Moving Between Loco's On The Move

[oubliette]

Hi,

Another question from the UK. Whilst watching a number of Rail DVD's I noticed on a couple of them train crew on the running boards of loco's whilst the loco's were moving at a fair speed. I also witnessed this in Field, BC whereby a member of the train crew was walking from one loco to the next whilst the train was climbing towards the Spiral Tunnels.

Is there a rule on this. I know there are handrails etc but is there a point where it becomes unsafe to walk outside a loco whilst on the move.

Just curious?

Cheers

Rory

[edblysard]

No rule against it in the GCOR, but then again, most of our locomotives have hand rails, walkways and drop down end platforms designed for just such a purpose.
Its sorta like walking on a moving ship in choppy seas, once you find the rythem, its easy, as long as you dont think about it to hard.
Ed

[Anonymous]

As Ed said there is no applicable rule in GCOR. I believe NORAC also lacks such a rule. The rule I am aware of is imposed upon employees through a special instruction in the ETT that prohibits being on the outside locomotive walkways at speeds exceeding 15 mph.

LC

[Anonymous]

Many years ago, we had a group of Alco S2's and S4's with MU that were used in transfer service. Most of these units had drop steps, but some didn't. Foot boards were still in use, and we would step between units using the footboards if no drop step was there at speeds up to about 25 mph. The safety gestapo would FREAK at that now! 8^@

[Train Guy 3]

I'd rather walk on the outside of a locomtive at full speed than walk between the cars on Amtrak at full speed.

[CShaveRR]

There was a time during the early 1970s that moving between locomotives was outlawed on CNW. They even went as far as to put solid handrails where the chains and drop platforms used to be. Fortunately, this was thought better of before the SD40-2s started to arrive.

[AntonioFP45]

I remember that during the 70s here in Florida you could see locomotive crew members walking from unit to unit while the train was at speed.

Today, I hope this isn't practiced often. Even though a good portion of CSX track here in Florida is authorized for 55m.p.h operation I see how locomotives seem to "bounce" on the tracks. Must be quite a ride for crews on some of the older locomotives still in service.

[jeaton]

I have done that at speeds up to maybe 25mph. First thing is to pay attention to what you're doing and what is going on around you. (I think they now call that situational awareness). Second thing is have a good grip on the handrail.

As always, don't try it at home.

Jay

[rvos1979]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

I have done that at speeds up to maybe 25mph. First thing is to pay attention to what you're doing and what is going on around you. (I think they now call that situational awareness). Second thing is have a good grip on the handrail.

As always, don't try it at home.

Jay

Not to be outdone, I have taken a walk back at 40MPH to reset and restart a locomotive, it's not fun, just make sure your hat is screwed down real tight!

A good grip? I think I had a death grip on the handrail going back!!

Randy

[zardoz]

Another fascinating sensory experience to walk inside a F7 or E8 while going 70mph while the main engine is running at full RPM.

[jimrice4449]

One of the many ways one could have fun and excitment on the Milwaukee was to go back to a trailing unit to check on whether or not it was loading or whatever. They didn't have drop steps (at least not on the SD-40s) and you had to climb over the end handrails and step across. I've wondered more than once if the couplings on the MU hoses were up to holding a person in the event of a mishap.

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimrice4449

One of the many ways one could have fun and excitment on the Milwaukee was to go back to a trailing unit to check on whether or not it was loading or whatever. They didn't have drop steps (at least not on the SD-40s) and you had to climb over the end handrails and step across. I've wondered more than once if the couplings on the MU hoses were up to holding a person in the event of a mishap.

NO !!!

[arbfbe]

Here is the story on the MILWAUKEE ROAD situation. When hearings were being heard about the need for firemen on locomotives the railroads stated there was no need for firemen on diesels due to all the automation on the locos for fans, shutters, low water shutdowns, crank case over pressure devices and such. The union rep asks if the firemen were not necessary then why were walkways for their transit between units provided. The next day the MILW started removing walkways and replacing the chains on the end rails with solid bars. An incredibly stupid and shortsighted policy to make a point.. I worked on the MILW for a few years and can tell you we still crossed between moving units when needed. Only at slow speeds, NEVER using the mu hoses as a platform. When I worked for the BN the restriction to be on the platforms and walkways on moving units was only at speeds below 35 mph. It can be done at higher speeds, it all depends upon your comfort level, after all, they walk on the wings of ariplanes, don't they?

[chad thomas]

What about the old days when brakemen would walk the top of cars on the running boards. They had to do it at speed and in all kinds of trecherous weather conditions. My uncle was a career SP man and has told me of the many horrors involved in his early days. But that's how they did it. Compare that to walking between locomotives.

[tree68]

Brakeman was not a wise career choice if you planned on enjoying the benefits of your retirement plan... (Back in the day, of course.)

Walking inside a moving railroad car can be a challenge.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

What about the old days when brakemen would walk the top of cars on the running boards. They had to do it at speed and in all kinds of trecherous weather conditions. My uncle was a career SP man and has told me of the many horrors involved in his early days. But that's how they did it. Compare that to walking between locomotives.

And lets not forget that in the old days a brakies experienced was judged by the number of fingers he was missing...

LC

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

Another fascinating sensory experience to walk inside a F7 or E8 while going 70mph while the main engine is running at full RPM.

I had my MAC card demagnetized when walking past the main generator inside an F7 under full load.

[fievel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

What about the old days when brakemen would walk the top of cars on the running boards. They had to do it at speed and in all kinds of trecherous weather conditions. My uncle was a career SP man and has told me of the many horrors involved in his early days. But that's how they did it. Compare that to walking between locomotives.

And lets not forget that in the old days a brakies experienced was judged by the number of fingers he was missing...

LC

That was an abuse of people. Until Westinghouse invented the airbrake, they had to
do it that way. But it still stinks that they had to take such grave risks in order to make
a "living".[V] Nowawdays, an exhausted crew member has the golden opportunity
to fall asleep in a "safety cab" , or possibly make a fatal mistake due to overwork.
I would certainly hope the rules allow to slow the locos to a more manageable
speed if the crew needs to jump to a trailing unit. Especially in wet or snowy
weather.

[arbfbe]

.
"I would certainly hope the rules allow to slow the locos to a more manageable
speed if the crew needs to jump to a trailing unit. Especially in wet or snowy
weather."

There is nothing in the rules to preclude the crew from stopping the train to walk to a trailing unit. In fact that would be necessary if both crew members were needed back there..
Yes, thanks to George Westinghouse, patron saint of longer, heavier, faster and especially safer trains in the world.

[oltmannd]

When I was just a pup, I had to go back along the walkway of some GP40-2s doing 50 mph or so on the Mohawk Div to check a test device (a Barco Locomotive Performance Verifier) that mechanically recorded the fuel rack setting. That was hairy enough, but after I opened the engine compartment door, I knelt down to look as something - I don't remember what. The wind caught the door an bonked me on my hard hat, knocking me over, and almost off, the locomotive.

My life, all the way through the 8th grade, passed before my eyes!

That was one of two "near death" experiences that taught me a lesson!

(the other was almost falling in a drop table pit)

[Rodney Beck]

Hi group I am a engineer with the BNSF. The last time I walked from unit to unit while moving was a few days ago. I had a heavy train we had 3 units and the middle unit shut itself down due to low governor oil while I was going up a good hill the train was doing 18mph when the shutdown occured. I had the conductor take over while I went back and got the unit restarted by the time I got the unit started the train was down to 7mph I am glad the I had a conductor with 20 years of serivce. It is not big deal to walk from unit to unit while moving as long as you keep your whits.

Rodney
Engineer BNSF

[Anonymous]

Now that you mention it I sure do miss those Santa Fe F& FP-45's!

[Gavin Sowry]

This modern age of political correctness and safety awareness has surely taken the FUN out of railroading. Remember riding on the pilot, hanging on with one hand, trying to signal the engineer when he's just opened the cylinder cocks and steam cleaned your overalls, again, and remembering when to jump off to throw the switch...?

[Az trainmaster]

I know what Zardoz means. I walked inside 2 FP7's at only 15MPH. I sure hoped those huge pistons stayed in their cylinders.

[Anonymous]

Just had to do this last night on a loaded coal train, but we were only travelling 10mph. Generally not too big a deal at low speed, but most low speed main track is poorly maintained and you never know when there is going to be an unexpected bump, dip, or soft spot. Walking is less of a problem because there are handrails, but if you are resetting governor buttons or restarting a dead unit the handholds aren't in the most convenient locations. It is something that I keep in mind every time I have to step outside the cab. A fall at low speed can still be extremely dangerous.

As for rules about doing this: there aren't until you get hurt-then there are many rules that may have been broken, ie failure to maintain proper handholds, etc. so it is something to keep in mind.

[Anonymous]

On an earlier posting on this trace, someone mentioned walking the tops of the boxcars. Way back when (late 40's) my dad was a brakeman on the WCF&N in Iowa. This was an electric railroad. He said the worst part of the job was walking the cars. In the summer the wire hung down dangerously low and in the winter the tops wer icey.

I used to walk along a Illinois Central siding and let the air out of all the cars 40 or 50 at times. It took them forever to pump them up

[Anonymous]

It's really not hard at all walking on the walkways of a locomotive while it is in motion. Some crew members also take a **** from the walkway when in rural areas and at night.

[Anonymous]

Try going from a Geep into the nose door of an F-unit (we called them covered wagons). I did this on the NYC in the 60's on dark rainy nights more times than I want to remember.

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

Another fascinating sensory experience to walk inside a F7 or E8 while going 70mph while the main engine is running at full RPM.

Exactly how loud is that?
Trainboy

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainboyH16-44

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

Another fascinating sensory experience to walk inside a F7 or E8 while going 70mph while the main engine is running at full RPM.

Exactly how loud is that?
Trainboy

So loud that if you shout at the top of your lungs, you can't hear it, but not painful. (Definitely bad for your hearing!)