It appears we will be going to the Bethlehem, Pa. area in late July.
Having never been to the Horseshoe Curve/Galitzen/Altoona area, other than thru on the Broadway Limited, where would you go to watch trains for a few hours, lets say as an overnight (evening/morning) spot?
This is not a railfan trip, but the fiance is sympathic....to an extent.
ed
Ed
I would say Cresson Pa might be your best bet.I know there is a tunnel inn at galitzin but the station inn is a little further from the tracks.Also the tunnel inn usually is full year round.Cesson you can watch helpers go out as they are waiting in the yard. We did a trip to all 3 spots a couple years ago.The crossroads restaurant is also good in cresson too.enjoy your trip.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Horseshoe Curve is simply the best trainwatching spot in the East. It is very easy to get to from Altoona. It is a very nice park with things to interest non railfans. Altoona also has their railroaders museum which is well worth the time. Altoona also has lodging in all price ranges. Every railfan should visit Horseshoe Curve at least once in their lives.
There is sympathetic and then there is understanding. You could get a room at the Station Inn and the two of you could sit on teh front porch enjoying the evening air and when she is tired or bored of it, she could head up to the room. Gallitzin, just up the road has a tourist centre and picnic area if you wanted to just stop for a couple hours and the Curve a little further up is much the same but more oriented towards the family. If you have never been to the curve you need to go to say you have been.
Depends on exactly what you're looking for. I pretty much agree with the other posts above - esp. that you have to go to Horseshoe Curve at least once in your lifetime.
Horseshoe Curve has the best ambiance, IMHO - out in the country, lots of sunshine and trees, good place to read a book or magazine while waiting for a train, restrooms when the Vistor's Center is open, etc. But the photo angles are poor - mainly from the inside only, without a lot of hiking or special arrangements. It's an ideal stage, with the trains entering from the wings - and I've always enjoyed it at sunset and at night, when the headlights sweeping around the mountains and off into the air, and the beams of light from the signal bridges, etc. can be very dramatic. But now - along with the enhancement of the funicular car to get from the parking lot up to the track level, instead of having to climb the 90 or 100 steps - it's been fenced in, and access up there may be prohibited when the Vistor's Center is not open - which this season is either 10 or 11 AM to 8 PM - see http://www.railroadcity.com/index.php?r=site/hours Since you specifically indicated evening/ morning, I'd call and check. The other thing is, those evening hours are usually when the Curve is busiest - it's often pretty quiet during the mid-day hours.
Gallitzin has its Tunnel Park - http://www.gallitzin.info/park.php - and The Tunnel Inn - http://www.thetunnelinn.com/ - and many photo angles, including some overhead bridges. The basic track layout there is something that seems like a portion of a model railroad in 1-to-1 scale - the EB and WB mains split at the east side of Tunnel Hill, and don't rejoin until west of Gallitzin, but are connected by a U-turn 'loop track' for the helpers from UN to AR right in the middle of Gallitzin. You can about walk along the EB main up until it enters the New Portage Tunnel. There are a couple of restaurants and gas station / convenience stores, nearby, too. If it was me, I would make Gallitzin my primary spot, esp. if access to the Curve is closed.
Cresson is similar to Gallitzin - it has The Station Inn http://www.stationinnpa.com/ - except there's not as good access to both sides of the tracks, or as many overhead bridges. It too has a 'Railroad Observation Platform' nest to the tracks - see http://www.cressonarea.com/attractions/ and the photo near the bottom of the page at http://www.stationinnpa.com/attract.php - and may have a bigger contingent of railfans with scanners and who know the area well enough to be able to tell you what might be happening soon, such as moves to or from the branchline that connects there.
Finally - although you didn't ask - be sure to set aside some time for train-watching in the Bethlehem area. The NS Lehigh Line main on the South Side is best, but a couple miles west you can drive along the Allentown Yard and sit and watch the action at the hump. And knowing your interests, you might want to drive into the fairly new Commerce Blvd. to the east from Rt. 412 into the old Beth. Steel plant and see what's going on at the Lehigh Valley Rail Management operation - RoadRailers, double-stacks, piggy-back, transload, general freight tream track operations, sidetracks, etc. - plus the old PBNE switchers. See - http://www.bethintermodal.com/locations/bethlehemfac.shtml
- Paul North.
MP173 Having never been to the Horseshoe Curve/Galitzen/Altoona area, other than thru on the Broadway Limited, where would you go to watch trains for a few hours, lets say as an overnight (evening/morning) spot?
I suppose it's a subjective item.....Personal likes and dislikes. The Tunnel Inn at {Gallitzin's}, Allegheny tunnel of course fits the bill by being right on the spot to witness activity as it exits and enters the tunnel. I don't know about how far ahead one has to make reservations though....
There is a 2nd tunnel elsewhere so some of the traffic must pass through it...Not visible from that location. At Gallitzin, the Allegheny Tunnel Inn spot, there is a bridge one can stand on and look right into the double track tunnel, and of course watch in the other direction of approaching trains to the tunnel. There is another {out of service tunnel at that location too}.
But....just a few miles from there you will find Horseshoe Curve. A great spot to witness activity all the way up and around the alignment as well as trains decending the grade....It is a very good spot to stop and railfan as the activity passes in front of you....and of course around both ends of the curve. Grade is stiff there {about 1.8%}, so trains are working hard to climb up and around towards the summit. And of course, watch the braking action for decending east bound consists.
The Horseshoe location has a good parking area along with facilities to see history of the location, {musuem, visitors center}, and things of RR interest. Also a "tram" type vehicle to hoist one up to track level. The "Funicular" is an incline plane vehicle that does that job.
I suppose if it was my choice between the two...I'd select "Horseshoe". But they are relatively close together....maybe you can see both.
Quentin
Tunnel Inn, Gallitzin, hands down. Have stayed there six times and all the creature comforts are there.
Station Inn NOT air-conditioned. Tunnel Inn, yes.
Tunnel Inn has private restrooms.
Tunnel Inn is the cleanest B&B we've ever stayed in.
The warm muffins and hot coffee at your door, plus the take-along goody basket are great touches.
Deck is right on top of old Pennsy main, and the crest of the climb is right in front of you. Scanner on deck, chimera proves warmth, and your room is less than 25 feet away. History museum across street, picnic area.
And DO read up on the history of the area before you go -- Altoona, Juniata, The Curve, the mining railroads, the Tunnels, Cresson... also take part of a day and go south to Cassandra Overlook for some great pictures.
I'd agree that the Tunnel Inn is a great place for 'total immersion' railfanning but it is very close to the tracks so don't expect much sleep if you are in one of the trackside rooms.
If you have the time you have to visit Horseshoe Curve, but I quite like Cassandra (a few miles west of Cresson) as a train-watching spot - away from busy highways, a pedestrian footbridge spanning the tracks and space for picnicing if the weather is decent (there are even benches to sit on).
Tony
What cannot be overstated is how great the area is for railfanning and that the whole choice is yours. NOR can it be overstated that you must go the the Railroaders Museum in Altoona. It gives a great perspective, not on motive power, equipment, and finances, but rather on the RAILROADERS themselves, the work they did, the lives they had on and off the job no matter what thier station in life. It is compelling in that you get a great perspective on what you see trackside today and in history books, too. There is a combination museum and Horseshoe Curve ticket, too, that will save a few bucks. As for your fiance, I would suggest a nice hotel away from the railroad is a good idea. I mean I don't think you should show her just how crazy you, and the rest of us, actually are!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Wow, big time responces....thanks.
First, what is the best reference on the web for the Altoona - Creston area? I recall Trains had a big article on HC about 6 years ago. I will dig it out.
Regarding accomodations...I made the mistake several years ago while staying in Flagstaff of staying adjacent to the BNSF. When it is time for sleep, I dont want to have trains a block away. My home is located with one mile of two major lines and with the windows open, I sleep well, however one block away is pretty close.
I can probably talk her into several outings...sounds as if the Curve is a must. I also want to see some tunnel action.
Are there any towers in operation in Altoona (Slope?)? Or if not in operation at least standing? I am a tower guy.
Allentown/Bethlehem area interests me as well. The area from A/B north on the former LV interests me, including the Staracca Viaduct up north. Dont know if that will be possible, with time constraints. I must remember the point of the trip is a visit with her father.
Oh, one more thing. What is the best way to get to Altoona coming from the west? We will take the Indiana and Ohio Turnpikes (I90) across to Pa. Is US 22 four lane? Or would you take the PA Turnpike to US 219 and then up? I have absolutely no problem driving on 2 lane highways thru small towns....just drove 270 such miles today.
Thanks,
MP173 It appears we will be going to the Bethlehem, Pa. area in late July. Having never been to the Horseshoe Curve/Galitzen/Altoona area, other than thru on the Broadway Limited, where would you go to watch trains for a few hours, lets say as an overnight (evening/morning) spot? This is not a railfan trip, but the fiance is sympathic....to an extent. ed
Haven't been over that way in about 5 years now, but have been there in 1985 (http://chatanuga.org/HC85.html), 2003 (http://chatanuga.org/HC03.html), and 2004 (http://chatanuga.org/HC04.html). If you decide to stay in the area, I'd recommend the Tunnel Inn in Gallitzin. It's very comfortable, and despite being close to the tracks, I had no trouble falling asleep. The deck outside overlooking tracks 2 and 3 is very nice for guests to gather, visit, and watch the trains. There's also a small stove on the deck for on chilly nights. The owners are also very helpful in their directions to different locations around the area. Also, if you are into history, a visit to the Allegheny Portage Railroad historic site just south of Gallitzin would be a good stop as well. At Cresson, there's a railfan deck in the park, which gives a good view down the tracks as well as the helper service area. In Altoona, there's the museum as well as several locations to watch trains and learn some history of the area.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
MP173 First, what is the best reference on the web for the Altoona - Creston area? I recall Trains had a big article on HC about 6 years ago. I will dig it out. Are there any towers in operation in Altoona (Slope?)? Or if not in operation at least standing? I am a tower guy. Oh, one more thing. What is the best way to get to Altoona coming from the west? We will take the Indiana and Ohio Turnpikes (I90) across to Pa. Is US 22 four lane? Or would you take the PA Turnpike to US 219 and then up? I have absolutely no problem driving on 2 lane highways thru small towns....just drove 270 such miles today.
There are some links that you might find helpful on my pages, in particular the 2003 and 2004 trips.
Alto is the only operating tower in that area, I believe. Slope has been gone for a while as well as MO in Cresson. AR is closed but visible from the street bridge over track 1. MG is standing but inaccessible.
Coming from the west, you'll want to get on US 22, which I believe is all 4-lane now.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
MP173 First, what is the best reference on the web for the Altoona - Creston area? I recall Trains had a big article on HC about 6 years ago. I will dig it out. [snip] Are there any towers in operation in Altoona (Slope?)? Or if not in operation at least standing? I am a tower guy. [snip] Oh, one more thing. What is the best way to get to Altoona coming from the west? We will take the Indiana and Ohio Turnpikes (I90) across to Pa. Is US 22 four lane? Or would you take the PA Turnpike to US 219 and then up? I have absolutely no problem driving on 2 lane highways thru small towns....just drove 270 such miles today.
[snip]
Well, I started on a response earlier in response to PoppaZit's suggestion, but somehow I lost it. So here goes again -
World's busiest mountain railroad Trains, April 1957 page 16 Pennsylvania between Altoona and Pittsburgh ( DIVISION, "MORGAN, DAVID P.", PRR, TRN )
Mountain Railroad Revisited Trains, January 1985 page 24 Conrail still puts 50-plus trains a day over the Alleghenies ( CR, DIVISION, "FRAILEY, FRED W.", HORSESHOE, PRR, TRN )
NRHS Horseshoe Curve Chapter ''Railfan's Guide to the Altoona Area'' at - http://www.trainweb.org/horseshoecurve-nrhs/Guide.htm
North East Rails at - http://www.northeast.railfan.net/horseshoe.html
and for the Gallitzin Tunnels at - http://www.northeast.railfan.net/gallitzin.html
S. Berliner, III's Horseshoe Curve 'Continuation Page 4' at - http://home.att.net/~berliner-ultrasonics/hshucrv4.html
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Fan/guide_altoona.html
Derrick Brashear's ''PRR Documents'' webpage, with many Time Tables and Track Charts, at - http://www.dementia.org/twiki/bin/view/PRR/PRRDocuments
Allegheny Portage Railroad National Historic Site Park at - http://www.nps.gov/alpo/
Roam around all of these sites, esp. the 1st one. Also the several sites and links that I posted earlier / above for the Railroader's Museum and the Inns, etc. Also do a search for ''Horseshoe Curve'', Gallitzin, Cresson, Altoona, etc.
I believe that ALTO Tower is still in operation. There are several towers still standing, though bricked-up - AR in Gallitzin, and MG in the middle of the woods between the Curve and Gallitzin come to mind. Check on RailPictures.Net for the latest photos and status - again, search using the above words.
But here's maybe the best for a 'Tower guy' - Mark D. Bej's webpage of scans of ''PRR Interlocking Diagrams - Altoona to Pittsburgh - Main Line'', which starts just west of Altoona at MG and continues on west with almost all of them, at - http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/itlk_alt_pgh_main.html
Unfortunately, on his page for Harrisburg to Altoona at - http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/itlk_har_alt_main.html - it appears that he doesn't have one yet for ALTO and SLOPE, or many of the others from Altoona to the east. They may be elsewhere on the web, though. For example, see - http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/1954/sta_pitt_main.php
US 22 from Pittsburgh to Altoona is a 'Major Through Traffic Route', mostly but not necessarily 4 lanes, and mostly divided. However, it is likely to be congested for a good ways outside of Pittsburgh. If time is a factor or at night, I would take the PA Turnpike as far east as Bedford, then I-99 [U.S. 220] straight up to Altoona. If daylight and time is less of a concern, then yes, PA Turnpike to Somerset, then U.S. 219 north through Johnstown to Ebensburg / Nanty Glo, then 22 East through Cresson and past Gallitzin anyway to Altoona. Better yet, see what Quentin/ modelcar has to say about this - he's from out that way.
MP173 Are there any towers in operation in Altoona (Slope?)? Or if not in operation at least standing? I am a tower guy.
Almost forgot about this one - for you, it would be a 'DON'T MISS' - about a year ago NRHS - Harrisburg Chapter reopened its restored PRR 'HARRIS' Tower - complete with a one-of-a-kind 'operable' interlocking machine and 'model board'. It's open most summer Saturdays from 10 AM to 4 PM - see and click on the link at -
http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/
And on the way, HUNT Tower in Huntington, PA -see - http://prr.railfan.net/photos/HuntTower_EdKaspriske_90825_12.jpg and
http://www.bullsheet.com/news/prt-huntpa-photo.html - says open on summer Fri., Sat., and Sun.
http://www.huntingdonheritage.org/hunt_co_tran_soc.asp - says open Weds. - Sun. 11 AM to 4 PM.
http://www.museumstuff.com/rec/org_20020201_13545.php
Ed --
To spend just a few hours in the Altoona/Horseshoe Curve/Gallitzin/Cresson area is like going on a four-hour honeymoon. I've spent 4-5 days there and still went home wanting for more.
To be honest, and everyone has their own needs, the accomodations at the Tunnel Inn (TV in every room, A/C) is like a luxury hotel. The Station Inn (no A/C, no in-room TVs last time I was there) is one notch above camping. Depends on how much you want to pay. I guess. I've met people who told me they paid to park in the rear of the Station Inn and slept in their vans. I think Station Inn still sells booze in its lounge.
Tunnel Inn does not have phones in the rooms, so make sure you take a cell.
Come in on the Turnpike. Stay at a hotel in downtown Altoona. See Horseshoe Curve and The Railroaders' Museum. Starrucca, Tunkhannunk, et al, are a good four to five hours away, so foreget about it. Visit her father, and go back west via Rt 22 if you have the time, visiting Gallitzen and Cresson on the way.
Horseshoe Curve, Gallitzin, and Cresson are all fairly close to each other so if you have a little time you can actually spend some time at all of them and see which you prefer. They all have their attributes. If you stay somewhere and choose the Tunnel Inn, just keep in mind that you miss some trains there that go down the other line.
Paul_D_North_Jr US 22 from Pittsburgh to Altoona is a 'Major Through Traffic Route', mostly but not necessarily 4 lanes, and mostly divided. However, it is likely to be congested for a good ways outside of Pittsburgh. If time is a factor or at night, I would take the PA Turnpike as far east as Bedford, then I-99 [U.S. 220] straight up to Altoona. If daylight and time is less of a concern, then yes, PA Turnpike to Somerset, then U.S. 219 north through Johnstown to Ebensburg / Nanty Glo, then 22 East through Cresson and past Gallitzin anyway to Altoona. Better yet, see what Quentin/ modelcar has to say about this - he's from out that way. -
-
Yes, and I agree with above from Paul....I think I would get off the Pennsy turnpike at Somerset...{our home is 10 mi. north of there}, and go northwest out of Somerset a few miles {left on 601 when you come down turnpike exit} and then to 219 route north...That is built just like an interstate and on over to rt. 22. That puts you going past and near to the places we've been talking about on your way to Altoona via rt. 22.
Ed, Just a comment...You really do miss some NS traffic at Gallitzin because there is another tunnel and it's not in sight there at the Tunnel Inn area....{Allegheny tunnel is there}....and double tracked.
henry6 [snip] Starrucca, Tunkhannunk, et al, are a good four to five hours away, so foreget about it. [snip]
henry6 is right about that, at least going there directly from Altoona (it never worked well for me). I'd go there from Bethlehem instead - 2 hours right up I-476, I-81, and U.S. 11 to the Tunkhannock Viaduct in Nicholson, PA, and then maybe another 1/2 hour on country roads to the Starrucca Viaduct in Lanesboro, PA, then back via I-81, etc.
Since you would go by/ through Scranton each way, consider adding in a stop at the Steamtown NHP site, or maybe something else that strikes your fancy. For example, you could come back via I-380, I-80, and PA 33 and stop in Nazareth and tour the C.F. Martin Guitar Co. there as well . . .
A word on driving US 22 from Pittsburgh to Altoona from someone from Minnesota. Allow your self enough time. US 22 is very hilly even on the stretches that are 4 lane. I drove this in 1992 and again in 2000. The distance from Pittsburgh to Altoona on US 22 is deceptive on a map. We midwesterners used to flat straight roads; US 22 is a bit of shock. Follow the advice of the guys from Pennsylvania about getting there and have fun at Horseshoe Curve. Also,watch your speed on US 22, the State Police are out in force.
Paul_D_North_Jr [Since you would go by/ through Scranton each way, consider adding in a stop at the Steamtown NHP site, or maybe something else that strikes your fancy. For example, you could come back via I-380, I-80, and PA 33 and stop in Nazareth and tour the C.F. Martin Guitar Co. there as well . . . - Paul North.
[Since you would go by/ through Scranton each way, consider adding in a stop at the Steamtown NHP site, or maybe something else that strikes your fancy. For example, you could come back via I-380, I-80, and PA 33 and stop in Nazareth and tour the C.F. Martin Guitar Co. there as well . . .
Steamtown is not a stop but rather a layover point!
Martin Guitar sounds like a great stop. There was an article on them last week in the WSJ. They have a much cheaper ($1000) guitar out for the recession.
There seems to be quite a bit here to do. I am narrowing things down on the west side to Cassandra, AR Tower, Tunnelhill overview and attempting to find MG Tower. Is it still standing?
HC is a must stop and Alto Tower.
By then we should boogie on down to Bethlehem for a nice time with Bob and Jane, then contemplate the return trip. How far is Martin Guitar from Bethlehem?
One more question, and by the way, many thanks to all who contributed, particularly those who emailed suggestions.
How difficult is it to take photos outside the curve? The truly great photos from HC are (mostly) taken on the outside. One source indicated "fire roads". Has anyone used those? Driveable or does one hike in?
.....I'm not a great authority on the subject, but suggest that should not be attempted. Rugged terrain on the outside of the Curve and of course restricted territory up close....NS probably would not take too kindly to anyone attempting that without permission.
One should also know the area can be populated with poisonous things on the ground in the Summertime in that rugged area.
You are right, Modelcar...there is plenty to do around the area. No need making a bad decision.
The area is very rugged and well snaked. Unless you really know the area, don't go off allowed paths and properties. It is also very grown over from the days of the classic pictures. Most all of the property is private and posted.
You guys have talked me off of the ledge. The term snakes pretty well did it, particularly those which rattle.
There should be plenty of public access safe type locations.
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