larsend I don't know how to tell you this...but...a 50L6 was the original tube type used in the S-38. I just checked inside the S-38 I am listening to, then checked the original User's Manual. I bought mine in 1950 when I was in High School. It is still going strong, working perfectly. All I did was replace the capacitors several years ago. You have got to love the All-American 5 Tube Superhetrodyne Radio!
I don't know how to tell you this...but...a 50L6 was the original tube type used in the S-38. I just checked inside the S-38 I am listening to, then checked the original User's Manual.
I bought mine in 1950 when I was in High School. It is still going strong, working perfectly. All I did was replace the capacitors several years ago. You have got to love the All-American 5 Tube Superhetrodyne Radio!
I remember seeing that Hallicrafters started selling a modified S-38 which did not have the b.f.o. or noise limiter; this is probably what you have. I was at first puzzled by the lack of some controls on the front.
Yes, the All-American Superhet circuit was quite the thing; you could run in on 110 volts AC or DC. Whether it was built with the original tube lineup, or with Loctal tubes, or with miniature tubes, millions were sold, and there may well be thousands still in use.
Johnny
Modelcar Coordinated Universal Time...."tick....tick.....tick"....tick....tone".
Coordinated Universal Time...."tick....tick.....tick"....tick....tone".
Quentin
I've enjoyed all the discussion on this thread, and the discussion of timekeeping reminds me of the time when you trust a radio announcer to be giving you the correct time--since he was looking at a standard clock. Nowadays, I don't trust radio or television for correct time. From time to time, I check my watch against what used to be called "The National Bureau of Standards" (I disremember what it is called now)--which I have used for more than sixty years.
The history of time and timekeeping is interesting. For instance, there was a time when the most accurate clock could be depended upon to give you the hour, and most clocks had only one hand.
Okay!
Yes, WU clocks would automatically set on the hour, usually within two to four seconds, especially those at broadcasting stations. Railroad clocks however, were actually "set" by the noon tones sent by WU.
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My radio station in the 1960s had a Western Union clock. They reset the clock once an hour, at the top of the hour. A few seconds before the top of the hour the minute and second hands would be brought to straight up, on the "12." At exactly on the hour they would be released. The clock was battery operated.
An interesting side note: The Bell Telephone System would not rent circuits to Western Union due to the fact that they were competitors. Western Union would run their own wire on the poles in town. In order to get us service, Western Union had to run a pair from our studios to the local Southern Pacific station in town, almost two miles away. They used the same electric utility poles that the telephone company used.
Most railroad clocks which were to be showing accurate time were "Standard Clocks" and networked for consistancy thorugh Western Union. At noon EST each day, WU would "count down" for one minute to noon based on the US Naval Obeservatory time standard. Those "manning" the Standard Clock would push a button if needed, at the stroke of noon EST to assure that the clock was in syc. Radio and TV stations also used the WU Standard clock system up into the 60's.
Kootenay Central Most roundhouse offices had a telegraph sounder on a little shelf by the comparison clock that the crews used to compare and set their watches before going to work. These Terminal clocks were usually long-box Seth Thomas pendulum movements much larger than the common station clock.
Most roundhouse offices had a telegraph sounder on a little shelf by the comparison clock that the crews used to compare and set their watches before going to work.
These Terminal clocks were usually long-box Seth Thomas pendulum movements much larger than the common station clock.
Enjoyed your "run down" on clocks and official time...
Interesting how "acturate" time was controlled back then before all that is available now. Even my wristwatch is radio controlled now....
On the Seth Thomas pendulum clocks....I'm wondering if the person in charge of taking care of the "time"....adjusted the "pendulum length", as seasons changed. That is my experience with the 3 regulator wall clocks I have. Seasonally, the pendulum changes {ever so small}, but change, they do...in length. One must adjust to compensate the humidity change seasonally to keep them as close as one can.
Anyway.....enjoyed your written run down on the clock / sounder operations.
.
Mudchicken; having read pg. 1 thru 4 of Lineside wires , a very informative thread which brought back memories 65yrs. past. The bird wire was on PRR in Dayton Ohio . The wires made a pinging sound when I tossed a handfull of pea gravel at them . Did that make a Starwars noise in someones earphones??? I never knew. Respectfully, Cannonball
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
PDN, along the colorado r. from Rifle to Glenwood Canyon there is still ( bird wires) with poles leaning or still straight. Places along that route all the lines are down,while otherpoles have all the wires. This is visible on I-70 east. Glenwood Canyon is a photogs. dream . Amtrak runs between the river and the canyon wall. We saw this last nov. That was quite a feat for the RR men to build the line thru there in the 1900s Cannonball
From some railroad reading, those railroads with two lines may have been those who leased the ROW for dedicated wire service telegraph, like Western Union. One of the better Erie Railroad books talked about Western Union's poles getting cut due to a dispute between WU and the Erie. The MOW workers chopped down every WU pole, legend says.
Would be interesting to see a close-up or detailed photo of what blue streak 1 is describing above, even if just to the side of the main subject, such as a loco. Anybody have such a photo, or a link to one [Q]
I grew up with two different line side wires. The N&W used wires on one side. The top wire was a neutral. next down were three phase AC lines. At each signal location a box looking transformer ( don't know how they were connected). Signal wires were next usually 5 including a CTC pair. Next crossarm or crossarms were for communications depending on the location.
SOU RR did it differently. One side of ROW would have all communication line cross arms (Knoxville sub had 6 pair). The signal system was on poles on the other side. Three AC lines were installed (three phase)one on top of pole and a short crossarm supported the other two (no neutral). A small can type transformer ( think miniature household transformer) connected to two of the three phases for all needed power locations . The next cross arm contained the signal wires usually three on single track locations in remote areas or more lines for siding approaches and crossings that were all distance activated. If CTC installed two more lines installed. On current of traffic double track the circuits were in the track and no signal lines would be on the poles unless crossing signals activation required. Sometime after 1960 SOU started installing crossing signals that were timed and usually received commercial power for their use and gradually retired the grade crossing lines and have removed all communication and NS still removing signal power lines as they go to RCL or use -track code circuits..
CGW Sorry if this was previously covered, but now that the pole lines are mostly gone, how are block signals powered? Batteries or underground utility lines? Jeff
Sorry if this was previously covered, but now that the pole lines are mostly gone, how are block signals powered? Batteries or underground utility lines?
Jeff
Yes. And solar panels and local utility above ground, too. Remember these operate at very low voltages.
Thank You!
Paul_D_North_Jr Hey, Johnny - I believe it was called 'galvanizing'. One of our mutual favorite references - A Treasury of Railroad Folklore - has a whole chapter on telegraphy, I believe, though the description of the electrical works is slim as I recall, But there is an account of a dying telegrapher who - true to the nature of his calling - spoke briefly and quickly to his colleagues something like the following - ''Circuit's dead, boys - battery's spent; no time to galvanize now. Guess I'll have to cut off.'' You could look it up . . . If nothing else, the description of the chemistry involved may jog your memory. - Paul North. EDIT - For more on the chemistry, see ''The Electromagnetic Telegraph'' at - http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm and especially ix. ''The Telegraph Line: Batteries'' at - http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm#HB - PDN.
Hey, Johnny -
I believe it was called 'galvanizing'. One of our mutual favorite references - A Treasury of Railroad Folklore - has a whole chapter on telegraphy, I believe, though the description of the electrical works is slim as I recall, But there is an account of a dying telegrapher who - true to the nature of his calling - spoke briefly and quickly to his colleagues something like the following -
''Circuit's dead, boys - battery's spent; no time to galvanize now. Guess I'll have to cut off.''
You could look it up . . . If nothing else, the description of the chemistry involved may jog your memory.
- Paul North.
EDIT - For more on the chemistry, see ''The Electromagnetic Telegraph'' at - http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm
and especially ix. ''The Telegraph Line: Batteries'' at - http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm#HB
- PDN.
The second link you gave gives information about the cells directly. I also found this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniell_cell As I remember, the cells used in my home town were gravity cells (at least, I remember them as looking like the illustration). The links describe the renewal of the cells. As to galvanization, we may usually think of galvanized iron (iron coated with zinc through an electrolytic process), but it seems that any metal could be galvanized or coated with zinc, and, again, you can be galvanized into action if someone applies a bullprod to you.
Deggesty Larry, if what I saw in the depot at home was standard, each station had a wet-cell battery (it was not lead-sulfuric acid); it may been solely to power the sounder in the station, but may also have been used to boost the current along the way. From time to time, the agent would have to build the battery up; I believe I knew just what the agent was doing when I saw him doing this one day, but in the more than fifty years since, I have forgotten just what it was. Johnny
Johnny, To find breaks, shorts, and a number of other defects we use TDRs, or Time Domain Reflectometers. These send out a pulse of signal and by exact timeing determine the distance to the fault. Cheap ones just detect major faults and give a LED display of the distance in footage (or meters). The more expensive ones have graphic displays that display ^amplitude vs. >time. I have a neet little handheld unit with an LCD graph display. I can locate faults +/- 5 feet up to 2 miles away. For fiber optic lines we use OTDRs or Optical Time Domain Reflectometers. The OTDR I have can "shoot" up to 10 miles.
DeggestyYes, you spelled Kirchoff correctly,
Deggesty tree68There was electricity involved, although I won't claim to know exactly how it was set up. Larry, if what I saw in the depot at home was standard, each station had a wet-cell battery...
tree68There was electricity involved, although I won't claim to know exactly how it was set up.
Larry, if what I saw in the depot at home was standard, each station had a wet-cell battery...
The linked articles laid out the basics pretty well. I'm a little smarter on the subject than I was!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
morsemanThis is what the linemen would use to locate where a break was in the wires. It used a electrical formula called Kirchoff's law (spelling ??) The wire chief would use this also, but it was a larger unit mounted on a bay in the wire chief's or T&R Chief's office. One day a T&R Chief was driving into the Megantic office & he noticed a pair of wires were broken just near the White Rose gas station. He lied to the wire chief in Montreal that he checked his wheatstone bridge & the break was point 3 past a certain mile post. The linemen found the break at that specific point & could not figure how a weatstone bridge be so accurate.
Yes, you spelled Kirchoff correctly, so it can be easy to look his laws (Current & Voltage) up. We do have to be careful with these names from other countries (they can be almost as bad as some of the Old Testament names).
Wheatstone bridge--I hadn't thought much, if at all, of wheatstone bridges since I finished my course in physical chemistry 52 years ago. They can be very accurate, but I would doubt the accuracy implied by the T&R Chief's report. I do not know what kind of circuitry is used by telephone companies to determine the location of breaks in lines, but a few months ago there was a break in one of the wires of our line, and the lineman was able to pinpoint it as being a certain number of houses away.
ModelcarWhat is "building up a battery"......? Is it a form of charging....and by what means....?
Yes, it is a form of charging. Imagine how many stations had electric power (as we know it) when the use of telegraphy began. Nowadays, we simply plug an adapter into an outlet and get the power we need for the low voltage applications. I think agent added more of the salt (perhaps ferric chloride) that was used in the electrolyte, and he also may have added water to make up for loss from evaporation.
Deggesty From time to time, the agent would have to build the battery up
What is "building up a battery"......? Is it a form of charging....and by what means....?
Larry, if what I saw in the depot at home was standard, each station had a wet-cell battery (it was not lead-sulfuric acid); it may been solely to power the sounder in the station, but may also have been used to boost the current along the way. From time to time, the agent would have to build the battery up; I believe I knew just what the agent was doing when I saw him doing this one day, but in the more than fifty years since, I have forgotten just what it was.
Paul_D_North_Jrtina - In one of the previous threads that I referred to last night, there was another link to a website that would provide a lot more info. Unfortunately, as of this morning, it seems to be 'unavailable'. I have been able to retrieve a little bit of it by searching for the article titles as an 'Exact Phrase' with Google Advanced Search, and then using its 'Cached' storage/ retrieval feature - at least one of those sites is stated to have been still active as of May 9th = 3 months ago. So I'll post the pertinent excerpts here, hopefully pending a return of the full website on-line. This is Google's cache of http://www.faradic.net/~gsraven/telegraph_tales/drgw/drgw_stories.htm. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on May 11, 2009 01:33:38 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more Text-only version These terms only appear in links pointing to this page: telegraph tales OK, now I found it - looks like a new website - 'LAST UPDATE July, 2009' at - http://www.telegraphlore.com/ See especially - http://www.telegraphlore.com/technology/tech_index.html and http://www.telegraphlore.com/technology/basic_circuit.html For railroad applications in the context of the DRGW Narrow Gauge, see - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/drgw_web/drgw_stories.htm and also 'True Stories of Working the Wires' at - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/tg_tales.html In particular, the RECOLLECTIONS OF A NARROW GAUGE LIGHTNING SLINGER (As told to me by John B. Norwood) by Gregory S. Raven at - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/drgw_web/part2/jbnpage1.htm is highly recommended by me - some of you may know or remember John Norwood from his account in a 1969 issue of Trains of re-opening the NG after a surprise blizzard. If you've read this far or are interested in this subject, you'll enjoy any of these links. tina, although I can read technical stuff as well as anyone, if I really wanted to understand something as intangible and mysterious as electricity as applied to telegraphy - remember, I'm a civil engineer and a 'track guy', not C-and-S - then I'd either go to a museum, display, show, or sale, etc. that has working sets and people who understand them and will let you 'play' with them and get a 'hands-on' explanation, demonstration, and education, or buy a beginner's or demonstration or toy set and play around with that, just to get the basics down and the principles understood. But that's just me - you may be able to do fine with only these references and descriptions. Enjoy. - Paul North.
tina -
In one of the previous threads that I referred to last night, there was another link to a website that would provide a lot more info. Unfortunately, as of this morning, it seems to be 'unavailable'. I have been able to retrieve a little bit of it by searching for the article titles as an 'Exact Phrase' with Google Advanced Search, and then using its 'Cached' storage/ retrieval feature - at least one of those sites is stated to have been still active as of May 9th = 3 months ago. So I'll post the pertinent excerpts here, hopefully pending a return of the full website on-line.
See especially - http://www.telegraphlore.com/technology/tech_index.html and http://www.telegraphlore.com/technology/basic_circuit.html
For railroad applications in the context of the DRGW Narrow Gauge, see - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/drgw_web/drgw_stories.htm
and also 'True Stories of Working the Wires' at - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/tg_tales.html
In particular, the RECOLLECTIONS OF A NARROW GAUGE LIGHTNING SLINGER (As told to me by John B. Norwood) by Gregory S. Raven at - http://www.telegraphlore.com/telegraph_tales/drgw_web/part2/jbnpage1.htm is highly recommended by me - some of you may know or remember John Norwood from his account in a 1969 issue of Trains of re-opening the NG after a surprise blizzard.
If you've read this far or are interested in this subject, you'll enjoy any of these links.
tina, although I can read technical stuff as well as anyone, if I really wanted to understand something as intangible and mysterious as electricity as applied to telegraphy - remember, I'm a civil engineer and a 'track guy', not C-and-S - then I'd either go to a museum, display, show, or sale, etc. that has working sets and people who understand them and will let you 'play' with them and get a 'hands-on' explanation, demonstration, and education, or buy a beginner's or demonstration or toy set and play around with that, just to get the basics down and the principles understood. But that's just me - you may be able to do fine with only these references and descriptions. Enjoy.
Paul, I have to admit that last night, or actually early this morning, I didn't check the links. But I have already, at least the one with the picture of the telegraph apparatus and sure enough it shows batteries. Very interesting, indeed. I so appreciate this. My dad didn't continue using the telegraph much past my childhood, switching to radio instead. I look forward to reading more. I even considered going after my ham license once.
Larry, maybe that CW, continuous wave, continues from my dad, except from up on high. Now there's one electrifying thought for the morning.
thanks.
tina
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