Phoebe Vet VA and NC are in the process of reactivating a long abandoned right of way between Richmond and Raleigh which they had the foresight to preserve. It is to be used for the new Southeast Corridor HSR.
VA and NC are in the process of reactivating a long abandoned right of way between Richmond and Raleigh which they had the foresight to preserve. It is to be used for the new Southeast Corridor HSR.
Phoebe: Are you talking about the several different techniques to either abandon track and removal of same or leaving the track in place?
1. For the Maine trackage if the track is left then access to the wilderness areas are much easier if the track is reactivated for maybe class 3 or 4 trackage. this includes new ballast, ties, surfacing, etc.
2. For the Richmond - Raleigh rebuilding to Class 7 trackage all tracks will be need removal, scraping the subgrade, Adding a fabric liner, adding rock such as crusher run, compacting same, laying new ties, rail, ballast, and surfacing. That route will then not require the surfacing that would be necessary if tracks laid on the old roadbed. Thankfully this route has access at almost any location within an reasonable distance.
carnej1 Phoebe Vet carnej1 Given that the line in question seems unlikely to generate sufficient income from open access users to cover it's operational and maintenance costs...what's to keep the above proposal from becoming a taxpayer subsidized fun park for speeder/ hi-rail vehicle hobbyists? Sounds like another potential client for open access to me. And again I ask; why should taxpayers be asked to fund a "railroad fun park"? Do you honestly think that people running motor cars (speeders), hi-rail trucks ect. on the weekends will pay enough in access fees to cover the cost of the line? I am not opposed to the idea of public investment in rail, but this idea seems to basically be asking the government to subsidize people's hobbies..
Phoebe Vet carnej1 Given that the line in question seems unlikely to generate sufficient income from open access users to cover it's operational and maintenance costs...what's to keep the above proposal from becoming a taxpayer subsidized fun park for speeder/ hi-rail vehicle hobbyists? Sounds like another potential client for open access to me.
carnej1 Given that the line in question seems unlikely to generate sufficient income from open access users to cover it's operational and maintenance costs...what's to keep the above proposal from becoming a taxpayer subsidized fun park for speeder/ hi-rail vehicle hobbyists?
Given that the line in question seems unlikely to generate sufficient income from open access users to cover it's operational and maintenance costs...what's to keep the above proposal from becoming a taxpayer subsidized fun park for speeder/ hi-rail vehicle hobbyists?
Sounds like another potential client for open access to me.
Beside, who would be liable when there was a moose collision?
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
What I am actually in favor of is the state acquiring and preserving the right of way. If it can be used for something all the better but that is a separate argument.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Well, that could be part of what I am aiming for. Why not one day or one weekend a month let it be for speeder and hi-rail hobbyists or others just wanting to go on a Sunday drive into the woods? But I also could envision hi-rail into the wilderness and takeing off at crossings for hunters and campers as well for a unit train from any railroad consigned north and east of Millonocket. Or a hi-rail bus routing for daisy pickers or taking campers and hunters and fishermen in and out or to wherever. It is just a great spot for the experiment.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Here is a link to the MM&A route map. http://www.mmarail.com/downloads/mma_rail_map.pdf
They propose to abandon the line north from Millinocket to Madawaska. Check out the current Discovery Channel run on extreme loggers and you will see that the territory consist mainly of trees, caribou, loggers and the fool truckers who haul grossly overweight loads on restricted dirt roads west to mills in Quebec.
Those of you who know about Ed Brukhardt's running of the Wisconsin Central know that he and his people were willing to make deals with anybody moving freight in the railroad's territory. There is no indication he changed his MO when he bought the MM&A. So when he says there is not enough business along that line to make it a viable operation, he is not whistling di...-whatever they whistle in Northern Maine.
Exactly. Though I'm not crazy about individuals having access. But companies shipping their own good to an interchange, or between their own facilities would be appropriate. Sightseeing tour operators, A dinner train could make a once an evening round trip, even State owned and run passenger service to connect to the North East Corridor. Use your imagination.
If it is an open or public access railroad track, why restrict it to a single railroad company? Why can't a business, for instance, operate its own train from its plant (farm, factory, mine, whatever) to another similar location destination or to an interchange point? Or, why couldn't anybody with a viable vehicle (safety, power, reliablity, integrety, et al,) operate or travel a the line? I really don't think there are many pieces or stretches, or open regions, of railroad like this one in Maine that could be used for such an experiment. Vehicle/train "engineer" would have to be qualified to "drive" on the tracks and be restircted to a defined and "purchased" trip at a time specified at the time of purchase and under the direct control of a "dispatcher" or traffic controller. All movements would be by specific "warrent" or "order" and all moving vehicles will be equiped with a single channel, two way radio (or an assigned computer communication device for that matter). Payment could be based on weight, legnth and power of movement as well as distance with perhaps commercial and noncommercial rates (yeah, if you qualify to operate, have a car or vehicle with railroad wheels and locks, and want to take a Sunday spin into the woods or back to the city, why not?),
Isn't that exactly the situation where a publicly owned ROW, operated like a toll road, would make sense? A railroad could use it only when they had a need, and not be concerned about maintaining it or paying property tax on it.
edbenton Why because the RR started to IGNORE the local Industry that needs less than Unit Train Service or less than 20 cars a month.
Why because the RR started to IGNORE the local Industry that needs less than Unit Train Service or less than 20 cars a month.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
( What? - and ignore the fact that taxpayers have had to subsidize the trucking industry since its inception?)
rrnut282 henry6 "Trucks put many more people to work than trains do," Sidelinger said. "Let's let free competition and capitalism flourish and let the chips fall where they may. If the railroads can't survive, they can't survive, but they're the ones that are running like dinosaurs, not us." Spoken like teamster. I agree Henry, does his vision of capitalist competition include building the roads his truck travels upon? What about paying his fair share of maintenence costs for the excess damage his truck does to the roads he travels? Current taxes and licenses don't cover those costs to the state(s).
henry6 "Trucks put many more people to work than trains do," Sidelinger said. "Let's let free competition and capitalism flourish and let the chips fall where they may. If the railroads can't survive, they can't survive, but they're the ones that are running like dinosaurs, not us."
"Trucks put many more people to work than trains do," Sidelinger said. "Let's let free competition and capitalism flourish and let the chips fall where they may. If the railroads can't survive, they can't survive, but they're the ones that are running like dinosaurs, not us."
Spoken like teamster.
I agree Henry, does his vision of capitalist competition include building the roads his truck travels upon? What about paying his fair share of maintenence costs for the excess damage his truck does to the roads he travels? Current taxes and licenses don't cover those costs to the state(s).
It's not today we live for, it's TOMORROW! we can not predict where our world will go tomorrow.
In Connecticut, after asking the state 20 years ago, Amtrak single tracked there 80mph main from New Haven to Springfield. Today the state wants to "double track" it at great cost to restore commuter service. From Waterbury to Hartford the "Terryville Tunnel" line is light freight on the Gilford Rail System. This was once a "Double Track" New Haven main, the "Highland Division". My state is now spending "tons" of money to see if the line can be upgraded (restored) for commuter service, a line that had through service to Boston in 1955. The line that ran near my house was ripped up to make a very popular "Rail Trail". The rails were used to "Re-Open" the line from Hartford to Middletown.
Save your Rail Lines, your next generation may need them.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
And you know what?...I am familiar enough with Maine to say that this would be the perfect opportunity to attempt a public access railroad as an experiment. The locale, the geography, the history, the traffic density, the potential traffic for both frieght and passengers, the social attitudes and standards; it just smacks of "come try me here and now"!
Well said Mr. North. I wonder if anyone in Maine is making that same point? That's one disadvantage when trying to follow a story that is unfolding in a different state than the one in which you live. You just get bits and pieces. I wonder if the Miane legislature would pay attention to the views of someone from Tennessee. Probably not.
George
From the article above:
Larry Sidelinger, an independent trucker from Damariscotta, Maine, said the purchase would be an unfair government subsidy. "Trucks put many more people to work than trains do," Sidelinger said.
And I'll observe that using horse-drawn carts instead of trucks would put even more people to work. Is that criteria and goal what we as an economic society really want to do ?
But if the state buys the line, then the track ought to be available to any potential users on an 'open access' basis, just like the highways. Sure, the state can have a Designated Operator - like a taxi or bus service - on whatever terms the state feels are appropriate, which I suppose could include exclusive rights of service = a legal monopoly on all traffic, if that's what it takes to induce an operator to provide service, esp. if a subsidy has to be involved. But I could see an argument to be made that a high-volume movement should have the right to provide its own equipment and crews - subject to safety standards and coordination of dispatching, of course - to an interchange point, just like you can drive your car on the same road that the taxi uses. Not that the track would likely be used much, but the DO shouldn't be a roadblock, that's all.
- Paul North.
In these deals it's always the small independents who speak up. If one of the big companies speaks up, it looks like they are afraid of the competetion.
What gets hauled off of this stretch of track, and how many truckloads would this be on the roads? If there's enough truckloads involved, the subsidy could be offset by the savings on road maintainance.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Fortunately here in NC, the State has seen the value of preserving abandoned right of way.
North Carolina Rail Road is a private company wholly owned by the State.
They are in the process of doing almost 100 million dollars in upgrades to the track between Charlotte and Raleigh, which is owned by NCRR and leased to NS. The upgrades are in anticipation of the proposed South East Rail Corridor but in the mean time have greatly improved the existing passenger rail service on that route.
http://www.ncrr.com/
AUGUSTA, Maine - Some workers in Maine's trucking industry are urging the legislature not to buy 241 miles of track slated for abandonment, the Maine Public Broadcasting Network has reported. Larry Sidelinger, an independent trucker from Damariscotta, Maine, said the purchase would be an unfair government subsidy. "Trucks put many more people to work than trains do," Sidelinger said. "Let's let free competition and capitalism flourish and let the chips fall where they may. If the railroads can't survive, they can't survive, but they're the ones that are running like dinosaurs, not us." Montreal, Maine & Atlantic has proposed closing the trackage, saying revenue on the lines doesn't support their continued existence in private hands. A group of legislators is pushing for the state to buy the lines, and MM&A President Ed Burkhardt said he'd operate them under contract.
But does Mr. Sidelinger know who owns and maintains the highways and roads he drives his truck on? Then when he continues he makes less sense. Do all independent truckers feel this way and say the same thing? Do the larger trucking companies feel the same?
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