopter you can see a new engineer in the locomotive.The gunman also gets shot and there is no blood or bullet hole anywhere.

The gunman dies while leaning half way out the locomotive and getting hit by another train.He would have had at least 10' between locomotives.You can also see the locomotive in Silver streak pass the other train before the man gets hit.

Gene wilder pulling the pin from the wrong car.Every car has pin levers and he could have pulled the pin from the car his friends were in instead of jumping from car to car after he pulled the pin.

Before the runaway scene one of the criminals is shot in the leg.He gets up and like magic there is no bullet hole or blood on his leg.

 Man breaks window with rifle butt of gun and window shatters.Majority of windows in passenger cars and locomotives are glazed or bulletproof.They should not shatter but can be damaged.

[bubbajustin]

zardoz

chatanuga

I'm wondering how accurate they're going to make the movie Unstoppable (based on the 2001 CSX runaway), which comes out next year.

Kevin

Well, consider the plot: A rail company frantically works to prevent an unmanned, half-mile-long freight train carrying combustible liquids and poisonous gas from wiping out a city. A veteran engineer and a young conductor chase the train in a separate locomotive in order to bring it under control before it's too late.

I suppose the best we can hope for is that they do not include a steering wheel in the cab....

Coincidentally, filming was delayed one day when part of the train accidentally derailed on November 21, 2009  http://wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=70791

Thanks for answering my questions. Here is a toast to how good the movie is.

[rdamon]

I always chuckle when the dwarf signal turns red and you hear a crossing bell!!

Happy New Year Everyone!!

Robert

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from NY Times, Aug. 29

 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/movies/gene-wilder-dead.html?_r=0

Gene Wilder, who established himself as one of America’s foremost comic actors with his delightfully neurotic performances in three films directed by Mel Brooks, his eccentric star turn in the family classic “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory” and his winning chemistry with Richard Pryor in the box-office smash “Stir Crazy,” died on Sunday night in Connecticut. He was 83…

Gene Wilder was born Jerome Silberman in Milwaukee on June 11, 1933. His father, William, a manufacturer and salesman of novelty items, was an immigrant from Russia. His mother, the former Jeanne Baer, suffered from a rheumatic heart and a temperament that sometimes led her to punish him angrily and then smother him with regretful kisses.

Young Jerry spent one semester at the Black-Foxe Military Institute in Hollywood. His mother saw it as a great opportunity; in reality it was a catch-basin for boys from broken families, where he was regularly beaten up for being Jewish.

Safe back home after that misadventure, he played minor roles in community theater productions and then followed his older sister, Corinne, into the theater program at the University of Iowa. After Iowa he studied Shakespeare at the Bristol Old Vic Theater School in England, where he was the first freshman to win the school fencing championship.

He next enrolled part-time at the HB Studio in New York, while also serving a two-year Army hitch as an aide in the psychiatric unit of the Valley Forge Army Hospital in Pennsylvania — an assignment he requested because, he said, “I imagined the things I would see there might relate more to acting than any of the other choices.” He added, “I wasn’t wrong.”

After his discharge he won a coveted spot at the Actors Studio, and it was then that he adopted the name Gene Wilder: Gene for Eugene Gant, the protagonist of Thomas Wolfe’s “Look Homeward, Angel,” and Wilder for the playwright Thornton Wilder.

In his first major role on Broadway Mr. Wilder played the chaplain in a 1963 production of Bertolt Brecht’s “Mother Courage and Her Children.” The production ran for less than two months, and he came to believe he had been miscast. The good news was that he met the boyfriend of the star, Anne Bancroft: Mel Brooks, who wore a pea coat the night he met Mr. Wilder backstage and told him, “You know, they used to call these urine jackets, but they didn’t sell.”

So began the conversation that ultimately led to “The Producers.”

[BaltACD]

Gene Wilder an American Original!  RIP and catch up with Gilda and Richard!