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Poughkeepsie Bridge

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Poughkeepsie Bridge
Posted by BNSFwatcher on Friday, December 11, 2009 2:39 PM

Does anyone know of a definitive history of the Poughkeepsie Bridge, between Highland and Poughkeepsie, NY?  Thanks to Peter E. Lynch's New Haven Railroad, I know that it was built in 1888 by the Central New England & Western, which was taken over by the Philadelphia, Reading & New England, then re-organized as the Central New England, before being taken over by the New York, New Haven & Hartford.  Originally built with two main tracks, it was gauntleted in 1927, and, I think, single-tracked at a later date before it (partially) burned.  Any references appreciated.  TNX.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, December 11, 2009 2:58 PM

 Hays:  Did it ever get rebuilt or was it torn down finally?

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, December 11, 2009 3:24 PM

Thr Poughkeepsie Bridge is now a hiking trail.  They even put in an elevator at one end to make it handicapped-accessible.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Friday, December 11, 2009 9:22 PM

A fair amount of the history and several references to booklets and articles are on the ''walkway.org''s website 'History' page, at: http://www.walkway.org/dynamic.php?id=history 

Also, the oral histories on YouTube at: http://www.walkway.org/dynamic.php?id=oralhistory 

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM

Thanks for the info, Paul.  Interesting, and quick!  I can't remember who owned the bridge when it "burned".  Was it Penn Central or Conrail?  There, apparently, was no structural damage, just enough to get it embargoed.  I can't remember if anyone was charged with arson, but doubt it.  Now that it is a "Yuppie" walkway, the chances of having rail traffic over it again are slight.  They could single-track it and run trains at night, but there would be public outcry!  Wow!  A couple of trains, per night, would pay for painting it and some upkeep.  My suggestion would be "Fire Engine Red"!  That would be fitting, and "hot"!  I'll see if I can find the book mentioned in the www.walkway.org site.  There are discrepancies, as to when it opened and the clearance above MHW.  Nit picking?  Yar!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:43 AM

Re-opening the Poughkeepsie Bridge to rail service would be a waste of money as the connections at Maybrook don't really exist anymore.  Traffic had been re-routed through Albany during the Penn Central era (PC was not going to shorthaul itself by routing through Maybrook) so the line's reason for existence had vanished.

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:58 AM

The bridge burned under Penn Central's watch and therein lies controversey.  With the burning, PC could close the bridge, the line, and the interchange with EL, L&HR, CNJ-RDG-B&O, and LV and keep all New England traffic to themselves via Selkirk by then the only rail crossing of the Hudson River except for passenger only PC,nee PRR, Penn Station main.  The ICC forced PC to run a train from Utica to Binghamton over the EL to effect the Maybrook interchange (PC units and train, EL crew).  Eventually, as PC somehow kept rerouting away from Maybrook, the train was dropped. That plus the end of PC and the beginning of Conrail which included all the interchanging rairoads.

However, I take exception to the concept that a P'kpsee Bridge route would be a waste today.  The former Erie/EL line, the Southern Tier Line of NS (on lease to MNRR [NJT] Suffern to Sparrowbush and Central New York RR [NYSW} Sparrowbush to Bingahmton) is intact if not in top shape.  Using Maybrook as a marshalling yard for intermodal and truck trailers from New England and the Port of New York, could be a way out of the expected crush of traffic expected over the next 20 to 50 years.  Even with CSX's single track Boston and Albany route and the improvements Patriot Rail expects to put in place on the former B&M line, the fact is that those two lines are way north of a lot of New England and away from the New York Metropolitan area.  Therefore being able to come up out of the City on the east side of the Hudson, or from Boston, Providence, New Haven and other CT points, the P'kpsee Bridge route to Maybrook could be very viable.  Oh, yeah, I'm not a professional railroader or marketer, but I would think that those in charge will look closely at this idea within the next few years because traffic, environment, and economics will force them to.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 12, 2009 9:51 AM

henry6
Oh, yeah, I'm not a professional railroader or marketer, but I would think that those in charge will look closely at this idea within the next few years because traffic, environment, and economics will force them to.

 

"Can't see the forest for the trees"

Good points, Henry.  Just because the route was closed by PC/Conrail, doesn't mean it has no value today, or more importantly, 10-30 years in the future.  One difficulty in businesses, for many good reasons,  is planning for the long term.

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, December 12, 2009 3:15 PM

In many urban areas when they decided they needed light rail or other than highway public transportation to alleviate traffic congestion and air pollution they drew lines representing where they had to build.  Often those lines were over abandoned rail or transit rights of way.  I feel that the same thing is going to happen when it comes to needing freight routes out of urban areas and through rural areas: lines drawn will be along abandoned rights of way.  And in many cases these lines will be over rail trails which will lead to great struggles, maybe impossible struggles, to reuse them for alleviating road congestion and pollution.  There were some "rail banks" at one time, but as time has moved away from the 1970's, all is forgotten.  There are few around today who understand that we don't have to reinvent the wheel as much as we must reapply its science and art.  Unfortunately there are too many others who have grown comfortable in the complacency of having gotten rid of those rail lines for personal use.

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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:52 PM

henry6
The bridge burned under Penn Central's watch and therein lies controversey. 

Admittedly a long way from my normal area of interest, but wasn't there another bridge in or near New York City that burned on PC's watch under peculiar circumstances. I recall reading something about this and I thought at the time it is something I would like to know more about.

Bruce

 

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:34 AM

No, this and Castleton near Selkirk, are the only two rail bridges across the Hudson south of Albany.  This is the bridge that burned, some say under suspecious circumstances, that PC used as an excuse to close Maybrook at a New England gateway for EL, LV, and the B&O-RDG-CNJ group via LHR.  PC refusal to repair the bridge stirred the controversey which became moot when they all became Conrail.

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Posted by carnej1 on Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:19 PM

henry6

The bridge burned under Penn Central's watch and therein lies controversey.  With the burning, PC could close the bridge, the line, and the interchange with EL, L&HR, CNJ-RDG-B&O, and LV and keep all New England traffic to themselves via Selkirk by then the only rail crossing of the Hudson River except for passenger only PC,nee PRR, Penn Station main.  The ICC forced PC to run a train from Utica to Binghamton over the EL to effect the Maybrook interchange (PC units and train, EL crew).  Eventually, as PC somehow kept rerouting away from Maybrook, the train was dropped. That plus the end of PC and the beginning of Conrail which included all the interchanging rairoads.

However, I take exception to the concept that a P'kpsee Bridge route would be a waste today.  The former Erie/EL line, the Southern Tier Line of NS (on lease to MNRR [NJT] Suffern to Sparrowbush and Central New York RR [NYSW} Sparrowbush to Bingahmton) is intact if not in top shape.  Using Maybrook as a marshalling yard for intermodal and truck trailers from New England and the Port of New York, could be a way out of the expected crush of traffic expected over the next 20 to 50 years.  Even with CSX's single track Boston and Albany route and the improvements Patriot Rail expects to put in place on the former B&M line, the fact is that those two lines are way north of a lot of New England and away from the New York Metropolitan area.  Therefore being able to come up out of the City on the east side of the Hudson, or from Boston, Providence, New Haven and other CT points, the P'kpsee Bridge route to Maybrook could be very viable.  Oh, yeah, I'm not a professional railroader or marketer, but I would think that those in charge will look closely at this idea within the next few years because traffic, environment, and economics will force them to.

 While there certainly is still some freight service on the former New Haven Shoreline section of the Northeast Corridor, to reintroduce significant through freight operations would most likely require an Act of Congress....Amtrak would never willingly allow lots of freight on the highspeed sections, even if you build additional freight only tracks (as has been done in RI) there would still be significant bottlenecks esp. many of the bridges...

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:51 PM
Basically what it comes down to is..PC wanted to close Maybrook once and for all, and as has been said route all traffic through Selkirk.  The fire, which started after an EL powered train went across the bridge, didn't do enough damage to close it but enough to give PC the excuse it needed to close it.  This left no route for trains out of Maybrook, though there were few left, and some railroads such as the Lehigh and Hudson River with no connection since their traffic was based on being a bridge line with the connection at Maybrook.  With Conrail coming inot existence a few years down the road none of it would matter anyway.
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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, December 13, 2009 3:17 PM

An EL powered train on the bridge!?  Doubtful...that was all PC/NH territory miles from the EL and Maybrook.  It could have been an EL train, however, a connection to or from the EL like NE 99 or 100 or something like that.

And remember the future is not here yet. Yes Amtrak controls the Shore Line but there are other factors in New England that could come into play through Danbury.  And coming up from the Big Apple to Brewster could come into play.  What was, was; what is, is; what will be is speculation, yes, but if anything needs be done, there will be a way to get it done.  West out of NY Metropolitan area is getting full over what it's got...so the Southern Tier Line looms big for future use by somebody, NS is in control there now.  So many things can happen; I just wish will live long enough to see it happen.

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Posted by AgentKid on Monday, December 14, 2009 10:15 AM

Wanswheel, I was pleased to see once again that you were up to you usual high standard's of photo posting. Thank you very much.

Bruce


So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, December 14, 2009 10:32 AM

I can't wait till spring when we are going out on a walk over the river.  I am working on a schedule for my Ridewithmehenry trip groups which will probably include NJT/MNRR-Amtrak-bridge walk-MNRR-MTA-NJT/MNRR, probably a weekday, too, but could be a Saturday jaunt. 've seen the bridge many times from water level, and have been fascinated by the history and the stories. 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, December 14, 2009 2:31 PM

henry6:   I looked at the great pics Wanswheel posted.  So are you and your group going to hike across on the path?  Looks rather frightening.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, December 14, 2009 3:39 PM

It is now a Rail Trail, just opened in October as such...concrete deck, high railings, etc.  I'm told there's even an elevator at one of the ends.  Google, Bing, or Ask for pictures and details.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, December 14, 2009 6:20 PM
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Posted by schlimm on Monday, December 14, 2009 6:30 PM

wanswheel

Looking south from Highland side of "Walkway Over the Hudson"

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/2/3/3223.1255545544.jpg

Looking south from Poughkeepsie side

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/4/4/5944.1255951933.jpg

 

Interesting pics.  The Highland pic could give someone acrophobia.  The  Poughkeepsie pic looks like a European model railroad.  Thanks!!

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, December 14, 2009 7:17 PM

Thanks again MIke.  That last shot of spectataors on the car for the races was also a thing the LV did for the Cornell races on Cayuga Lake in Ithaca...local PBS station had movies of the train following the rowing competiton down the lake...

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Friday, December 18, 2009 7:51 PM
henry6

An EL powered train on the bridge!?  Doubtful...that was all PC/NH territory miles from the EL and Maybrook.  It could have been an EL train, however, a connection to or from the EL like NE 99 or 100 or something like that.

And remember the future is not here yet. Yes Amtrak controls the Shore Line but there are other factors in New England that could come into play through Danbury.  And coming up from the Big Apple to Brewster could come into play.  What was, was; what is, is; what will be is speculation, yes, but if anything needs be done, there will be a way to get it done.  West out of NY Metropolitan area is getting full over what it's got...so the Southern Tier Line looms big for future use by somebody, NS is in control there now.  So many things can happen; I just wish will live long enough to see it happen.

I have a booklet that shows the last train on the bridge, it was an EL run through with EL power. There was only one or two regular trains by that time from what I've read so they probably sent it through with whatever power it had. If anybody is in that area, there is a nice little museum in Maybrook that shows the whole history. I am glad it is reopened..Can't wait to see the view.
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Posted by henry6 on Friday, December 18, 2009 8:05 PM

I must look for the book as I would love to see the EL units on the bridge...not doubting you, just love the bridge and the EL so much that I think that will be a delightful photo!  And will stop by the museum when I get down that way next spring.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Saturday, December 19, 2009 9:30 PM

I think you'll enjoy it!  Just try to find out the hours first..wouldn't want you to go there and have it not open.  If I can find out myself I'll try to post them for you.

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Posted by Awesome! on Monday, December 21, 2009 5:53 PM

I used to live in Hyde Park, NY in the 90's They were thinking of opening back to the R.R. or make it a walkway. I am glad it finally open the doors to the public. Does anyone posted any actual pictures of the board walk?

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, December 21, 2009 7:20 PM

Kaatskil Life magazine Winter 2009-2010 Edition just did a several page spread on the Rail Trail Bridge.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, December 21, 2009 9:16 PM

- Nice mood shot;

- Yet another vintage vehicle - don't know that I'd care to do that up there, though;

- Oh, come on !  Laugh  Let's see the neighbor top that one !

Thanks for finding and sharing.  Somewhere on Picasa I have a few of mine from there back in early November - I'll find the link again and post it here.

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 1:23 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
  Thanks for finding and sharing.  Somewhere on Picasa I have a few of mine from there back in early November - I'll find the link again and post it here.

- Paul North.

http://picasaweb.google.com/PaulDNorthJr/PoughkeepsieBridgeWalkwayTrail#

8088, 8089, and 8091 are the most illustrative of the walkway itself.  It really is quite substantial - there's no sense of the height unless you look over the railing.  Compare 8091 with 8077.

- Paul North.

 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)

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