My rail watching days are now practically finished. On the CN Newmarket SD (Toronto-Northbay) there used to be two or three long CN freights during he day. Now these trains are going past my condo during the early am hours 218am, 330am etc. There are three level crossings nearby, (two with lights and one unprotected. Trains passing through town are not giving the usual horn signals at these crossings, Sometimes one long, sometimes three or four shorts sometimes a couple of longs and sometimes no soundings of the horn at all. The odd time when a freight does pass through during the day the warning signals are the same. The two Ontario Northland trains give the proper warnings.
I am unaware of the town of Bracebridge, On. making the town a railway quiet zone. Can anyone give me a clue whats happening?
Interesting...my guess would be it is a quiet zone at least during certain hours, and the engineers are only using the horn to alert motorists (or maybe people or animals on the track?) that they need to move.
Maybe just trying to be nice - not making any more noise than absolutely necessary ?
For the opposite situation, see the contemporaneous thread ''Any idea why this would be...'', esp. the last few posts, at - http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/157569.aspx
- PDN.
Don't know about Canada, but in the U. S., trying to be nice went the way of the Dodo bird a couple of years back with the FRA-mandated instructions on correct whistleblowing at public crossings.
I was thinking there might be a set time that whistleblowing is prohibited in that town and the poster wasn't aware of it being in effect, yet.
The FRA mandates how to blow the horn, it does not mandate at how loud it must be blown..
the only rule is that a horn can produce a sound equal to following rule:
Sec. 229.129 Locomotive horn. (a) Each lead locomotive shall be equipped with a locomotive horn that produces a minimum sound level of 96 dB(A) and a maximum sound level of 110 dB(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of travel. The locomotive horn shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently operated from the engineer's usual position during operation of the locomotive. (b)(1) Each locomotive built on or after September 18, 2006 shall be tested in accordance with this section to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a) of this section. Locomotives built on or after September 18, 2006 may, however, be tested in accordance with an acceptance sampling scheme such that there is a probability of .05 or less of rejecting a lot with a proportion of defectives equal to an AQL of 1% or less, as set forth in 7 CFR part 43. (2) Each locomotive built before September 18, 2006 shall be tested in accordance with this section before June 24, 2010 to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a) of this section. (3) Each remanufactured locomotive, as determined pursuant to Sec. 229.5 of this part, shall be tested in accordance with this section to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a). (4)(i) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(4)(ii) of this section, each locomotive equipped with a replacement locomotive horn shall be tested, in accordance with paragraph (c) of this section, before the next two annual tests required by Sec. 229.27 of this part are completed. (ii) Locomotives that have already been tested individually or through acceptance sampling, in accordance with paragraphs (b)(1), (b)(2), or (b)(3) of this section, shall not be required to undergo sound level testing when equipped with a replacement locomotive horn, provided the replacement locomotive horn is of the same model as the locomotive horn that was replaced and the mounting location and type of mounting are the same. (c) Testing of the locomotive horn sound level shall be in accordance with the following requirements: (1) A properly calibrated sound level meter shall be used that, at a minimum, complies with the requirements of International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Standard 61672-1 (2002-05) for a Class 2 instrument. (2) An acoustic calibrator shall be used that, at a minimum, complies with the requirements of IEC standard 60942 (1997-11) for a Class 2 instrument. (3) The manufacturer's instructions pertaining to mounting and orienting the microphone; positioning of the observer; and periodic factory recalibration shall be followed. (4) A microphone windscreen shall be used and tripods or similar microphone mountings shall be used that minimize[[Page 441]]interference with the sound being measured. (5) The test site shall be free of large reflective structures, such as barriers, hills, billboards, tractor trailers or other large vehicles, locomotives or rail cars on adjacent tracks, bridges or buildings, within 200 feet to the front and sides of the locomotive. The locomotive shall be positioned on straight, level track. (6) Measurements shall be taken only when ambient air temperature is between 32 degrees and 104 degrees Fahrenheit inclusively; relative humidity is between 20 percent and 95 percent inclusively; wind velocity is not more than 12 miles per hour and there is no precipitation. (7) With the exception of cab-mounted or low-mounted horns, the microphone shall be located 100 feet forward of the front knuckle of the locomotive, 15 feet above the top of the rail, at an angle no greater than 20 degrees from the center line of the track, and oriented with respect to the sound source according to the manufacturer's recommendations. For cab-mounted and low-mounted horns, the microphone shall be located 100 feet forward of the front knuckle of the locomotive, four feet above the top of the rail, at an angle no greater than 20 degrees from the center line of the track, and oriented with respect to the sound source according to the manufacturer's recommendations. The observer shall not stand between the microphone and the horn. (8) Background noise shall be minimal: the sound level at the test site immediately before and after each horn sounding event shall be at least 10 dB(A) below the level measured during the horn sounding. (9) Measurement procedures. The sound level meter shall be set for A-weighting with slow exponential response and shall be calibrated with the acoustic calibrator immediately before and after compliance tests. Any change in the before and after calibration levels shall be less than 0.5 dB. After the output from the locomotive horn system has reached a stable level, the A-weighted equivalent sound level (slow response) for a 10-second duration (LAeq, 10s) shall be obtained either directly using an integrating-averaging sound level meter, or recorded once per second and calculated indirectly. The arithmetic-average of a series of at least six such 10-second duration readings shall be used to determine compliance. The standard deviation of the readings shall be less than 1.5 dB. (10) Written reports of locomotive horn testing required by this part shall be made and shall reflect horn type; the date, place, and manner of testing; and sound level measurements. These reports, which shall be signed by the person who performs the test, shall be retained by the railroad, at a location of its choice, until a subsequent locomotive horn test is completed and shall be made available, upon request, to FRA as provided by 49 U.S.C. 20107. (d) This section does not apply to locomotives of rapid transit operations which are otherwise subject to this part.
If there's a minimum, they are saying that it must be at least THIS loud so I don't really understand the point of your posting. As for the rest of it, since we're discussing crossings in a town in Canada, unless we get a Canadian familiar with Canadian rail transportation requirements and/or silent zones, we really aren't going to learn the answer. I'm hoping we do.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be mean.
Many thanks for the responses. Especially the one about FRA mandate on horn blowing.. I had somehow hought that CN Pres. Hunter had something to do with changing the scheduling of trains here. Last few days I haven't been wakened by trains in the early am & now notice the usual ones going through town starting around 730am with the normal sounding of their horns. I believe now there must be some kind of notice to CN about a quiet zone at night. Also several months ago there was a slow order here account of track work and believe there might have been further track work further down the line & trains were scheduled to run through at nite to allow for longer time slots for MOW personnel. Thanks again for your responses.
Atmospheric conditions, temperature, humidity, wind direction, cloud cover all have signifigant effects on who hears what and how loud. I live about 2 miles from one crossing and a mile and a half from another crossing. Sometimes you have to strain to hear trains blowing for the crossings, other times you sware they trains are operating in my own driveway when they blow for the crossings.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The Minimum and Maximum are just mechanical limits as to what the horn specifications are.
It does not specify on how the engineer has to blow the horn.
Dutchrailnut The FRA mandates how to blow the horn, it does not mandate at how loud it must be blown.. the only rule is that a horn can produce a sound equal to following rule: Sec. 229.129 Locomotive horn. (a) Each lead locomotive shall be equipped with a locomotive horn that produces a minimum sound level of 96 dB(A) and a maximum sound level of 110 dB(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of travel. The locomotive horn shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently operated from the engineer's usual position during operation of the locomotive. (b)(1) Each locomotive built on or after September 18, 2006 shall be tested in accordance with this section to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a) of this section. Locomotives built on or after September 18, 2006 may, however, be tested in accordance with an acceptance sampling scheme such that there is a probability of .05 or less of rejecting a lot with a proportion of defectives equal to an AQL of 1% or less, as set forth in 7 CFR part 43. (2) Each locomotive built before September 18, 2006 shall be tested in accordance with this section before June 24, 2010 to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a) of this section. (3) Each remanufactured locomotive, as determined pursuant to Sec. 229.5 of this part, shall be tested in accordance with this section to ensure that the horn installed on such locomotive is in compliance with paragraph (a). (4)(i) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(4)(ii) of this section, each locomotive equipped with a replacement locomotive horn shall be tested, in accordance with paragraph (c) of this section, before the next two annual tests required by Sec. 229.27 of this part are completed. (ii) Locomotives that have already been tested individually or through acceptance sampling, in accordance with paragraphs (b)(1), (b)(2), or (b)(3) of this section, shall not be required to undergo sound level testing when equipped with a replacement locomotive horn, provided the replacement locomotive horn is of the same model as the locomotive horn that was replaced and the mounting location and type of mounting are the same. (c) Testing of the locomotive horn sound level shall be in accordance with the following requirements: (1) A properly calibrated sound level meter shall be used that, at a minimum, complies with the requirements of International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Standard 61672-1 (2002-05) for a Class 2 instrument. (2) An acoustic calibrator shall be used that, at a minimum, complies with the requirements of IEC standard 60942 (1997-11) for a Class 2 instrument. (3) The manufacturer's instructions pertaining to mounting and orienting the microphone; positioning of the observer; and periodic factory recalibration shall be followed. (4) A microphone windscreen shall be used and tripods or similar microphone mountings shall be used that minimize[[Page 441]]interference with the sound being measured. (5) The test site shall be free of large reflective structures, such as barriers, hills, billboards, tractor trailers or other large vehicles, locomotives or rail cars on adjacent tracks, bridges or buildings, within 200 feet to the front and sides of the locomotive. The locomotive shall be positioned on straight, level track. (6) Measurements shall be taken only when ambient air temperature is between 32 degrees and 104 degrees Fahrenheit inclusively; relative humidity is between 20 percent and 95 percent inclusively; wind velocity is not more than 12 miles per hour and there is no precipitation. (7) With the exception of cab-mounted or low-mounted horns, the microphone shall be located 100 feet forward of the front knuckle of the locomotive, 15 feet above the top of the rail, at an angle no greater than 20 degrees from the center line of the track, and oriented with respect to the sound source according to the manufacturer's recommendations. For cab-mounted and low-mounted horns, the microphone shall be located 100 feet forward of the front knuckle of the locomotive, four feet above the top of the rail, at an angle no greater than 20 degrees from the center line of the track, and oriented with respect to the sound source according to the manufacturer's recommendations. The observer shall not stand between the microphone and the horn. (8) Background noise shall be minimal: the sound level at the test site immediately before and after each horn sounding event shall be at least 10 dB(A) below the level measured during the horn sounding. (9) Measurement procedures. The sound level meter shall be set for A-weighting with slow exponential response and shall be calibrated with the acoustic calibrator immediately before and after compliance tests. Any change in the before and after calibration levels shall be less than 0.5 dB. After the output from the locomotive horn system has reached a stable level, the A-weighted equivalent sound level (slow response) for a 10-second duration (LAeq, 10s) shall be obtained either directly using an integrating-averaging sound level meter, or recorded once per second and calculated indirectly. The arithmetic-average of a series of at least six such 10-second duration readings shall be used to determine compliance. The standard deviation of the readings shall be less than 1.5 dB. (10) Written reports of locomotive horn testing required by this part shall be made and shall reflect horn type; the date, place, and manner of testing; and sound level measurements. These reports, which shall be signed by the person who performs the test, shall be retained by the railroad, at a location of its choice, until a subsequent locomotive horn test is completed and shall be made available, upon request, to FRA as provided by 49 U.S.C. 20107. (d) This section does not apply to locomotives of rapid transit operations which are otherwise subject to this part.
938 words. 18 paragraphs. Of Federal Regulations. On horns. Did we have a problem with train horns?
We are freaking doomed.
''We don't have to worry about the Russians destroying us - we've perfected 'do-it-yourself' methods.'' - Robert Townsend in his 1960s book, Up the Organization.
More likely - as you'll see from the excerpts below - these regs were promulgated by the FRA to establish a 'safe harbor' for the railroads so as to pre-empt and squash any claims that 'the horn wasn't loud enough or sounded long enough', etc. as the basis for civil tort liability lawsuits [for dollars] from grade crossing accidents, and the like.
To further dismay greyhounds, the entire 'Part' of the FRA'S horn rules - Title 49--Transportation, of the Codified Federal Regulations ['CFR'], CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, PART 222--USE OF LOCOMOTIVE HORNS AT PUBLIC HIGHWAY-RAIL GRADE CROSSINGS, is at -
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_08/49cfr222_08.html
Sec. 222.21 When must a locomotive horn be used? of Subpart B_Use of Locomotive Horns is at - http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/49cfr222.21.htm
and provides as follows [in pertinent part; emphasis added - PDN] -
''(a) Except as provided in this part, the locomotive horn on the lead locomotive of a train, lite locomotive consist, individual locomotive or lead cab car shall be sounded when such locomotive or lead cab car is approaching a public highway-rail grade crossing. Sounding of the locomotive horn with two long blasts, one short blast and one long blast shall be initiated at a location so as to be in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and shall be repeated or prolonged until the locomotive occupies the crossing. This pattern may be varied as necessary where crossings are spaced closely together.''
''(b) (2) . . . [T]he locomotive horn shall begin to be sounded at least 15 seconds, but no more than 20 seconds, before the locomotive enters the crossing. It shall not constitute a violation of this section if, acting in good faith, a locomotive engineer begins sounding the locomotive horn not more than 25 seconds before the locomotive enters the crossing, if the locomotive engineer is unable to precisely estimate the time of arrival of the train at the crossing for whatever reason.''
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_JrSounding of the locomotive horn with two long blasts, one short blast and one long blast shall be initiated at a location so as to be in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and shall be repeated or prolonged until the locomotive occupies the crossing. This pattern may be varied as necessary where crossings are spaced closely together.''
When you are moving at eighty mph through a town that has many crossings, it can be impossible to sound the proper warning for every crossing. I don't know how the engineer of the City of New Orleans blew the horn in the small towns in North Mississippi, but when I rode the engine from Memphis to Grenada (many years ago), I used the last blast for one crossing as the first blast for the next crossing. He did not correct me. I did relinquish the cord when it became too dark for me to distiniguish between a mile post and a whistle post.
Johnny
Johnny, I left out the following portion in the interest of brevity - but you've now made it relevant enough to warrant inclusion here:
''(3) Trains, locomotive consists and individual locomotives traveling at speeds in excess of 60 mph shall not begin sounding the horn more than one-quarter mile (1,320 feet) in advance of the nearest public highway-rail grade crossing, even if the advance warning provided by the locomotive horn will be less than 15 seconds in duration.'' [emphasis added - PDN]
So it seems that high speeds plus closely-spaced crossings are a challenge that provides the engineer with some latitude to be creative. I remember an article or story in Trains many years ago - I think it was by the late John Crosby, in one of his articles about running double-headed PRR K4s's on passenger trains at high speed - about an engineer - I recall that his name was 'Milo Beard', on an big-steam locomotive excursion on the GTW, in the vicinity of Plymouth, Michigan [a western suburb of Detroit] - who was blowing the whistle for a lot of closely-spaced crossings while running at very high speed. I can't recall Crosby's exact eloquent turn of phrase, but it was to the effect that ''the resulting cacophony of sound brought all automobile traffic for miles around to a halt'', or similar. I wish I could have heard and seen that.
Paul_D_North_Jr''(3) Trains, locomotive consists and individual locomotives traveling at speeds in excess of 60 mph shall not begin sounding the horn more than one-quarter mile (1,320 feet) in advance of the nearest public highway-rail grade crossing, even if the advance warning provided by the locomotive horn will be less than 15 seconds in duration.'' [emphasis added - PDN]
After reading this, I timed what may have been my sounding the warning: five seconds. However, the whistle posts were set at a distance which was right for the speed.
I could have added that much of the way, wherever the track permitted, we were running at ninety mph--with ABS; no ATS,ATC, or cab signals. People comment as to how train schedules are often longer than they were forty years ago. Apparently, the railroads knew that their engineers would exceed the ICC speed limits and created the schedules in accord. Now, I have the impression that almost every road enforces strict observance of the speed limits--and the schedules are written in accord.
Even in 1974, I had the impression that engineers running between Montgomery and Waycross (dark territory) ran faster than 59 mph. I was riding from Chicago to Fort Lauderdale, and we made a good bit of time up south and east of Montgomery.
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