Hi, I have some questions about rail operations in Vermont, specifically around White River Jct. I know that Vermont Railway and its various subsidiaries (C&P, Green Mtn, etc) operate the old Rutland RR. I know that New England Central operates the former Central Vermont trackage.
Who operates the old B&M trackage in the area? What is the approximate schedule of trains through WRJ? I know Amtak runs on the NECR up tp St. Albans and also on the Clarendon & Pittsford (Vermont Railway) from Whitehall, NY to Rutland VT. What are the end points of the former B&M trackage as they exist today? I have a 1971 B&M employee TT that shows all the lines during their ownership, but that is 38 years old now. Any assistance anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.
The Boston & Maine Northern Division (WRJ to Boston via Concord, Manchester, and Nashua) was abandoned in the mid 1980s, '85 if I recall correctly. The Claremont Concord Railroad runs out to Lebanon on the stub of the former tracks, then the Northern Rail Trail takes over until Concord, where New England Southern and Pan Am run. If you want more info or some photos of the rail trail, PM me - I researched the whole line and biked the Lebanon - Enfield stretch while researching for a model of the line.
WRJ is pretty quiet on the weekends - NECR's two road freights, 600 and 601, run sometime at night / late evening, but Amtrak's Southbound Vermonter and GMRC's White River Flyer both are in town at the same time, making sort of a hotspot of railroad action.
Weekdays are different. Claremont Concord runs three times a week over the Connecticut River with their beautiful green and yellow Alco S4 to the NECR yard to interchange cars. Pan Am, and the Vermont Railways family fit their trains in too.
I visited once on a weekend (here's a video) so I don't know much about weekday operations.
Here's a map of the area today.
TrainManTyWRJ is pretty quiet on the weekends - NECR's two road freights, 600 and 601, run sometime at night / late evening, but Amtrak's Southbound Vermonter and GMRC's White River Flyer both are in town at the same time, making sort of a hotspot of railroad action.Weekdays are different. Claremont Concord runs three times a week over the Connecticut River with their beautiful green and yellow Alco S4 to the NECR yard to interchange cars. Pan Am, and the Vermont Railways family fit their trains in too.
CCRR only runs into what is currently the "Washington County Rail Road" (WACR) yard at "Bank" in White River. They do not operate on any NECR trackage. CCRR also only operates "as needed" due to severe downturns in traffic.
NECR has four "official" trains that will operate in and out of WRJ. 324 hour of St Albans going to Brattleboro, 323 out of Brattleboro to St Albans, 600 which is the "day" switcher in WRJ, and 601 which is the "night" switcher in WRJ.
323 and 324 are staffed out of St Albans, with St Albans crews. 600 and 601 are staffed out of WRJ, but due to layoffs and the jobs actually having scheduled days off, the senior guys (Basically: St Albans crews) have displaced the lesser seniority people in and at WRJ.600 ends up with Fri/Sat/Sun off, while 601 has Tues/Weds/Thurs off I believe. It's been a little while since I've looked at the schedules for that end of the railroad. 323/324 operate on an on-call pool-board, and they don't hold a set "schedule". Manifests are operating 3 days a week, each direction last I looked.
VRS is operating 3 days a week / as needed on other days out of WRJ for freight, with various passenger excursions throughout the week/weekend depending on the date and what's been chartered.
It is still possible to see Pan-Am operating north of their trackage on current NECR property to interchange with the VRS, WACR, and NECR. Interchange points are Bellows Falls and the WACR yard at Bank. The former customers that Pan-Am had exclusive rights to serve will now become NECR customers. Pan-Am cannot service them on a set schedule, and doesn't make any attempt to do so. NECR has offered 7 day a week service as necessary. It is doubtful that you will see them continue to operate on NECR track any longer, unless by chance the OMYA slurry traffic re-routes back via Bellows Falls again which is highly doubtful.
Good luck with your train chasing, hopefully you'll see some action. There's been a few straggling well cars coming through from the P&W northbound to the CN. Maybe you'll catch a few of these tacked on to the manifest.
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GraniteRailroaderNECR has four "official" trains that will operate in and out of WRJ. 324 hour of St Albans going to Brattleboro, 323 out of Brattleboro to St Albans, 600 which is the "day" switcher in WRJ, and 601 which is the "night" switcher in WRJ.
Oh yeah! I had the train numbers reversed...
Also, the WACR yard at Bank, is that the one right behind the depot where the White River Flyer departs from? Or a different location?
If you'd like some more history and present-day information about the area, be sure to check out the article we ran in Trains Magazine about White River Junction in the February 2007 issue.
We made the bold claim that White River Junction could be the best-served rail city in the United States, considering the ratio of area residents to number of area railroads. Five railroads serve White River Junction, quite a remarkable number considering many big cities have only two railroads (Phoenix comes to mind) or one (Las Vegas).
It's a fascinating area.
Matt Van Hattem
Senior Editor
Check out SPV's Comprehensive Railroad Atlas of North America, the "New England & Maritime Canada" edition, by Mike Walker. Outstanding!!! Just about everything you want to know. I believe they are on sale, @ $25.00 right now. The "New England & Maritime Canada" volume does cost $5.00 extra. They are available from the publisher, Carstens, and Kalmbach. The NE&MC edition was recently updated, I believe. My copy is ten-years-old and about worn out!
Bill Hays -- wdh@mcn.net Shelby, MT
The hotel in White River Junction Vermont that is near the tracks has excellent food. We stopped there after our trip to the Mount Washington Cog Railway. I also was able to see the Vermonter. The volume of trains is down from what it was in 1962 when I was last there. The hotel did allow casual dress in the dining room; and prices were not out of line.
Matt VanHattem We made the bold claim that White River Junction could be the best-served rail city in the United States, considering the ratio of area residents to number of area railroads. Five railroads serve White River Junction, quite a remarkable numbre considering many big cities have only two railroads (Phoenix comes to mind) or one (Las Vegas).
We made the bold claim that White River Junction could be the best-served rail city in the United States, considering the ratio of area residents to number of area railroads. Five railroads serve White River Junction, quite a remarkable numbre considering many big cities have only two railroads (Phoenix comes to mind) or one (Las Vegas).
For the best served rail city, there sure aren't very many customers serviced by "five" railroads. In fact, there are a total of THREE customers in WRJ. Amtrak (on the NECR), the propane company (NECR, again), and the fuel dealer (again, NECR).
If you're counting "interchange" as being part of the rail served comment, I could understand how you get to five. But when you look at it, there are really three railroads "in town". The VRS, NECR, and AMTK. CCRR interchanges maybe twice a week. Pan Am / Guilford rarely ever comes up to WRJ into the WACR yard. Five railroads? That's a joke. Great way to catch readers though.
I think the February 2007 issue featured a story on the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic while the White River Junction story (by Charles Bohi) came later, like April 2008 (Great article, BTW...I'd like to see more locales covered this way!).
Are you sure you got your "numbres" right, Senior Editor Van Hattem? What would David P. say? I don't use SpelCheck, but I wonder how that got by. They do print books... Yar, there are three (of five) rail lines still serving WRJ, but I really wouldn't count Amtrak. WRJ customer base: virtually zero, methinks.
Bill
My grandfather was a CV engineer in the steam era, drove the Montrealer/Washingtonian. Here's some pics of the weathervane.
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/large/7b421be9-7900-44c4-8f89-511c833650d4.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086046
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086064
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086058
http://www.nyysa.com/archive/images/1/4/4603-0.jpg
Mike
By chance who is your grandfather?
I'm sure the senior guys at my terminal would recognize the name, as some of their fathers were company officials or engineers "back in the day"
Mike's pics of WRJ weather vane reminds me that the vane mysteriously dissappeared sometime in the late 60's or early 70/'s and just as mysteriously reappeared. Does anyone remember the circumstances?
And the brother of a guy I worked with in Owego, NY back in the 70's had a brother who was running for Amtrak, but had been with CV, WRJ to St. Albans...his name was Marsden...as we ask for names, anybody recognize him?
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From 1979 thru 1983 I went to Vermont, NH, and Maine every other year, culminating in a honeymoon trip in 1983. What a great part of our nation. Railroads seemed to blend in very well with the scenery.
The railroads supporting architecture seemed so much different than that in the Midwest. There were not many trains, those you saw were pretty special, but the scenery and surroundings were hard to beat. No trains? Big deal, drive thru the mountains and enjoy the fall foliage.
My guess is the area has changed in the 26 years since I have been there.
ed
You're right ed, there are lots of changes. I lived in Springfield MA back in the late 60s, left in 1968 but only in the last five or so years have been able to get there again...fewer trains, yes, but more and more scenery (or so it seems). Going to Bath, ME next weekend and am trying to figure out which of dozens of routings I am going to try to drive! Gotta get by Hoosic Tunnel but then there is.... (fill in the blanks)!
NECR 323/324 I believe are old CV symbols still in use. Also the Feb, 1982 rains has a very good detailed report on the Conn River line.
Bath, ME? I envy you! Lobstahs are about $1.50 a pound! Pig out!
As an old Vermonter, I am sorry to say that I only went to the Hoosic Tunnel, East Portal, once. Easy to get to, from the east, but I never tried to get over the Berkshires to the west side. Remnants of the electrification, and the junction with the Hoosic Tunnel & Wilmington were present, back in the early 70's. Sorry, but I have no POCs with PanAm Railways that could give you guidance. Watch out for the bears and the mooses!!!
The East Portal of Hoosac was really a great place. I made it there in 1979. No trains, but a very interesting place.
Are the leaves beginning to turn yet?
Leaves are pretty well turned...in fact I fear that next Friday when I go, may be too late, espeically in the far reaches of Down East...but that doesn't bother me, because the fewer the leaves the farther (and more) you can see revealing old roadbeds and buildings and the relationship of the track to the vicinity...
...Yes, apporaching Hoosic Tunnel from the East is easiest...but coming down the hill from Florida is easy too. If you make the correct turn of Rt 2. And then the correct turn off that road. Like I haven't once or twice! But the scenery is beautiful!
GraniteRailroader By chance who is your grandfather?
Joe MacDonald (1881-1971). His brothers Dan and Marshal were CV engineers as well. They might be remembered by old timers in St. Albans.
wanswheelJoe MacDonald (1881-1971). His brothers Dan and Marshal were CV engineers as well. They might be remembered by old timers in St. Albans.
The "old timers" know the names
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