I was reading the post and in reading it i saw where some of the old head railroaders on here was sticking up for the brothers and sisters on the CN up in canada, But then a few forum members Started saying things that would be against the good of the railroaders such as hiring scabs and why did the CN cave in. Now I know why it was locked and I dont know if Crandell jumped the gun or headed a problem off at the pass. Anyways you look at it he made a tough decission. And i wasnt even in that fight. But this is not a post on dragging up who right or wrong. What i want to know is why the members of this forum who ask railroaders question on your hobby why are you BITTING THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU?
Crandell I know this might get heated also and there is enough tension here so if it looks like a free for all starts again just lock it down and i wont ask anything about it again
There are two sides to the conflict. It is not surprising that every forum member is not on the same side. As far as locking threads goes, I don’t see why a debate about labor versus management should be off limits as long as nobody gets personally insulted or flamed.
I thought it was going on pretty nicely until somebody took a hardline approach to the thing. Then I saw invectives---in a way I was not surprised about the locking up. BTW there was another CN thing about TCRC and it got shut down--apparently for the same reason---
Reasoned debate ---yes
Hoohaw---uh uh
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I am very aware of the fact that not everyone will agree and is why I ask for a reasonable discussion, I am also aware that a few opinions will rub some very wrong. but i ask no name calling and just the facts. I will be the first to say i didnt read all of what the union wanted or what the carrier countered with. But if it got them back at the table then great things have a ways of working out. But remeber that its only a offer and until its voted on its only words on paper.
I know that here in the US hiring replacements ( scabs ) would not work and is really a scare tactic. and the prez can issue a back to work order, ( not sure if that can happen in canada) but what good would it do. it is flue season and most would call in sick anyways just to help continue the strike. So the best thing to do is sit down and talk,
And Im still wondering why the foamers hate the fact that the union men and women are fighting for something to help the way of life we live? I see more of the desk clerk at the motel and my conductor than i see my wife and kids.
I think the truth is that many railfans couldn't care less about the human side of railroading. They only care about the locmotives, paint schemes, and bragging rights of getting photos accepted at railpictures.net.
Why? I don't know. I think it is the whole anti-labor thing we have going on in this country. Office workers deserve $50K a year to watch youtube and sit in an air conditioned/heated office, but heaven forbid someone that spends 30+ years in the elements at all times of day and night be able to support a family....
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Ok now I have went back and read all the posted stuff on the strike and it is as i exspected. The issue dont seam to be Money but more on the quality of life or lack of it., and it seems that its goiing to be the union and its poitical board against the company and every bleeding heart they can find to support them and feel sorry for them, including the public, and dont forget this is the same people you feel sorry for when someone runs a crossing and they hit them and live with the scares of the deaths for life and the same carrier who get sued for millions from some executor of the will.
I Now want to ask the question alittle differant so there is a dirrection to go instead of a free for all.
1) Why is it so hard for the members who didnt like the strike to accept the fact that the union members want a better quality of life. now remeber this has been being talked over for 14 months it just didnt get brought up last week. and could it be that we stand united to ask for this and not get bullied.
2) I use to hate unions also but ive been a memebr of the blet for years and has been the best union ive been in so far. and we do get things accomplished but we also pay for it. is it the fact that we pay to get these things done is it that we make good money because of the unions?
3) the carrier would love for us to be out there 24/7 365 at 7.50 per hour. we have a much hire rate of pay and only slightly less hours, if we fight for better hours this wont take away from your train watching so why is this a problem for the non-union guys to accept.
I think if we approach this in a question type like this we can fit the labor and feeling with a touch of the politics that will rise in a very fair disscusion and I Swear... not to fight or offend anyone as its your opinion i do seek. so i cant get mad if you cut me down. and please keep it cival. ( that from me????) yes even i have my days. And yes propoganda can be introduced from both sides,
No it was not a good call. While at the end the thread was starting to go down the wrong path, I think a shot across the bow 1st would have been better than locking the thread. If the thread had stayed going down the wrong path, then get the padlock out. This forum has gotten almost as bad as railroad.net in the quick locking of threads.
An "expensive model collector"
Oh well---I seen threads completely disappear on the MR forum---or posts getting edited of content--
Must be one of those weeks for general crabbiness--
zugmann I think the truth is that many railfans couldn't care less about the human side of railroading. They only care about the locmotives, paint schemes, and bragging rights of getting photos accepted at railpictures.net. Why? I don't know. I think it is the whole anti-labor thing we have going on in this country. Office workers deserve $50K a year to watch youtube and sit in an air conditioned/heated office, but heaven forbid someone that spends 30+ years in the elements at all times of day and night be able to support a family....
Zugmann,
In general, I don’t think railfans are uncaring about railroaders. In fact, I think it is pretty much just the opposite, but it’s just that they see no distinction between labor and management. Both are part of the organization that railfans admire, so it may be hard to rally them onto your side in your disagreement with management, should one occur.
Also, I don’t sense the anti-labor thing that you mention is going on in our country. I sense a major anti-business thing though.
Bucyrus Also, I don’t sense the anti-labor thing that you mention is going on in our country. I sense a major anti-business thing though.
That could be just as anti-labour as anything I'd suspect. The thing about the anti-business issue is that there have been incidents that reinforce a negative approach to the problem. Zugman's point about there being a perception with railfans--I'd say a lot more than just them though-- of no difference between labour and management seems to ring more in terms of what happens when talks between the two sides break down and devolve to finger pointing and all that dysfunctional thinking. Then you get the thing of "a pox on both their houses!"---
I think some of the anti-labor feelings come about from people who have seen their wages and benefits eroded over time. They see a strike against a company by employees who they perceive to have it made, good wages and benefits. They don't realize what the job entails. What it takes to make those good wages and benefits. Nor do they realize that concessions have also been made before by those striking workers.
What really gets me is that some of these people have no sympathy for a striking blue collar worker, but support a strike by sports/entertainment people.
Jeff
I'll opine that it's not a matter of not understanding how railroads work, it's a matter of not understanding how the whole labor/management dichotomy works. In the mid-1940's, fully a third of US workers were union members. It's now down to around 1 in 8.
There was a time that most people could count several union members in their circle of friends. They understood the usually uneasy peace between the two sides (and perhaps the pitched battles, too).
Today it's as likely as not that a person doesn't know anyone in a union, or at very least not one of the more militant unions (as opposed to those whose chief function seems to be to collect your dues). As such a term like "scab" doesn't carry the emotional power that it does for a union member. Crossing a picket line is like crossing the street, not a grave violation of principle.
Suggesting that management hire replacement workers reflects that naivete', unless someone is being trollish.
So, while some have their dander up about the thread being locked, I'd suggest it's better than getting one's dander up because someone is baiting you. And we all know how that works here on the forum...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wabash:You are certainly going beyond the call of duty in order to keep this civil Thanks. I have always appreciated your view of the industry and your ability to answer questions we ask.
I have never quite understood the radicals that push the anti labor or the anti business movements. There is a tendancy those movements swing a bit too far (each direction). Years ago I was not attacked, but it came very close to it by Teamsters strikers. It didnt sit too well with me. Today, I would simply avoid any confrontation. It is not worth the risk at this point in my life.
Quality of life for railroaders is a HUGE issue and should be addressed. Railroaders who have discussed this have opened my eyes. Tonight I am feeling really lousy from four days of waking up at 430am....I cannot image what it would be like bouncing around on a railroaders schedule.
I am not going to fan any flames here and hope this does keep civil. The main point for anyone's employment is to receive fair compensation, hopefully for a job you enjoy and find fulfilling while remaining safe.
To all you railroaders out there, thanks for all the time you have spent answer my unending questions.
Ed
wabash1 I was reading the post and in reading it i saw where some of the old head railroaders on here was sticking up for the brothers and sisters on the CN up in canada, But then a few forum members Started saying things that would be against the good of the railroaders such as hiring scabs and why did the CN cave in. Now I know why it was locked and I dont know if Crandell jumped the gun or headed a problem off at the pass. Anyways you look at it he made a tough decission. And i wasnt even in that fight. But this is not a post on dragging up who right or wrong. What i want to know is why the members of this forum who ask railroaders question on your hobby why are you BITTING THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU? Crandell I know this might get heated also and there is enough tension here so if it looks like a free for all starts again just lock it down and i wont ask anything about it again
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Norris It was not intended to lump everyone into one category, and im sorry if that is how it looked. And for those who dont know Crandell and Myself dont see eye to eye and infact have been PM messaging ( ok fighting) for sometime. I haft to hand it to him as it was a tough call I am confident that he would like to see some threads go on but as Norris said i think that one was going down hill fast and nobody even grab the air or apply dynamic brakes.
Something that came to mind was many years ago as a young hot headed kid i defyed authority figure and a union telling me what to do didnt set right with me. I came from a union family and for some reason i couldnt pay dues and be happy, also that is why i became a owner operator years ago. and did well but decided to settle down and whe i did become a railroader i also became a member of the BLE then later becoming BLET a teamster before that . so i been on both sides.
we have a good thing going here guys please keep it simple and no name calling . thanks
I became aggravated when I read statements that implied something negative. While everyone is due their own opinion, spouting off something in which they had no idea about angers me.
We live in a day and age where it is no longer hard to research what ever subject you care to, and educate yourself. So in my eyes, there is no reason to make such inflammatory statements.
And understand, there are both fans, and rails who comment here. I am a local Secretary/Treasurer, and support my fellow employees, of any union, not just the one I serve.
The comments made in the previous thread by a poster who desired that CN "break the union" were not at all helpful, and were in my humble opinion purposefully inflamatory.
Murray The comments made in the previous thread by a poster who desired that CN "break the union" were not at all helpful, and were in my humble opinion purposefully inflamatory.
I kinda wondered about that because it seemed almost like a carry over from an earlier(?) thread about the CN thing----
I do agree with RRKen on that one--I also support the unions here as well----I'm not involved in RR but I've been involved in enough side stuff---dealing with injured people from accidents etc --- that I appreciate what these guys go through--
I was an engineer for 20 years. I left the railroad in 1993 because of the lousy working conditions (hours, not environment). The jobs I've had since then have been in various lower levels of management.
I mention the above to illustrate that I feel I can fairly well see both sides of the controversy. Believe me when I say that I fully appreciate the railroader's side of the situation, and understand the management side as well.
However, the reality of today's situation is such that with 10%+ unemployment there are thousands of people willing to take on those working conditions to keep their family fed and housed. Many, if not most, of those 10% would be willing to give up holidays at home for the $50K+ yearly wages.
And so, considering the plight of so many unemployed, it is difficult to generate much sympathy for today's railroader. In many ways they ought to be thankful that they have any job. not to mention such a good paying job.
Of course on the flip side, management should, if just from the humanist perspective, make more of an effort to keep their current employees healthy and happy. It is well researched that good rest is essential for a properly functioning mind and body, and that a rested employee is a much safer employee. Few people are born good railroaders, most have to be extensively trained; from that perspective alone it is in the railroads best interest to try to keep their employees content.
All railroaders must have the willingness and ability to put up with sometimes terrible working conditions (ever try to read a switch list or hang on to a grab-iron in a driving rain when the temperature is 35F degrees and the wind is 40mph? Or try to walk the ballast in 3' of snow carrying a wrench, air hose, and/or knuckle? Or weld a switch frog in -40 degree wind chill? Or try to find a broken bond wire in 1 mile of track covered with 2' of snow?). Management would do well to realize the excellent assets they have in their dedicated employees.
One point we make at our company is that there are certain issues around safety----and our clients health--not to put ourselves and/or others in harms way. If you are sick --stay home is one---many of our clients have compromised immune systems--no sense in gong to work if you have a flu---they'll get worse and then what? Sick days are such that they're covered---that kind of thing-
zardozAll railroaders must have the willingness and ability to put up with sometimes terrible working conditions (ever try to read a switch list or hang on to a grab-iron in a driving rain when the temperature is 35F degrees and the wind is 40mph? Or try to walk the ballast in 3' of snow carrying a wrench, air hose, and/or knuckle? Or weld a switch frog in -40 degree wind chill? Or try to find a broken bond wire in 1 mile of track covered with 2' of snow?). Management would do well to realize the excellent assets they have in their dedicated employees
I've done construction jobs in weather somewhat similar to this---don't think that I'd want to do that in my general condition now!! That is what these guys go through a lot---up here--
I agree. Perhaps there was another or 'hidden' agenda there.
What would have been more useful is to ask simply ''Why ?'' he felt that way, or better yet, ''What of the union's bargaining demands in the current dispute led or justified him in feeling that way ?''. Perhaps then we could have moved beyond that rhetoric or anti-union bias into the merits of each side's positions in this dispute, etc. - or not, if that's all he wanted to say about it. But at least then we would have known that.
This so far appears to be a much more civilized discussion* of the dispute. For myself, 'I don't have a dog in this fight', and am willing to listen to/ read the viewpoints of both sides. Actually, I thought that the reported bargaining positions and tactics of both the union and CN seemed reasonable, and not all that far apart. I would welcome a discussion of the pros and cons of each, and what the approaches that were advanced to resolve it. For example - would the current Canadian government likely favor one side or the other if it had to legislate a solution ?
- Paul North.
*Though I have difficulty believing that wabash1 really started this thread - what, were you kidnapped by aliens, man ? Nahh - I've always thought you have a wise aspect to your character.
Paul_D_North_JrThough I have difficulty believing that wabash1 really started this thread - what, were you kidnapped by aliens, man ?
Uh-oh, I think I got a problem here. I couldn't tell you which paint scheme is called what on any of the majors [except for CP's 'beaver' emblem and CN's 'NA' version - what the heck is a CSX 'Bright Future' anyway ?], it's a darn good thing for me that NS paints the loco model designations on the sides of the cabs, and RP.net won't accept my photos - so I might not be a railfan after all ???
wabash1 said - "3) the carrier would love for us to be out there 24/7 365 at 7.50 per hour. we have a much hire rate of pay and only slightly less hours, . . ."
I happen to think that's the biggest personnel problem facing the industry, and that it can be addressed a lot better than it is, such as with CN's 'scheduled railroad' approach, or certain call 'windows' each day to keep the circadian rhythyms more or less in sync, etc. But I'm not on the inside enough to have enough facts and knowledge to make that case, and there are too many here who seem claim that it'll never work because of random factors such as weather, grade crossing accidents, derailments, delays of inbound trains and connections, trackwork, etc., etc., as if 1 exception would wreck the entire system, so I haven't yet been terribly vocal about it. But I do concur with MP173/ ed on my respect for those who have to do it - and I think that all management should have to do it for 2 weeks or a month each year, just like annual training in the military reserves - then we'll see how fast and how much it can get changed !
The $7.50 per hour thing - that would last only a couple months, I believe. Then the unreliability and lack of capability of most of the people who are willing to work for that would come to the surface, operations would fall apart in may ways, and then the management would start looking for an 'out' or to put the previous set-up back in place. Even the anti-labor Trains columnist from the 1960's and 1980's John G. Kneiling felt that the 'train drivers' should be earning in the $25 per hour range then - which would be $75 to $100 an hour today. I've personally seen that happen when a non-union low-wage operation replaced a union-scale crew. The actual labor dollars to complete the projects to the same level of quality was about the same - it just took about twice as many man-hours, and hence twice as long overall, with the less capable and less motivated low-wage crew. But as a result, their equipment charges were almost twice as high, so net, it was more expensive. Sometimes 'you do get what you pay for' - or not. This is not to say that all unions and union shops are 'nirvana' and models of productivity - there needs to be some connection to the real world and competitiveness. For commodity labor in bulk, where lots of supervision and tech support can be there with the workforce all the time such as on a factory floor, maybe that low-wage 'business model' works. But for the 'on-call' 24 x 360 or so, independently operating without immediate local supervision, resourceful and creative people needed for the best productivity in the high-tech and complex world of today's mainline operations, it seems to me that the carriers would be better off with more highly qualified and motivated people who have the ability to take the initiative and action, rather than waiting to be told by some manager exactly what to do. It would be an interesting actual experiment to run in the real world, that's for sure . . .
The hurtful thing about management/labor issues and strikes, "replacement" workers, etc. is that so many manufacturing and service jobs have been "outsourced" to India, China, Viet Nam... Perhaps the climate isn't anti-business or anti-labor so much as it's "anti-people."
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Going to jump in here for just a bit, we have had a similar discussion before.
Both unions and management need the antagonistic attitude of the other to justify their respective positions.
Middle management wants it, because it allows them to treat the union guys as something akin to a third column, sorta.
And it allows the union guys to treat everything management wants or expects with suspicion and distrust.
Both sides feed their fears and egos, and those of their peers, off the battle, both sides use this to justify their respective combative positions.
Think of trainmasters, roadmasters and such as NCOs, and Division Supers, VPs and such upward as commissioned officers.
As long as the non-coms get the work done under budget, the brass could really care less how it happens.
Upper management intentionally distances itself from all of this, in order to be able to claim they had no idea any abuses were happening.
This is especially true when the officers did not work their way up from the ranks, but were hired from outside the industry because they then tend to insulate themselves from the nuts bolts and grease of the job.
Think plausible deniability.
And there is always the claim, like the one already mentioned, that we,(T&E employees) are paid a great wage as compensation for the hardships.
Here are some things that might alter you perception of a fair wage system.
After taking into account inflation, our wages have increased about $3.00 an hour since 1985.
The national minimum wage has increased more in the same amount of time.
When I hired on, there was a tier system to pay…new hires worked at 75% pay for a 90 day probationary period(called a derail period, where they could be turned or fired for any reason professional or otherwise.
After the 90 days were up, we were paid 80% of full pay, after the first year, we go to 85%, and it increased by 5% yearly till you got to 100% full pay.
Know of any other major industry that treats employees like that?
You had to put in 5 years to get full pay.
The UTU fought this for years, and it was just recently that the national contract was modified to allow new hires to go to 100% full pay after the 90 probation.
No one hired after the 1985 contract are entitled to any of the perks or arbitraries everyone seems to think we get.
I love the 50k plus claims of pay..wish it was true, but the fact is unless you are an overtime hound or work a road job that hogs out every day, or you live on the extra board, 50k is a hard earned amount.
Most of us don’t get away from home terminal pay, air pay, short hand pay, unprotected man pay, none of the arbitraries the pre 85 guys get.
And keep in mind that all of the Class 1 roads each have 1000 plus guys off on furlough, which means that the guys that are still here have to pick up the slack and do the extra work those guys would have…and with the new safety rule on hours of service, most of us don’t hog out or earn the full 12 hours we are allowed, and trust me, even riding for 12 hours can be fatiguing.
If you want to see what our contract says, and what we really get paid for standing out in the crud, google the UTU national labor contract, or the BLET national contract, and simply read it/
23 17 46 11
Ed well said and if i can add to it, As stated for Ed to make big money he has to go on the road or make 12 hrs every night. Now I make 70k sometimes more but i have a trade off. I see more of my conductor and the motel clerk than i do my wife, Is the money worth the time away from home, not really but my bills at this time dictate what i work, Then you have trainmasters that want to fire you or write you up to justify thier jobs. How about the fact that i cant have a luch period on a thru frieght or a local. you are on duty 12 hrs and no lunch. things are getting better and we fight everyday to make things better that is why we pay the dues and if it wasnt for the men we elected to fight for us or jobs or job conditions would be worse
Ed - Not to be contrarian, but the method of pay you mention is very common.
The only difference is that most people hire on at some base pay level and then get raises.
For sake of argument, let's assume that your full pay is $10.
That means a new hire gets $7.50, with bumps as described.
The rest of us would get hired for our non-railroad job at $7.50.
After 90 days, a 6.67% raise takes us up to $8.00.
At the end of the first year we get a 6.25% raise - now we're up to $8.50.
Succeeding years we get raises at 5%, until we reach $10.00, after which we might get cost of living increases.
Nothing out of the ordinary there. That's essentially how I got paid in the military, and how I got paid as a government employee. In fact, that's how I got paid as a laborer at a large concession stand right after high school.
It all depends on how you approach it.
Yeah, but in the military, your housing and food is basicly covered, along with your medical.
And you were paid more as your rank and job responsibilities increased.
An in the real world, your pay increases as your job skill improves, and as your responsibilities increase and you move up the job ladder, holding ever increasing and more skill needed jobs.
But, what if after 90 days, you were expected to perform the exact same duties, and assume the exact same responisibilites as a 30 year vet?
Your a fireman, so what if, fresh out of rookie traing, you were expected to act as captain of your station, make all the decisions, and assume full responsibility for the rest of the crew and your equipment?
And here there are no refreshier courses, no job classes, no form of formal continuing job education.
I dont think a guy who is expected to perform the exact same job as I do, at the exact same level and under the exact same conditions should be paid one penny less than I am.
So, if there was a rank system in place, maybe things would be different, but after 90 days, that kid is doing the same job as I am, and for all intents and purposes holds the same "rank" as I a have, he pays the same amount in medical insurance, the same tier 1 and tier 2 taxes, the same union dues, carries the same job title and performs the same job as I do, so...
I understand where your coming from, Larry, but there is a difference inside the industry as opposed to the outside world.
We have 2 ranks as it were...conductor, or engineer, although some local contracts still allow for brakemen, and some Class 3 roads, such as mine, have formen and helper titles, but beyond that, we are all expected to do the exact same job under the same conditions.
My offical title is Switch Engine Foreman, we dont have the title of conductor here,but, because I may have to go to one of UPs yards to get a train, I have to be conversant and trained in UPs safety rules and regs, BNSFs also, so I have to know both of their rule books.
The kid fresh over his derail may get a yard to yard transfer run off the extra board...now he barely knows how to stay alive here on our property, and he is headed for UPs Englewood to yard and pull a transfer back...explain to me why he should not be paid the same as I am...
In the military, your job responsibilities are determined by the Uniform Code of Military Performance...the longer you are in, and the higher in rank you advance, the higher the pay grade.
In the real world, your hired as a rookie, given work that matches your skill level, and as you learn the business and apply yourself, you advance in job titles and responsibility, so your pay or wage increases.
You don't expect a new squid to have anywhere near the knowledge a CPO has, and you dont pay him the same because of that.
But out here, after 90 days, your handed a train sheet, pushed out the door, and the entire train is your responsibility, from the EOT to the locomotive handbrake, your the guy in charge.
Same goes for engineers...you pass your engineer certification, and on day one, you are expected to be able to safely handle and control a empty stack train or a loaded grain train, or a switch cut with zero air brakes.
There is no offical break in or learning curve beyond the inital training...once your marked up the whole thing your ball of wax, and you better get it right the first time or your fired...or some one gets hurt or killed.
(please excuse the spelling errors, my desktop fried it's power supply, and I am working off a netbook...tiny little keyboard and screen, old fat arthritic fingers and no near vision to speak of, plus I can't find spell check on this thing and no way am I asking my 16 year old daughter where its at or how to use it...she has laughted at me enough already)
I have a little more to add to this, but work calls, so I will be back later.
and yes, there is a pay scale difference between union shops, open shops, Class 3, 2 and 1 roads, but the job responsibilities on each are different.
The culture difference I understand. Thanks for the enlightenment. That's what's great about this forum - opportunities to learn.
edblysard [snip] (please excuse the spelling errors, my desktop fried it's power supply, and I am working off a netbook...tiny little keyboard and screen, old fat arthritic fingers and no near vision to speak of, plus I can't find spell check on this thing and no way am I asking my 16 year old daughter where its at or how to use it...she has laughted at me enough already) [snip]
Now there's an honest man ! I know exactly what you mean . . .
More seriously, ed, your points are well said and understood. Thank you. Mainly, once the new hire is past his(her) probationary period, he's got 100 % of a huge responsibility, but for only 75% of the pay - whereas for that same responsibility and with your years of experience, you're getting 100 % of the pay. I could see some justification for paying you more if your experience enables to you get the work done faster or better in some way - such as using some of the 'tricks of the trade' to sort out a yard faster - but I have the sense that a lot of the time constraints are beyond your control anyway.
And I suppose that these last couple days you've had 'solidarity in the snow' with your brothers up north ?
Speaking of which, at some point I'd like to see this thread get back to discussing the specifics of the CN - CTAC dispute, such as the pay raise vs. the monthly mileage cap increase, arbitrating the whole contract vs. just the pay increase component, etc. There were a couple of very involved and vocal members participating in the threads that were 'locked' - I wonder if they're willing to jump back in here with the other specifics and their view on them ?
Thanks again, ed.
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